Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: How the Deficit Got This Big????


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:02:46 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		Or, to borrow words from the Wall Street Journal since it was just put it so well:

"In the late 1990s, the government was running what it -- and a largely unquestioning Washington press corps -- called budget "surpluses." But the national debt still increased in every single one of those years because the government was borrowing money to create the "surpluses."

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:05:44 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Curious. You state this...

quote:

Well the discrepancy is pretty easy to explain; the CBO's numbers don't show all the sources of debt we took on, where the Treasury Department's numbers do.


Yet Figure F3 of the site I gave you...

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10871/HistoricalTables.pdf

Lists the following as revenues...

Revenues by Major Source, 1970 to 2009, in Billions of Dollars

Individual Income tax
Corporate Income tax
Social Insurance Tax
Excise Tax
Estate and Gift Taxes
Custom Duties
Miscellaneous Receipts

Where are the added sources of revenue from extra Debt?


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:06:57 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		One should take into account that bush put most of the money spent/wasted in Iraq, off the books.


http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/02/weighing-the-ir/

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 9/14/2011 6:07:19 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:13:00 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Where are the added sources of revenue from extra Debt?



The use of borrowed money from intragovernment funds to pay off public debt. That borrowed money is still an obligation that needs paid back.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:13:55 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Nope... They show a surplus before the intragovernment funds come into play.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:17:18 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		No, they're just not showing the intragovernmental borrowing.

That "Revenues" column already includes it in it's total, nicely hidden.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 9/14/2011 6:18:14 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:23:18 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

partisan?? Using the CBO figures is partisan??? Treasury figures are partisan? WTFF, but your resource is *shivers* da trufe?

There is war spending in Bush column, where is Obama war spending?  

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:24:09 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		That "Revenues" column already includes it in it's total, nicely hidden

Yet you haven't shown me where its "nicely hidden".

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:31:00 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

partisan?? Using the CBO figures is partisan??? Treasury figures are partisan? WTFF, but your resource is *shivers* da trufe?

There is war spending in Bush column, where is Obama war spending?  


Did you miss the defense column????IM sposing its in that figure
so....
now whats partisan???


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Fellow)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:34:05 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

That "Revenues" column already includes it in it's total, nicely hidden

Yet you haven't shown me where its "nicely hidden".


Well, you already know that SS tax is included in the Revenue column, as you said above.

What happens is (and I'm cut/pasting some of this because others have already explained it quite well):

Social Security is legally required to use all its surpluses to buy U.S. Government securities. From Social Security's standpoint, it has a multi-trillion dollar reserve in the form of U.S. Government securities. When the Social Security system starts to falter due to insufficient contributions to pay for all the benefits of retiring baby-boomers, it will start cashing those securities and will expect the U.S. Government to pay it back, with interest. The problem is, the government doesn't have the money. The money has already been spent--in part, effectively, to pay down the public debt under Clinton.

The CBO doesn't mention that part though, it just tosses SS money as part of the "Revenue" column for use in regular government operations.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:36:10 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

partisan?? Using the CBO figures is partisan??? Treasury figures are partisan? WTFF, but your resource is *shivers* da trufe?

There is war spending in Bush column, where is Obama war spending?  


Did you miss the defense column????IM sposing its in that figure
so....
now whats partisan???



It's not though, he does have a point there. The total cost for those wars listed under Bush do include the ongoing wars under Obama. Still, Obama's part in that is small compared to Bush's part, but it's one minor inaccuracy to the chart.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:40:55 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Table F9

outlay

1999 900.0



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:41:58 PM   
MasterBurg


Posts: 1
Joined: 2/22/2011
Status: offline 		The thing is that if republicans are reality challenged, what does that make a democrat who falsely makes the claim that tax cuts are a "Cost"?  I personally believe that we will continue on our downward trend until and unless we all have a nice deep honest debate about the downsides of Democrat Policy.

(in reply to MileHighM)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:42:30 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		To quote Obama's pal the rev. Wright, 'our chickens have come home to roost'.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:43:44 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		Also, looking further at the CBO's numbers, look a the "Surplus" for 1998, it shows 69.3 billion. So if that's the actual surplus, looking at the 1997 debt of $3,772.3 billion and apply it, you would think the new debt would be $3,703 billion...instead the CBO shows a debt of $3,721.1 billion, indicating a "surplus" of only $51.2 billion.

That there should be enough to tell you the CBO isn't telling the full story.

The indisputable fact still remains: During the Clinton years, the total national debt increased every year. Only in Washington D.C. would that somehow be considered a "surplus."

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 9/14/2011 6:46:22 PM >

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:43:49 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Id like a link then please, because the first graph does have a column with the figure in "the black", so please feel free to provide the figures stating otherwise.
As its the only column in the black(126 billion), its marked "savings" it has to be there for a reason.


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:43:53 PM   
starphase


Posts: 1
Joined: 9/14/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

To quote Obama's pal the rev. Wright, 'our chickens have come home to roost'.


Can we sell those chickens to pay off some of our debt?

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:48:12 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBurg

The thing is that if republicans are reality challenged, what does that make a democrat who falsely makes the claim that tax cuts are a "Cost"?  I personally believe that we will continue on our downward trend until and unless we all have a nice deep honest debate about the downsides of Democrat Policy.


Tax cuts are a cost.

They have to be offset with other moneys.

We`ve had enough of the fuzzy math and make pretend.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to MasterBurg)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:51:01 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Id like a link then please, because the first graph does have a column with the figure in "the black", so please feel free to provide the figures stating otherwise.


What I was referring to, is the chart shows the cost of war under the Bush column as $1.469 trillion. There are varying sites with varying estimates, but this one for instance: http://costofwar.com/en/ shows a cost of 1.2 trillion from 2001 until now. And since Obama has seemingly been glad to continue those military operations, it does seem a little unfair to include the entire number in the Bush column.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 6:51:10 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBurg

The thing is that if republicans are reality challenged, what does that make a democrat who falsely makes the claim that tax cuts are a "Cost"?  I personally believe that we will continue on our downward trend until and unless we all have a nice deep honest debate about the downsides of Democrat Policy.


first we have to find some honest republicans.
They are in extremely short supply on this part of board. VERY short supply


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to MasterBurg)
Profile   Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094