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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/15/2011 11:27:42 AM   
DesFIP


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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		You don't get it, damn near everybody thinks what they do is normal and it's only those who do what they don't who have issues. Besides, just where do you draw the line?

If a monogamous guy ties his wife's hands to the bedpost with a couple of scarves before giving her some light spanking - is that kinky? Who makes the determination? There's no board of certification here. The phrase 'slap & tickle' is commonly used to refer to sex which indicates that spanking is pretty ho-hum.


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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/15/2011 11:40:13 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

FR

The whole thing where someone asks people what their fantasies are and then, once they're a bit further along than the person was expecting, says 'oh you're one of us and you didn't even know it!' is beyond patronising. Personal sexualities are rich and complex. That doesn't mean they're kinky, it means you've decided what their fantasies should be in order for them to be vanilla people, and you're finding that your expectations don't match the reality. It's not the reality that 'doesn't know' what it is, it's your expectations that are out of whack.

Do you know how many women have rape fantasies? The studies I've seen have put it at 40-60%. Does that mean rape is 'embedded in us and are completely natural versus just a fetish'?

No? Didn't think so. So what makes power exchange fantasies different from rape fantasies, other than that the idea of one being embedded in us is abhorrent and the other fits how you'd like the world to be? Can you see an actual logical difference between the two constructs? Because I can't.




See, now that's what I call perspicacity. (And I'm *not* saying you're sweaty, hon - though I have nothing at all against women being sweaty. )

It was once said, 'We're all socialists now'. Later it was said, 'We're all greens now'. One day, maybe, someone will say, 'We're all kinksters now'.

I want to coin a new word: Vaninkster. Yes! I got it first. It is copyrighted.


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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/15/2011 2:27:12 PM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoveSparkie
I'm beginning to think the sub/dom roles are just embedded in us and are completely natural versus just a fetish.


While I agree that basic dom/sub characteristics tend to be embedded in many of us the dividing line is between those who act on it and those who do not. How many of your friends are actually interested in pursuing it? Everybody has fantasies.


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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/15/2011 2:36:54 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

You don't get it, damn near everybody thinks what they do is normal
I don't. I am quite certain that the stuff we get up to around here is anything but "normal".
quote:

it's only those who do what they don't who have issues
I disagree, I don't have any issues about it, I am a sick little pervert and I'm perfectly OK with that. In my opinion, it is the people who try to tell themselves that this stuff is normal who have the issues.

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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/15/2011 10:15:53 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoveSparkie

Has anyone else ever experienced someone who claimed to have a "normal" sexual appetite/to be "vanilla", but after divulging in their fantasies realizes they really want to play out sub/dom roles?



Oh yeah... and I absolutely laughed my fucking ass off when she'd told me about some dude that was really "dominant" and "controlling" with her in the sack and how she loved it.



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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/15/2011 11:53:14 PM   
Winterapple


Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline 		Cliff diving in Acapulco sounds exciting, looks beautiful and I
can totally see myself doing it. That is til I find myself in Acapulco
on a cliff overlooking the water. Then I remember I hate heights,
can barely swim and generally avoid death.
For any number of people with fantasies as soon as the bare hand hits
the bare bottom the rubber would hit the road.

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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/16/2011 12:03:41 AM   
hangemhigh1953


Posts: 245
Joined: 7/8/2011
Status: offline 		True story: one of my brother's favorite activities is to sneak up on me when I'm lying on the couch watching tv and tie me up, then beat me with a pillow. Sometimes he even commands me to do things under the threat of pillow whipping. He's told me in the past that bondage and sadomasochism are a turn off for him, but I'm really skeptical of that.

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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/16/2011 3:54:36 AM   
Tristan


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quote:

I have long thought that most aspects of BDSM, especially D/s, sub/dom roles are quite normal and natural to us all, and the Vanillas simply follow societal programming better, and so reject, deny, sublimate, ignore or suppress such feelings or relegate them only to fantasy, making such Vanillas frequently quite "touchy" about the subject, lol.


I agree with the statement above.  It seems to me that some form of D/s is ingrained in most of us.  Isn't chivalry a form of D/s or power exchange? 

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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/16/2011 4:24:07 AM   
ProlificNeeds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tristan

I agree with the statement above.  It seems to me that some form of D/s is ingrained in most of us.  Isn't chivalry a form of D/s or power exchange? 



No, chivalry was a specific behavioral code, it had nothing to do with power exchange or what someone wanted, it had to do with an ancient form of honor in society observed by following set traditional behavior. Almost a pseudo religion really in some ways.

If you qualify obeying God as D/s then maaaaybe, but chivalry as far as I know did not require the recognition of god only the conformity of self to certain behaviors and ideals.

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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/16/2011 6:02:35 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
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From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather


quote:

it's only those who do what they don't who have issues
I disagree, I don't have any issues about it, I am a sick little pervert and I'm perfectly OK with that. In my opinion, it is the people who try to tell themselves that this stuff is normal who have the issues.


If you really felt that what you were doing was wrong, you would be nearly paralyzed by guilt and shame. Obviously you don't have the conflicts you claim to have.

And I apologize for being unclear. What I do is normal for me, when someone else does something much more extreme, that's when I look askance.

But the dividing line between vanilla and kink is mutable depending upon the individual.
As a rule, however, using a feather is vanilla. Using the whole chicken is kinky. For those who must have a permanent division in order to neatly label everyone else, I suggest this one.


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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/16/2011 6:05:57 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
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From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds





No, chivalry was a specific behavioral code, it had nothing to do with power exchange or what someone wanted, it had to do with an ancient form of honor in society observed by following set traditional behavior. Almost a pseudo religion really in some ways.

If you qualify obeying God as D/s then maaaaybe, but chivalry as far as I know did not require the recognition of god only the conformity of self to certain behaviors and ideals.


But many people adopt their own personal code of honor as regards to D/s, and I believe this is what Tristan was trying to say.




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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/16/2011 7:16:21 AM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds





No, chivalry was a specific behavioral code, it had nothing to do with power exchange or what someone wanted, it had to do with an ancient form of honor in society observed by following set traditional behavior. Almost a pseudo religion really in some ways.

If you qualify obeying God as D/s then maaaaybe, but chivalry as far as I know did not require the recognition of god only the conformity of self to certain behaviors and ideals.


But many people adopt their own personal code of honor as regards to D/s, and I believe this is what Tristan was trying to say.





Many people not into D/s also adopt a personal code of honor or conduct, I fail to see how the two are related.

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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/16/2011 7:32:15 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Many groups have developed their own honor code: from the Shriners and the Free Mason's to the the Samurai and Native American warrior codes. It seems to be a thing (mostly male) groups do.

I don't think it has a thing to do with dominance or submission. It does have to do with adhering to a strong code of conduct, and many individuals (BDSM involved or not) have created their own.

I wasn't making any other point or correlation beyond that.







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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/16/2011 8:52:40 AM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		FR to Chatte:
Definitely, but I was specifically responding to "Isn't chivalry a form of D/s or power exchange?" from Tristan.

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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/16/2011 9:23:01 AM   
Aresidora


Posts: 39
Joined: 10/11/2010
From: Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline 		lmao! That reminds me of when I was a kid growing up. I was declared the supreme ruler of the universe because I could inflict such torture with a towel snap. I also made it a point to learn the most stinging slap possible -(ya'll know what Im talkin about - the finger mark welts with just one whack) That makes be think I was just wired this way, if I were forced to change myself then out of deprivation I 'd probably be more of a perv - if thats even possibile. btw -I still hold that title cuz this mama can still wield a mean dish towel. I just advanced to a flogger & crop as I got older ;)

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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/16/2011 1:09:55 PM   
Djducati


Posts: 84
Joined: 9/15/2011
Status: offline 		It is definately a lifestyle choice but I strongly believe certain aspects of it are just naturally born into us. In the case of myself, I avoided being too kinky despite my personal urges. Some things just come naturally, and when I finally freed myself of those self imposed restraints and picked up PHYSICAL restraints with a willing sub for the first time I realized a whole new level of pleasure and satisfaction, because I am not holding back, letting the energy flow as it will, and it is not just liberating it feels right and perfectly normal. For all that time I was shying away from what I felt was derogatory but I realized what some see as degrading makes others get off at an extreme level of satisfaction.
i cant imagine being any other way now, who wants to close a freed mind?

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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/16/2011 3:19:14 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

If you really felt that what you were doing was wrong, you would be nearly paralyzed by guilt and shame. Obviously you don't have the conflicts you claim to have.


Since when are all people who feel that what they are doing is wrong paralysed by guilt and shame?

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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/16/2011 3:43:37 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds

No, chivalry was a specific behavioral code, it had nothing to do with power exchange or what someone wanted, it had to do with an ancient form of honor in society observed by following set traditional behavior. Almost a pseudo religion really in some ways.



I've heard similar. However, of course the word's taken on a different meaning, now.

I'm not quite sure that it now implies 'power exchange', as such, but it does imply a certain way of acting that implies, roughly, an assumption of the female as somewhat fragile but infinitely valuable object, while the male is her defender and protector and would lay down his life for her. And stuff.

Well, whatever. At any rate, I know that some femdoms and malesubs who've written here have been quite taken with the idea and have compared femdom/malesub to some modern version of Lady/knight. It has at least a bit of mileage for me, too, I'll admit.


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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/16/2011 4:19:03 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		The Lady/Knight archetype most closely fis the relationship I seek. "Chivalry" is definitely a word that has changed meaning over the centuries! Those knights errant were essentially thugs, and the notions of chivalry were set in place as controls.

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RE: Vanilla's that don't know their into Kink?? - 9/16/2011 4:23:53 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Not that I'm *entirely* a savage otherwise but, you know, it's funny how it comes on for me with the clothing. A suit or a tux, and I'm an instant Rex Harrison. I even belch in Latin.

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