RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt

RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (Full Version)

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tj444 -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/21/2011 5:53:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin And that is a problem the medical profession say is happening in the UK, the importation of foreign medical staff poses a risk to life and that because no matter what a person's professional creditations say, they are no use to anyone if they fail in basic communication. Language barriers are a real problem, but if cheap or even affordable medical care means these people, then that is the way it will have to be if one wants affordable medical care, bear it or not, because money talks. As it is, my dentist is from Eastern Europe and though she does try to communicate, the practice employs an interpreter to convey basic information. hmmm, well, i simply wouldnt go to a dentist, doctor, etc that could not communicate with me easily. i know with the EU and many people from other countries coming to the UK, that you have a lot of legal immigrants there but i had no idea it was like that... I would find that very scary.. If i move to a country that is not english speaking, then i expect to learn their language (fluently) asap. Imo, its stupid not to.

tj444 -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/21/2011 5:59:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Never heard of kick backs, huh. There is so much beneath that surface. You may want to research that a bit more. If you really care to know instead of assuming. What is your proof? links regarding kick backs? If there are kick backs then someone pays, I cant see businesses hiring those students if they end up costing more than the locals. I certainly wouldnt.

tazzygirl -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/21/2011 6:31:59 PM)
1. Seasonal Exchange Students Can Work for the Entire Season. The Work and Travel Program lets foreign student workers spend more time working than US students. Employers don't have to worry about their seasonal staff leaving too soon. 2. It is Economical for Businesses. It is absolutely free for the employer. There are also no Medicare, Social Security, or Unemployment contributions required. All of the seasonal workers have prepaid insurance. 3. It Diversifies the Workplace. A wonderful combination of strong English skills, a desire to learn and communicate, and a valuable cultural background – isn’t it great? Exchange students will enrich your workspace atmosphere for sure! 4. It’s the Perfect Choice!!! All the applicants are pre-screened, pre-qualified and selected. They sign a contract which ensures full commitment and understanding all the job requirements. Moreover, they are willing to learn about the United States, the culture, and the business. http://hirestaff.org/benefits Now, compare that to the following... Taxation Taxation of income earned by J-1 visitors varies according to the specific category the visitor was admitted under; the visitor's country of origin; and the duration of the visitor's stay in the United States. J-1 visitors whose governments have a tax treaty with the United States may be exempt Social Security and Medicare taxes for up to five years. J-1 researchers may be exempt for up to 18 months http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-1_visa

tj444 -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/21/2011 10:14:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl 1. Seasonal Exchange Students Can Work for the Entire Season. The Work and Travel Program lets foreign student workers spend more time working than US students. Employers don't have to worry about their seasonal staff leaving too soon. 2. It is Economical for Businesses. It is absolutely free for the employer. There are also no Medicare, Social Security, or Unemployment contributions required. All of the seasonal workers have prepaid insurance. 3. It Diversifies the Workplace. A wonderful combination of strong English skills, a desire to learn and communicate, and a valuable cultural background – isn’t it great? Exchange students will enrich your workspace atmosphere for sure! 4. It’s the Perfect Choice!!! All the applicants are pre-screened, pre-qualified and selected. They sign a contract which ensures full commitment and understanding all the job requirements. Moreover, they are willing to learn about the United States, the culture, and the business. http://hirestaff.org/benefits Now, compare that to the following... Taxation Taxation of income earned by J-1 visitors varies according to the specific category the visitor was admitted under; the visitor's country of origin; and the duration of the visitor's stay in the United States. J-1 visitors whose governments have a tax treaty with the United States may be exempt Social Security and Medicare taxes for up to five years. J-1 researchers may be exempt for up to 18 months http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-1_visa I dont see anything about kick backs in that. Why would a short term worker pay social security, UI or any of the other stuff? Especially if they are only in the US for a few months.. And if its part of the tax treaty i would expect it works in reverse too. If its all being done according to the rules/law then its legal and nothing wrong with it. The students also pay a lot of $$ to get that job, the US govt gets their cut too. That one guy paid $3,000 if i recall correctly from the article. For many it just pays for their trip, the visa fees, the plane ticket, etc etc. Its not like most are gonna get unjustly rich from it..

tazzygirl -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/21/2011 10:24:40 PM)
We arent talking about the immigrants getting rich or not. Dont know where you got that from.

tj444 -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/21/2011 10:49:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl We arent talking about the immigrants getting rich or not. Dont know where you got that from. I was being sarcastic, its just a working holiday for most of them. American students go to other countries to do the very same thing... they want to see the world too. But i get it, its ok for US students to do that but none to come to the US.. (noted) I still dont see anything about those supposed kick backs.

tazzygirl -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/21/2011 11:12:44 PM)
First, this whole conversation is in relationship to the unemployment level in the US. People here cant get work but, for you, its ok to bring them in from other countries? I suppose you could hold that stance... just dont hold it too vocally around the unemployed. As far as the problems and exploitation around Student visas... http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13882319 Federal auditors have criticized the department for years for depending on sponsors, some of whom make millions of dollars off J-1 students, to oversee the program and investigate complaints. Yet the new regulations would require little or no direct oversight by State Department employees, leaving sponsors free to continue policing themselves and their partners. Students visiting under J-1 visas make ideal victims since they are here temporarily and may not know how to seek help. An Associated Press investigation published six months ago found that many participants paid thousands of dollars to come to the U.S., only to learn the jobs they were promised didn't exist. Some had to share beds in crowded houses or apartments, charged so much for lodging and transportation that they took home no pay. Others turned to the sex industry, while some sought help from homeless shelters. But the department also acknowledged that no Summer Work Travel sponsor has ever been removed from the program for its treatment of students, despite years of complaints of exploitation and deplorable living and working conditions, according to documents obtained by the AP. And only a few sponsors have ever been reprimanded, according to the State Department. Participation has increased dramatically over the last decade, but so have the problems. In one of the worst cases unearthed by the AP, at least two J-1 students from Ukraine were beaten and forced to work in strip clubs in Detroit. One said she was raped by her captors. "This is a dangerous program because the State Department has outsourced its oversight role to the program sponsors and employers who hire the participants," said Daniel Costa, an immigration policy analyst who is working on the Economic Policy Institute's report. Yet the AP found that while law enforcement and others had complained to the State Department for years about abuse in the J-1 program, the agency didn't start tracking complaints until last year — after the AP asked for the documents in a Freedom of Information Act request. Once the agency began keeping a log of complaints, the list quickly grew into the dozens, according to documents the AP obtained through the Freedom of Information Act The AP investigation found abuse of hundreds of students in more than a dozen states. More recently, the AP obtained emails between several Thai students and their sponsoring organization, the International YMCA, based in New York. The emails said 12 foreign students were each paying $400 a month — a total of $4,800— to live in the Florida Panhandle in a mobile home infested with cockroaches and rodents. The Thai students complained to U.S. Rep. Jeff Miller, R-Fla., saying they were afraid of a third-party labor broker, Ivan Lukin, who arranged for their housing and jobs. They said Lukin threatened them with deportation when they complained, and that the State Department and the International YMCA did little to help them. "We are afraid of Mr. Lukin and fear for our personal safety, but the YMCA has dismissed our concerns, even after we have informed them of our fears," one of the students wrote to Miller. When the AP asked about Lukin, the State Department said in an email the agency cuts ties with people or businesses that violate established procedures. Yet Florida police warned the State Department as far back as 2007 that Lukin was subjecting students to crowded living conditions in violation of housing codes, according to emails obtained by the AP. There also were concerns the students weren't being paid. Enough proof for you?

tj444 -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/21/2011 11:32:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl First, this whole conversation is in relationship to the unemployment level in the US. People here cant get work but, for you, its ok to bring them in from other countries? I suppose you could hold that stance... just dont hold it too vocally around the unemployed. As far as the problems and exploitation around Student visas... http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13882319 Federal auditors have criticized the department for years for depending on sponsors, some of whom make millions of dollars off J-1 students, to oversee the program and investigate complaints. Yet the new regulations would require little or no direct oversight by State Department employees, leaving sponsors free to continue policing themselves and their partners. Students visiting under J-1 visas make ideal victims since they are here temporarily and may not know how to seek help. An Associated Press investigation published six months ago found that many participants paid thousands of dollars to come to the U.S., only to learn the jobs they were promised didn't exist. Some had to share beds in crowded houses or apartments, charged so much for lodging and transportation that they took home no pay. Others turned to the sex industry, while some sought help from homeless shelters. But the department also acknowledged that no Summer Work Travel sponsor has ever been removed from the program for its treatment of students, despite years of complaints of exploitation and deplorable living and working conditions, according to documents obtained by the AP. And only a few sponsors have ever been reprimanded, according to the State Department. Participation has increased dramatically over the last decade, but so have the problems. In one of the worst cases unearthed by the AP, at least two J-1 students from Ukraine were beaten and forced to work in strip clubs in Detroit. One said she was raped by her captors. "This is a dangerous program because the State Department has outsourced its oversight role to the program sponsors and employers who hire the participants," said Daniel Costa, an immigration policy analyst who is working on the Economic Policy Institute's report. Yet the AP found that while law enforcement and others had complained to the State Department for years about abuse in the J-1 program, the agency didn't start tracking complaints until last year — after the AP asked for the documents in a Freedom of Information Act request. Once the agency began keeping a log of complaints, the list quickly grew into the dozens, according to documents the AP obtained through the Freedom of Information Act The AP investigation found abuse of hundreds of students in more than a dozen states. More recently, the AP obtained emails between several Thai students and their sponsoring organization, the International YMCA, based in New York. The emails said 12 foreign students were each paying $400 a month — a total of $4,800— to live in the Florida Panhandle in a mobile home infested with cockroaches and rodents. The Thai students complained to U.S. Rep. Jeff Miller, R-Fla., saying they were afraid of a third-party labor broker, Ivan Lukin, who arranged for their housing and jobs. They said Lukin threatened them with deportation when they complained, and that the State Department and the International YMCA did little to help them. "We are afraid of Mr. Lukin and fear for our personal safety, but the YMCA has dismissed our concerns, even after we have informed them of our fears," one of the students wrote to Miller. When the AP asked about Lukin, the State Department said in an email the agency cuts ties with people or businesses that violate established procedures. Yet Florida police warned the State Department as far back as 2007 that Lukin was subjecting students to crowded living conditions in violation of housing codes, according to emails obtained by the AP. There also were concerns the students weren't being paid. Enough proof for you? Proof of what? Students get exploited, yes, that does happen, this is not the first time i have heard that, just like lots of other legal immigrant workers do. It shouldnt happen but it does, unfortunately, and the govt should do more to stop it, especially since they are charging those students for the visas. I guess the solution to the exploitation is to not allow students in the US to work.. no students = no exploitation.. ok, got that too now.. [8\|] And again, US students go to other countries and work there taking jobs there too, its part of the treaties between each country.. so students from those countries can come to the US as well. I still dont see anything there about kick backs. [8\|]

tazzygirl -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/21/2011 11:36:09 PM)
[8\|] Lets see, they have to have jobs to get the Visas.. yet get here with no jobs lined up. Now, what employer is signing off on these nonexistent jobs? And what is that employer benefiting from signing off on those nonexistent job? I mean, honestly, its not rocket science to figure out.

tj444 -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/21/2011 11:53:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl [8\|] Lets see, they have to have jobs to get the Visas.. yet get here with no jobs lined up. Now, what employer is signing off on these nonexistent jobs? And what is that employer benefiting from signing off on those nonexistent job? I mean, honestly, its not rocket science to figure out. What non-existant jobs? It said in the first article, the students interview with the agency and then do a web interview with the prospective employer. That is how they get the jobs required to get the visas.. you are right, its not rocket science... [8\|]

tazzygirl -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/22/2011 12:09:49 AM)
An Associated Press investigation published six months ago found that many participants paid thousands of dollars to come to the U.S., only to learn the jobs they were promised didn't exist.

tj444 -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/22/2011 8:04:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl An Associated Press investigation published six months ago found that many participants paid thousands of dollars to come to the U.S., only to learn the jobs they were promised didn't exist. They should get their money back if that happens but again, the govt should be doing more for them and to regulate the agencies. Of course it doesnt say where those agencies are located, if its in their home country and its a scam by those companies, its just like girls that think they are coming to the US to work as a nanny and find out that they have been sold into the sex slave trade. You have to deal with a reputable company no matter where in the US or rest of the world. That is outright theft and not kick backs tho and it doesnt mean that students shouldnt be allowed to come to the US and vice versa. It just means the US should regulate those agencies a lot better.

tazzygirl -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/22/2011 9:19:36 AM)
kick·back [kik-bak] Show IPA noun 1. a percentage of income given to a person in a position of power or influence as payment for having made the income possible: usually considered improper or unethical. 2. a rebate, usually given secretively by a seller to a buyer or to one who influenced the buyer. 3. the practice of an employer or a person in a supervisory position of taking back a portion of the wages due workers. 4. a response, usually vigorous. 5. a sudden, uncontrolled movement of a machine, tool, or other device, as on starting or in striking an obstruction: A kickback from a chain saw can be dangerous. Both of which were pointed out in the article.

tj444 -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/22/2011 9:50:42 AM)
Again.. The scam companies that charge students and didnt provide jobs, they obviously didnt even apply for visas or use that $ to pay for plane tickets, they were outright scams and nothing to do with the legitimate J-1 visa program Kick back? According to your "definition", what temporary employment agency doesnt take part of an employees wages as their fee? Geeze, they are in business to make money after all. Labor Ready- might charge an employer $18/hr for a worker and they turn around and pay that worker $10/hr. Its totally legal in the US if you hadnt noticed. [8\|]

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/22/2011 9:59:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 Again.. The scam companies that charge students and didnt provide jobs, they obviously didnt even apply for visas or use that $ to pay for plane tickets, they were outright scams and nothing to do with the legitimate J-1 visa program Kick back? According to your "definition", what temporary employment agency doesnt take part of an employees wages as their fee? Geeze, they are in business to make money after all. Labor Ready- might charge an employer $18/hr for a worker and they turn around and pay that worker $10/hr. Its totally legal in the US if you hadnt noticed. [8\|] Welcome to TG's world.

tazzygirl -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/22/2011 10:00:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 Again.. The scam companies that charge students and didnt provide jobs, they obviously didnt even apply for visas or use that $ to pay for plane tickets, they were outright scams and nothing to do with the legitimate J-1 visa program Kick back? According to your "definition", what temporary employment agency doesnt take part of an employees wages as their fee? Geeze, they are in business to make money after all. Labor Ready- might charge an employer $18/hr for a worker and they turn around and pay that worker $10/hr. Its totally legal in the US if you hadnt noticed. [8\|] Do let me know when you actually read the article I posted. Twice you have proven you have not.

popeye1250 -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/22/2011 10:02:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl http://www.thesunnews.com/2010/08/15/1635669/far-from-home.html In this economy, why are they importing people to do hospitality work? Tazzy, they've always done that here and in Hampton, Beach N.H. where I lived. It's not much of a problem when you have only 30-40 rooms rented but when you have 300-400 rooms full all summer and multiply that by say 100 hotels the local labor pool can't handle the numbers. Plus, these are all temporary employees who go back to their own countries at the end of the summer. The Russian girls and some Eastern Europeans tend towards the maid jobs in the hotels. Lot's of Romainian waitresses here I noticed. And lots of the Irish workers tend towards Pubs, bars and other hospitality type things involving alcohol like bartenders at hotel pool bars outside. Those jobs pay very well when you tally up the tips! Funny, you see a lot of the Russians in the mug shots section of the Sunnews around August arrested for "shoplifting." The money they make here is about ten times what they could make in Russia or the Ukraine for the same three months. And the Master's Club, (the best club around in my opinion) has lots of Russian girls dancing there and they are in incredible shape! They all must have been gymnasts in Russia. I think they come over all year round on 3 month visas.

tazzygirl -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/22/2011 10:04:15 AM)
Pops, my issue isnt with those who come here to work.

tj444 -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/22/2011 10:33:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Do let me know when you actually read the article I posted. Twice you have proven you have not. I have read the article and it talks about scams, abuse, misrepresentation, etc but no where does it say anything about illegal kick backs. I have asked repeatedly for the exact statement on those kickbacks and you cant cuz its not there. Interestingly, you dont seem to have any problem with all the US students going to other countries and taking jobs there,.. hmmm.. The article sure does make the US look bad since the scams and abuse have gone on for so long and the govt has turned a blind eye to it. [8\|]

tazzygirl -> RE: Importation Of Foreign Workers Must Halt (9/22/2011 3:55:13 PM)
You are so busy rolling your eyes you cant read. Hotels, restaurants and other businesses often hire third-party labor recruiters to supply the J-1 workers. Many of those brokers are people from the students' native countries, often former Soviet bloc nations. These middlemen commonly dock students' pay so heavily for lodging, transportation and other necessities that the wages work out to $1 an hour or less, according to George Collins, an inspector at the Okaloosa County Sheriff's Department in the Florida Panhandle who has worked cases involving J-1 students since 2001. (Kickback - the practice of an employer or a person in a supervisory position of taking back a portion of the wages due workers.) Collins, who once notified the State Department that "J-1 abuse is epidemic here," told the AP the same companies often exploit students year after year despite his reporting them. For years, the State Department has refused to publicly discuss problems in the program in any kind of detail. The AP asked the State Department in a Freedom of Information Act request in March 2009 for a full list of complaints related to the program. In May, more than a year later, the department finally responded that it kept no such list, and that it keeps records related to the program for only three years. (well gee, if the department isnt keeping records, hard to find records of abuse. That doesnt mean they dont exist) Last month, the department said it had finally created a database of complaints. "It turns out that until this year, we did NOT keep a record of complaints. Now, we do," Marthena Cowart, a senior adviser for the department's Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs, said in a Nov. 10 e-mail. (yeah, really easy to ignore what you dont want to report) Katya, who used the same alias when testifying to Congress in October 2007 about how sex trafficking brought her to the U.S., said she was studying sports medicine in Kiev back in 2004 when her boss told her about the J-1 program. Instead of waitressing for a summer in Virginia as she'd been promised, however, Katya and another student were forced to strip at a club in Detroit. Their handler confiscated their passports and told them they had to pay $12,000 for the travel arrangements and another $10,000 for work documents, according to court records. Katya said he eventually demanded she come up with $35,000 somehow, by dancing or other means. (kickback - the practice of an employer or a person in a supervisory position of taking back a portion of the wages due workers.) "I said, 'That's not what I signed here for. That's not right.' He said, 'Well, you owe me the money. I don't care how I get it from you. If I have to sell you, I'll sell you.'" The women were told that if they refused, their families in Ukraine would be killed, Katya said. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/06/j1-student-visa-abuse-for_n_792354.html I advised you to look... see what you refused to find? The emails said 12 foreign students were each paying $400 a month — a total of $4,800— to live in the Florida Panhandle in a mobile home infested with cockroaches and rodents. (Kickback - the practice of an employer or a person in a supervisory position of taking back a portion of the wages due workers) The Thai students complained to U.S. Rep. Jeff Miller, R-Fla., saying they were afraid of a third-party labor broker, Ivan Lukin, who arranged for their housing and jobs. They said Lukin threatened them with deportation when they complained, and that the State Department and the International YMCA did little to help them. Yet Florida police warned the State Department as far back as 2007 that Lukin was subjecting students to crowded living conditions in violation of housing codes, according to emails obtained by the AP. There also were concerns the students weren't being paid. http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13882319&page=3 And if you think none of these students were threatened with being returned or abandoned... heck a few were told their families back in their home country would be killed... if they didnt pay.... Then again, I doubt you can read that with all your eye rolling. There is a massive difference between agreeing to being paid $10 an hour, the agency making whatever their cut is... I worked under those conditions with nursing agency. I got my agreed upon pay... i didnt have to pay out a dime... and no one threatened me or my family. As far as the kick backs to business... Businesses that hire students can save 8 percent by using a foreign worker over an American because they don't have to pay Medicare, Social Security and unemployment taxes. The students are required to have health insurance before they arrive, another cost that employers don't have to bear. Nice savings for the business.. a financial kickback to be sure... legal, no doubt,, and lining the business owners pockets. as far as you, i am done with ya. roll your eyes, ignore what you are demanding, then pull your bullshit you are half of what is fucking wrong in the country. dont believe a damn thing you are shown because YOU dont believe can happen. Its happening.... you are just too fucking stupid to stop rolling your eyes long enough to see it. What a fucking joke.

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