RE: 'Patriotic Americans' Will Wait Longer for Healthcare... (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: 'Patriotic Americans' Will Wait Longer for Healthcare... (9/25/2011 3:30:16 AM)

Polite hon....he is losing his grasp on actuality let alone reality.
Hes to the right of the taliban so he wouldnt know what the hell a socialist was, because he never has had a good grip of the differences, and yes IM laughin that you are a socialist:)




tweakabelle -> RE: 'Patriotic Americans' Will Wait Longer for Healthcare... (9/25/2011 3:43:33 AM)

quote:

You dont get it do you. No one has to wait for socialised healthcare, you can still go and pay to have it done privately IF YOU WANT TO.

The difference is those who cant afford to go private can still get treatment EVEN IF IT MEANS A WAIT. Sooner or later you will grasp what is in effect a simple fact, one that most four year olds understand.


Politesub53, have I ever told you how much I admire your boundless optimism?

Loathe as I am to disillusion you, there is the slight matter of an ideological chasm between the looney Right and facts such as those you highlight. While I share your aspiration that one day they will bridge the gap, I am afraid I don't share your optimism that they will ever succeed in doing so.




DomKen -> RE: 'Patriotic Americans' Will Wait Longer for Healthcare... (9/25/2011 6:21:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Thats a lie because socialism drives private businesses out of business.  Who can compete with "free"

And why should anyone be forced to pay twice for their health care, beside that

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
At least somebody is willing to admit that socialized healthcare systems have at least one definite downside...




You dont get it do you. No one has to wait for socialised healthcare, you can still go and pay to have it done privately IF YOU WANT TO.

The difference is those who cant afford to go private can still get treatment EVEN IF IT MEANS A WAIT. Sooner or later you will grasp what is in effect a simple fact, one that most four year olds understand.


Every nation with socialized health care has private health care as well.




Sanity -> RE: 'Patriotic Americans' Will Wait Longer for Healthcare... (9/25/2011 7:43:32 AM)


Again, keep your story straight! You claim (indirectly) that China is socialist, like you here:

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3859240

And who can forget all the days youve spent posting on these boards, pining away for your beloved Saddam Hussein

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Not surprised that you claim the Chinese brand of socialism as your own

You also had the hots for Saddams brand of socialism, didnt you



Show me just one post i have made stating either of these examples.

Sure sign you dont know what you are talking about when you revert to making shit up.

Lucy will explain to you all about that "socialist " I am always praising...... Red Maggie Thatcher.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: 'Patriotic Americans' Will Wait Longer for Healthcare... (9/26/2011 4:47:16 PM)

A comment to an article on the site "Credit Slips"

"«We are a country of hard-working and highly productive individuals» A Real American would point out that a large number (over 30 million families) of Fake Americans are so lazy and low producing that they rely on welfare ("stealing from winners") to eat, and that anybody making less than $100k/year is not very productive or hard working, just coasting along and enjoying the trickle-down from the Real Americans, those who make at least $100k. «--and the fact that our health care system is so dysfunctional that families end up bankrupt because of an illness or injury» A Real American would point out that it is the families that are dysfunctional -- if those families Real American winners who produced enough not to worry about the cost of healthcare, there would not be a problem. To a Real American the issue is that there are many families who don't produce enough to pay for their own health, and want to steal from the property of those who do. The Real American solution to the problem of losers trying to steal property from winners to pay for their health is "good riddance". That is simple and works at low cost. «is a national (and international) disgrace.» For Real Americans it is indeed a disgrace that lazy, unproductive losers can simply declare bankruptcy and refuse to return the wealth they have borrowed to their legitimate owners. «Our data provide strong evidence that the current system simply does not work. We deserve something better. Much better.» For a Real American a better system is one in which those losers who are too lazy or incompetent to produce enough to pay for their own health don't get to steal, via emergency room work, or via lavish welfare such as Medicaid or Medicare, from the winners who are good producers of wealth. Now I am not a Real American and I think that the arguments are are weak and miss several important points, but many USA voters think like Real American and are resentful that some of their hard earned property may be taken to fund the healthcare of losers. As to those losers, you hide as much as they reveal. Consider for example the obvious contradiction between: these two points: «4) Most of the medically bankrupt families were middle class before the illness or injury--they owned homes, had attended college, and had middle-class occupations.» «6) For these medically bankrupt families, their out-of-pocket medical expenses since the onset of the illness or injury averaged $17,943.» That does not compute -- how comes that middle class landlords can be bankrupted by total expenses of under $20k, less than the cost of a new car? It seems to be that you use "middle class" as a synonym of average, and the average USA family is working class, even if many working class people have a degree and live in a house they are in effect renting from their mortgage lender, as they have very little equity in it. In almost every country the working class is in the bottom middle 60% by income (the middle class is in the top 20%, the underclass in the bottom 20%), and the USA are no exception. Your "middle class" are really the "aspirational" working class, those poor workers who being caught in the American Dream make-believe they are middle class by borrowing from predatory lenders to make up stagnant or decreasing salaries. These overstretched people can then easily be bankrupted by the additional cash flow burden of expenses under $20k. Calling overstretched working class people "middle class" is common, but it is usually a ruse by populist reactionaries."

Brilliant.





Hippiekinkster -> RE: 'Patriotic Americans' Will Wait Longer for Healthcare... (9/26/2011 4:49:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Youre the one who wrote that people are free to jump the queue, failing to mention thats not something thats exactly practice since it involves paying twice


Think people dont pay twice now?

Mom and dad both have a job... both buy insurance through work.. and both still end up with medical bills.... happens alot.
"The latest Consumer Bankruptcy Project publication: Medical Bankruptcies
posted by Debb Thorne
Along with my co-authors (Himmelstein, Warren and Woolhandler), I would like to share with the readers of Credit Slips some of the highlights of our most recent publication from the Consumer Bankruptcy Project 2007: "Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007: Results of a National Study." (Published June 4, 2009, by The American Journal of Medicine.)

From this random national sample we concluded that:

1) Between 2001 and 2007, the percent of medical bankruptcies increased from 49.6% to 62.1%. In 2007, that translated into approximately 866,000 medical bankruptcies.

2) If we use the "legacy variables" from the 2001 study to calculate the percent of medical bankruptcies in 2007, it reveals a 50 percent increase in these types of bankruptcies.

3) 77.9% of those who said an illness or injury directly led to the bankruptcy had health insurance at the onset of the illness/injury.

4) Most of the medically bankrupt families were middle class before the illness or injury--they owned homes, had attended college, and had middle-class occupations.

5) The greatest expenses for these medically bankrupt families was hospital bills.

6) For these medically bankrupt families, their out-of-pocket medical expenses since the onset of the illness or injury averaged $17,943.


I have downloaded a copy of the press release, which has a more complete discussion of the findings as well as a few comments from me and my co-authors. It also provides information about how and where to find the complete article.Download Press release_June20094 I have also downloaded a fact sheet that we shared with the media, Download AJM factsheet as well as a copy of a question-and-answer sheet that might answer some of your FAQs. Download Q&A3
When I was asked today by a reporter from the Columbus Dispatch if I was surprised by our findings, I had to say that, nope, I wasn't surprised, but I was dismayed.We are a country of hard-working and highly productive individuals--and the fact that our health care system is so dysfunctional that families end up bankrupt because of an illness or injury is a national (and international) disgrace. Our data provide strong evidence that the current system simply does not work. We deserve something better. Much better."
http://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/2009/06/the-latest-consumer-bankruptcy-project-publication-medical-bankruptces.html#more








tweakabelle -> RE: 'Patriotic Americans' Will Wait Longer for Healthcare... (9/26/2011 10:50:44 PM)

So HK, almost a million medical bankruptcies a year in the USA. And that's on top of the tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths due to inadequate healthcare. Every single bankruptcy and every single death totally avoidable and easily affordable by adopting a sensible healthcare system.

Someone once said "the price of liberty is eternal vigilance".

The looney Right poses the question of healthcare in terms of "freedom" and "personal responsibility". IF (and it's a very big 'IF') there's any merit in that argument, then for Americans the cost of liberty is far far higher than that, and that it's part-paid in medical bankruptcies and unnecessary deaths. Odd that this 'freedom' isn't mentioned in your Bill of Rights.

Much more sensible to conclude that the Right's argument here is without merit.




EternalHoH -> RE: 'Patriotic Americans' Will Wait Longer for Healthcare... (9/27/2011 1:30:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Agreed.    But consider the food system and the health care is designed to fuel poor health.

HFSC,  and endless toxins and add to that - SICK is MONEY for corporations- the more sick we are- the more MONEY for  CEOS.

Until that model is changes-  it is a YAWN.





Hunky's got the right answer on this one.



Q: What the hell did numerous generations before today's elderly do when they had non-life-threatening afflictions like bad hips?

A: They died with them.






EternalHoH -> RE: 'Patriotic Americans' Will Wait Longer for Healthcare... (9/27/2011 1:32:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Shes referring to the recession caused by the Dems housing bubble.



Q:  Who was the beneficiary of securitizing the mortgage process?

A:  CEO's and the investor class.


P.S.  Last I knew, Greenspan (Mr Bubble) was a disciple of Ayn Rand, not Karl Marx.






Lucylastic -> RE: 'Patriotic Americans' Will Wait Longer for Healthcare... (9/27/2011 1:44:50 AM)

bad hips have often been related to many elderly dying before their time.
When I started nursing, if a patient had a broken hip.. their prognosis went down by a large amount.
If the patient cannot move because the pain is too great, they can get pressure sores, their chests can get congested. Circulation gets impeded, etc Plus a multitude of other sins
If you have poor mobilisation and are elderly, in pain and not liable to be doing a lot of excercising, yes non threatening bad hips can lead to death quite easily.




Lucylastic -> RE: 'Patriotic Americans' Will Wait Longer for Healthcare... (9/27/2011 1:46:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Shes referring to the recession caused by the Dems housing bubble.



Q:  Who was the beneficiary of securitizing the mortgage process?

A:  CEO's and the investor class.


P.S.  Last I knew, Greenspan (Mr Bubble) was a disciple of Ayn Rand, not Karl Marx.




I tried to point out to him that the 8 million jobs shed were not down to a housing bubble
but he didnt like that




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