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RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/29/2011 3:11:23 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I think we are thinking of a different types of responsibility.

Butch

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Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/29/2011 3:14:19 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		I dont think we are.
but as you didnt expand..Im going to take it you couldnt disagree with me or put forward where Im wrong?
If you would rather leave it alone, thats fine too


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Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/29/2011 3:49:45 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I will ignore your temper tantrum, and redirect you to the facts. Heres a perfect example, from todays news:


It will take more than some drivel from you to cause me to have a temper tantrum. You need to get over yourself dude.

quote:


According to modern Islamic thinking the following is lawful and correct

< snipped link >

Once all of Islam stands as one in denouncing such lawful verdicts then tell me about how all of Islam desires only peace



I have snipped out your link for brevity. That and the fact it has no bearing on the OP. As sad as the news in your link is, it has nothing to do with Muslims calling for world peace. All it is is another attempt at taking the thread off topic by yourself. Yet again, everyone can see it and you continue to make yourself look childish.

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Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/29/2011 3:58:31 PM   
Sanity


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You do a lot of snipping for "brevity"

Here, I put it back in for the sake of context


quote:



Iranian Pastor Youcef Nadarkhani, who is facing the death penalty, again refused to convert to Islam to save his life. Nadarkhani was arrested in 2009 for the crime of apostasy because he allegedly abandoned Islam for Christianity. As a pastor, Iranian clerics believe that Nadarkhani was preaching in order to convert Muslims...


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Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/29/2011 4:06:40 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


You do a lot of snipping for "brevity"

Here, I put it back in for the sake of context


quote:



Iranian Pastor Youcef Nadarkhani, who is facing the death penalty, again refused to convert to Islam to save his life. Nadarkhani was arrested in 2009 for the crime of apostasy because he allegedly abandoned Islam for Christianity. As a pastor, Iranian clerics believe that Nadarkhani was preaching in order to convert Muslims...




If you looked, admin ask people to shorten quotes, since you posted it only a few posts before mine, I didnt see a need to print the whole thing again.

Even so, it is STILL off topic, unless your aim is to derail a subject that you find hard to deal with.

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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/29/2011 4:15:25 PM   
Sanity


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You like to "shorten quotes" as you say because the facts drive you mad. You can only argue with the reality you invent, and actual reality drains the blood from your face.

You simply havent the wherewithal to deal with it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


You do a lot of snipping for "brevity"

Here, I put it back in for the sake of context


quote:



Iranian Pastor Youcef Nadarkhani, who is facing the death penalty, again refused to convert to Islam to save his life. Nadarkhani was arrested in 2009 for the crime of apostasy because he allegedly abandoned Islam for Christianity. As a pastor, Iranian clerics believe that Nadarkhani was preaching in order to convert Muslims...




If you looked, admin ask people to shorten quotes, since you posted it only a few posts before mine, I didnt see a need to print the whole thing again.

Even so, it is STILL off topic, unless your aim is to derail a subject that you find hard to deal with.


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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/29/2011 4:22:15 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


You like to "shorten quotes" as you say because the facts drive you mad. You can only argue with the reality you invent, and actual reality drains the blood from your face.

You simply havent the wherewithal to deal with it.




Two points here brains, firstly anyone can see the link you made in post 119 was the one mentioned in post 124, a whole five posts later.

Secondly, I have told you not once but twice, that your link has NOTHING to do with Muslims pushing for peace. Obviously your reading skills are as poor as your attention span.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/29/2011 4:23:38 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		It`s only sanity`s obfuscation du jour.....nothing more.

And it`s more about a bias against Muslims than anything else with that guy and 99% of his party.

This is actually pissing them off.

They were doing better trying to credit bush for starting the Arab Spring.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 9/29/2011 4:27:26 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/29/2011 4:26:46 PM   
Sanity


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How many Muslims are trying to save Youcef Nadarkhanis life?

Do you deny that this will be a lawful execution under Islamic law?

Of course his plight is on topic, it is directly on topic. Relevance isnt your problem with it, your real problem is that the reality of it is very inconvenient for you, and for the point that you are trying to make in this thread.


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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/29/2011 4:28:31 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Lmfao........It isnt on topic except in the wilderness that is your head.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/29/2011 4:37:48 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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It is Islam itself that is wandering in the wilderness, and I for one hold out hope that the people of Islam will find their way to a more peaceful place in the near future. I also I believe that they will, on account of growing global communications through the internet and other media, and a shared enlightenment that is fast arising.

But I for one cannot  and will not ignore the fact that much of Islam is not yet there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Lmfao........It isnt on topic except in the wilderness that is your head.


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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/29/2011 4:38:45 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		how is troy davis being executed by american law, not part of this topic????
I bet he had christians on his side but were they listened to? does that make all americans as bad as all the eebil moooozlems that let their court decide when a person should die?

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Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/29/2011 4:42:56 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


It is Islam itself that is wandering in the wilderness, and I for one hold out hope that the people of Islam will find their way to a more peaceful place in the near future. I also I believe that they will, on account of growing global communications through the internet and other media, and a shared enlightenment that is fast arising.

But I for one cannot  and will not ignore the fact that much of Islam is not yet there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Lmfao........It isnt on topic except in the wilderness that is your head.




At last, a post that is on topic.

For once I agree with you, since I have never stated that all Muslims are peaceful. The purpose of my starting this thread was to point out (even if somewhat sarcastically) that there are large numbers of Muslims who abhor terrorism and just want the same things as we in the west do.

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Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/29/2011 6:52:45 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

If you would rather leave it alone, thats fine too


Yes I‘ll take your advice...damn I'm tired...nothing more exhausting, physically and mentally, then a 4 year old on vacation.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/29/2011 8:59:43 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
If he were being executed for apostasy or even for heresy you would have something

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

how is troy davis being executed by american law, not part of this topic????
I bet he had christians on his side but were they listened to? does that make all americans as bad as all the eebil moooozlems that let their court decide when a person should die?


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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/29/2011 9:01:17 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

If you would rather leave it alone, thats fine too


Yes I‘ll take your advice...damn I'm tired...nothing more exhausting, physically and mentally, then a 4 year old on vacation.

Butch

empathise there, Ive done it three times:) I get the tired!

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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/29/2011 10:05:44 PM   
tweakabelle


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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct


Seems to me that the conference organizers are tackling head on the perception that some of us, myself included, that Muslims have been involved in lots of conflicts in the past decades. Your posts seem to be denying that they've been in conflicts- so then what would the point of a peace conference be?


My jaw dropped when I read this. I have no idea where you got it from. I explained my purpose explicitly in post #85. It has nothing to do with, nor did I say anything about denying Muslims have been involved in conflicts - which I don't deny anyways.

quote:



Face it, we don't have many Christian, or Jewish martyrs these days blowing things up. ". But Muslims? A different story.


This statement of yours is technically true. We Westerners are supposed to secular and we don't do martyrs do we? So, with a few cosmetic changes it becomes: "We don't have many Western or Israeli these days soldiers killing people" . And now it's downright false. We do have soldiers killing people, every day, every single day. Have had for years. The majority of them civilians too. So it's hardly "a different story".

quote:

I'm not certain why this is. Perhaps its related to the high rate of illiteracy and the fact that the only schools are religious and offer a very slanted look at the world. It's a comforting theory...but IIRC, most of the terrorists involved in 9/11 were actually well educated. So what is it about the religion that encourages a small percentage to commit atrocities? Is it even related to the religion or is it merely coincidental, i.e. the people in those countries enjoy committing atrocities and they happen to be Muslim?

To me, these are interesting questions, but you'll never get to ask them if you can't acknowledge the link between Muslims and terrorism.


It takes two to tango. Your analysis doesn't even mention the West's role in events. All and any blame is automatically attached to Muslims. Sanity offers a more through presentation of the same view. This view relies on ignorance hatred fear and Islamophobia to sustain itself, as is obvious from Sanity's rants.

Is it ever the case that one side is 100% right and the other side 100% wrong? Do you think that it might just be a possibility that the West could be a teeny weeny bit to blame? That the West has contributed to making the mess? Is it relevant that it's Western and Israeli troops occupying Arab lands and not the other way around? Do foreign military occupations provoke resistance and terrorism? Surely you don't claim that they're benign altruistic affairs designed to help the ungrateful natives as Sanity argues(sic), do you?

Do you think that omitting these possibilities from consideration might have some connection to your admitted inability to come up with a comprehensive analysis of the situation? Do you think that including these considerations might help you come up with a more complete understanding of the situation?

I do.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/29/2011 10:08:20 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/30/2011 6:39:50 AM   
samboct


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Status: offline 		Tweak

Well, it seems that we have very different interpretations of what you've written. I refer you to your post #55 which to me suggests that the Western perception of Muslims being in more conflicts than other religions is in error. I shan't copy the whole thing to reduce pixel count. Your above post contradicts this view- so now I'm puzzled by what you meant.

I'll thank you to not make "cosmetic changes" to my statements- because what you've written is a gross distortion of what I wrote. If you wish to bring up a different point- fine. But please don't twist my words in such a fashion- they're unrecognizable to me.

"It takes two to tango. Your analysis doesn't even mention the West's role in events."

In human history and before, there have always been oppressors and the oppressed. My comments concern Muslims response to a situation, not a debate as to whether or not the situation that they find themselves in is moral or ethical. These are two separate problems and headway cannot be made by conflating the two as you have done. I don't know why there is a link behind martyrdom and Islam and your eagerness to blame the West for all the problems in the region obscures this conundrum. The West's role in the region is a separate question and I will not deny the pernicious effects that Western consumption of oil has had by distorting the economies of these countries. However, that's a separate debate.

To be clear
1) Why do Muslims commit terrorist acts and martyr themselves?
2) What is the role of the Western countries on Middle Eastern politics?

These are NOT the same question. They are not different sides of the same coin, although the answers may be related.

Sam

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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/30/2011 7:41:30 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

These are two separate problems and headway cannot be made by conflating the two as you have done. I don't know why there is a link behind martyrdom and Islam and your eagerness to blame the West for all the problems in the region obscures this conundrum. The West's role in the region is a separate question and I will not deny the pernicious effects that Western consumption of oil has had by distorting the economies of these countries. However, that's a separate debate.


Well that's precisely where we have different views. From where I sit these matters are intricately linked.

I note that you freely admit you don't know why these problems exist. I would assert that your refusal to link the two issues is precisely why you are unable to come up with satisfactory answers. I would also assert that unless the two issues - which I argue are, to a certain extent, cause and effect - are linked, you will never be able to come up with a complete answer. I would further assert that you're asking the wrong questions, or at the very least, framing the questions in such a way as to exclude any satisfactory explanation of the phenomena you're seeking to understand.

I do find it odd that while you freely admit you can't explain the phenomena, you're adamant about refusing to explore some potential explanations. Especially when those explanations provide lucid comprehensive explanations of the phenomena you're seeking to understand. That's not a situation I find myself in.

Nor do I understand why you are so resistant to the notion that the causes of terrorism are to be found in concrete realities and real events, that people turn to extremist ideologies as a consequence of these realities and events. Nor do I understand how you can hope to gain an comprehensive understanding of the situation by refusing to consider a different point of view, or by refusing to look at the problem from the 'other sides' perspective.

The only thing that's certain is that, at the very least, one of us is wrong.



< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/30/2011 7:44:58 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Damn Muslims holding a peace conference. - 9/30/2011 7:53:23 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Well that's precisely where we have different views. From where I sit these matters are intricately linked.

Of course they're linked. That's not the point. Read about any Tibetan suicide bombers lately?

K.

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Profile   Post #: 140
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