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[Poll]

Transgendered


I empathise with those who identify as transgendered
  63% (26)
I don't understand transgendered individuals and think it's messed up
  2% (1)
I don't understand transgendered individuals, but to each their own
  24% (10)
Other (please elaborate)
  9% (4)


Total Votes : 41
(last vote on : 9/30/2011 4:45:46 PM)
(Poll ended: 9/30/2011 11:59:00 PM)
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RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 11:15:36 AM   
LinnaeaBorealis


Posts: 8595
Joined: 10/5/2008
From: Insanity & beyond
Status: offline 		Banning topics is a bit dangerous in my eyes. I think we should be allowed to throw topics out there, see where they go & mods can determine if it's really against TOU.

Censorship is a dangerous thing. We need to fight that in most cases. Even the topics that make people emotional. People do have the right to their opinions & they have every right to express them in an appropriate forum. Having a discussion with differing viewpoints is not against TOU, as I understand them.

Discussions are better when they contain differing viewpoints, IMO. Because they engender critical thinking. Now if someone decides that the way to get their point across is to call other people names that can be dealt with on a case by case basis. Adults often have differing opinions & discuss them without devolving into squabbles & name calling.

To ban a topic because it *might* cause someone to post something against TOU is a dangerous place to go. Where would the censorship end??

_____________________________

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
~~L. Cohen

Just one of the yahoo's

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 11:16:18 AM   
VirginPotty


Posts: 11624
Joined: 7/16/2008
From: Virginville
Status: offline 		I voted "I don't understand transgendered individuals, but to each their own". 
When I say that I don't understand them I mean that I don't understand their identity struggle. 
I"m indifferent either way which is why I say "to each their own".

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Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 11:37:43 AM   
AneNoz


Posts: 263
Joined: 4/26/2011
Status: offline
quote:

But the transperson, although born into a male body is not really a male. Not in their essence. Why not make the body reflect the essence of what a person actually is?
Because this is not the body in which they were born, and thus it is not the body they were intended to have. As I have said, this is cruel, but that is often the way of this world.

quote:

We have the technology now to make that happen. Was that technology not made available at the whim of the Gods also?
No, the technology is the creation of mankind and has naught to do with the Gods, other than that one might choose to inspire an inventive person. The Gods do not control what is done in this world, only what is set in motion, it is for us to play out that which they begin. The Gods create potentials, and it is us who realize them or not.

This is not an appropriate time nor locale for a discussion of such arcana and esoterica, nor am I truly qualified to do so, but let it but be said that much that is in this world is not as it was originally intended, the dream was corrupted. As well, there is also much, indeed, that science is capable of that we ought not do. Mankind has not the wisdom to match it's own intelligence and inventiveness. This is not as it should be, but simply as it is.

Be at peace
Aneka

(in reply to LinnaeaBorealis)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 11:46:04 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AneNoz
As well, there is also much, indeed, that science is capable of that we ought not do. Mankind has not the wisdom to match it's own intelligence and inventiveness. This is not as it should be, but simply as it is.



i may not agree with the rest of her post, but i do agree with that. just because we can do something, doesn't mean we always should do something. the technology to obliterate the planet exists, but we probably shouldn't use it.

that would be an interesting topic for another thread.


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Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica


(in reply to AneNoz)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 11:59:07 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

How do you view those individuals who see themselves as being biologically the wrong gender? Do you have empathy for their struggles? Or do you find you just can't comprehend it? Does anyone find it's going against nature?

Hopefully there will be a fair number of responses, I'll reveal my motivation for asking this question at the end.


I have complete empathy. I try to comprehend it but am certain I fail. I see nothing about it that 'goes against nature'. Sometimes 'nature' seems to have fucked things up. If it is possible to unfuck them, I am all for it.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 11:59:11 AM   
LinnaeaBorealis


Posts: 8595
Joined: 10/5/2008
From: Insanity & beyond
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AneNoz

quote:

We have the technology now to make that happen. Was that technology not made available at the whim of the Gods also?


No, the technology is the creation of mankind and has naught to do with the Gods, other than that one might choose to inspire an inventive person. The Gods do not control what is done in this world, only what is set in motion, it is for us to play out that which they begin. The Gods create potentials, and it is us who realize them or not.

This is not an appropriate time nor locale for a discussion of such arcana and esoterica, nor am I truly qualified to do so, but let it but be said that much that is in this world is not as it was originally intended, the dream was corrupted. As well, there is also much, indeed, that science is capable of that we ought not do. Mankind has not the wisdom to match it's own intelligence and inventiveness. This is not as it should be, but simply as it is.

Be at peace
Aneka



I highlighted that phrase because I think that it illustrates exactly what I was saying. Perhaps the Gods chose to inspire an inventive person to relieve the affliction of the person who is born into the wrong gendered body. Medical science has discovered many ways to relieve human's afflictions, such being born without a limb or with a terrible disfigurement. Is it your contention that those people should have to live in the bodies in which they were born because that's the way the Gods made them?

I think that discussions of that nature are completely appropriate here. It's an interesting discussion & germane to the topic.

< Message edited by LinnaeaBorealis -- 9/26/2011 12:03:48 PM >

_____________________________

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
~~L. Cohen

Just one of the yahoo's

(in reply to AneNoz)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 12:08:29 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

How do you view those individuals who see themselves as being biologically the wrong gender?


As people.

quote:

Do you have empathy for their struggles?


No. I have tried. But I cannot identify with them. I have no similar experience in my life to base identifying with them off of.

quote:

Or do you find you just can't comprehend it?


I can intellectually understand it. I can accept it. On an emotional level, no, I cannot comprehend it.

quote:

Does anyone find it's going against nature?


I suppose that something, somewhere, at sometime with trans-people went against 'nature.' I cannot say exactly what that is. I do not really give it much thought.

quote:

Hopefully there will be a fair number of responses, I'll reveal my motivation for asking this question at the end.


Overall, they are just people, doing the best they can, dealing with struggles, like everyone else.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 1:05:47 PM   
AneNoz


Posts: 263
Joined: 4/26/2011
Status: offline
quote:

Is it your contention that those people should have to live in the bodies in which they were born because that's the way the Gods made them?
Yes, this as I contend. This breaks my heart, but that is as it is.

First, just for convenience I will but speak of Gods, this in no way it to be understood to exclude Goddesses, it is merely to avoid a confusing phrasing.

As to the inspiration, it is I suppose possible, but in this case if it were the God that had made the one transgendered, then that God would have not made the person that way. And if it is a different God then it is wrong for that God to interfere in the design of another. This is not unknown for such a thing to transpire, but no good ever comes of such.

This question of inspiration does indeed disturb me, the above is how I would interpret this to be, but yet it nags at me still that this might not be so. If you would but abide a short while, I will call my grandmother who, unlike myself, is a priestess and most learned and wise in the ways of the Gods, and I will ask her what is her interpretation of this seeming contradiction.

(in reply to LinnaeaBorealis)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 1:10:06 PM   
Epytropos


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/23/2011
Status: offline 		Nature is shit. This is the fundamental assertion of our speices. It explains everything we do and everything we are. If we can change natural fuck-ups to make people happier, all the better. I don't know that I would say I empathize, but I definitely sympathize, and I support transgenderism for those who want it. It's not for me, but then again neither are a lot of things.


_____________________________

They're only words. Don't dwell on them. They never mean what you think.

I speak only of My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 1:20:49 PM   
AneNoz


Posts: 263
Joined: 4/26/2011
Status: offline
quote:

Nature is shit.
This is not the wording I would prefer to chose to express this idea, but the idea is indeed sound.

That which you are naming nature is but the world as it was conceived by He Who Dreams. In its conception it was perfect, but the actualization of the Dream is corrupted, and it is thus that nature is, at times, indeed "shit".

(in reply to Epytropos)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 1:27:26 PM   
Epytropos


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/23/2011
Status: offline 		Then why should we not take up the task of fixing it, at very least to the extent that it improves our lives?

_____________________________

They're only words. Don't dwell on them. They never mean what you think.

I speak only of My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

(in reply to AneNoz)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 1:48:48 PM   
AneNoz


Posts: 263
Joined: 4/26/2011
Status: offline 		I fear that my understanding is that this would be to counter the will of the Gods as expressed in what is, and that is always a bad thing that comes to no good end. Often are they petty and quick to anger when thwarted. As I have said, I am unsure of this issue and I await for my Grandmother to return my call so I might ask this of her.

(in reply to Epytropos)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 2:00:34 PM   
Epytropos


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/23/2011
Status: offline 		Everything we do every day is counter to what is. We build, we destroy, we invent, we heal; in a natural state we would live as the apes do. Actually we would live with fewer advancements than the apes do, since they themselves invent and build.


_____________________________

They're only words. Don't dwell on them. They never mean what you think.

I speak only of My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

(in reply to AneNoz)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 2:08:23 PM   
AneNoz


Posts: 263
Joined: 4/26/2011
Status: offline 		This would seem to be so, yet it is not, for not all that is is the will of the Gods. As I have stated, they do not control that which occurs each day, but only what is intended to be. That you should be male and heterosexual for example, and that you be born into the economic and social state into which you were born, but all else in your life is not that is as you desire or achieve. Your own God or Goddess may indeed wish things of you and help or hinder you in accordance to their whim, but they do not determine these things in the same manner.

It is for this that I am unsure, to me it seems that one being transgender is not as an illness to be treated, but as a thing to be born and accepted, yet it also has merit from the view you are expounding. A very interesting question indeed.

Be at peace
Aneka

(in reply to Epytropos)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 2:14:09 PM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		your perspective is interesting Aneka. i don't particularly agree with it, but it's interesting nonetheless. 

_____________________________

Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica


(in reply to AneNoz)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 3:16:50 PM   
AneNoz


Posts: 263
Joined: 4/26/2011
Status: offline 		I thank you for that.

I have spoken with my Grandmother, and she says that I am correct that a person being transgendered is indeed a result of the will of the Gods, but that I have misplaced the desire. It is the fact that the gender within the mind that is the intended gender, and what is to be accepted is that gender, despite the physical gender. That is but a result of an error in the chances of the mechanisms of reproduction. Thus, I was wrong to consider the surgery to reassign the sex as an altering. It is but the appearance of the body that is altered and not it's essential nature, thus the transgendered one remains a female with a male body (or of course the inverse of such), it is only that the appearance of the body has been made to more closely resemble the body that is within the mind, and that the body within the mind is the true body as it was intended to be.

It would be to make the transgendered one reject the gender of their soul in favour of that of their body as born that would be the altering of the Gods' will, and that would be the wrong.

As well, she reminded me also that life is to be a joy, that is it's intent, and nothing any God may wish alters this. Thus to deny a transgendered person the best chance that might be to find this joy in living would in and of itself be an evil.

I thank all for this discussion, and especially so the originator of the topic, as it has relieved me of a sadness in this regard, it is a great pleasure to learn that I might follow my heart in this matter and aid those so afflicted to find what they can of the joy that is their due, and still be pleasing to my Goddess and in accord, as well, with the intent of the world as it was first conceived. This is as it should be.

I will pray that my Goddess reward you each for this good you have done me.

Be at peace
Aneka

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 7:38:21 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		 i chose the don't understand but to each their own.  I do understand some people are actually born two separate genders, and empathize this.  I guess a lot of my confusion comes from not having a clue what it is to not feel the gender you are.  I've always been female so even when i was a tomboy, i was a female.  I don't know what being female is separate from my body so that's why i don't understand a lot of it.  I watched a show i think it was 20/20 a few weeks ago about transgenders:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utpam0IGYac

I only watched the first part so far, but its a 5 part series.   I say go for whatever it is that you need to do but don't require me to understand it.

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 8:31:36 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
Status: offline 		Aaaaalllll righty then.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 9:00:26 PM   
hausboy


Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AneNoz

Sympathy I have in great amounts, however it is incorrect to alter what one was born to create but the facsimile of gender. One born a man is a man no matter what is done to alter appearances, the one remains a man. One is what one was made, and one is made thus at the whim of the Gods. Often are they cruel.

Be at peace
Aneka



I wasn't going to bother, but what the hell.  I will now channel CollarMe's Heather McLeather....

1. I certainly don't want yours...or anyone's fucking sympathy.  Sympathy is for the dead.  I'm quite alive and living a damn good life.

2.  "One is made what one is made."  You were made an imbecile.  You have my...sympathy.

Who the fuck are you to tell anyone what is correct or incorrect when it comes to being transgender?  Why don't you try spending a month cross-living and tell me what's correct and incorrect.

3.  I am completely at peace.  Know why? Because I suffered for 30 years in a body that was assigned a sex at birth that was incongruous with my gender.  Thank GOD for modern medicine....thank GOD for my transition.  It gave me a new lease on life and I go about my daily life beautifully without harassment because close-minded idiots would never suspect that I'm anything other than what I am...which is a man.

(in reply to AneNoz)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Transgendered - 9/26/2011 10:33:18 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
Status: offline 		Ahh, hausboy, you may want to read a little further in the thread.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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