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RE: A question for Constitutional scholar types. - 9/29/2011 1:01:08 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

That's one of my points, that there is a process for altering the Constitution when needed, but that it isn't being done that way. Instead of the elected representatives doing the altering through the procedure set out in the constitution, it's the appointed justices doing through "interpretation".  And some of those interpretations are pretty iffy when you look at the wording.



You do know what that is called do you not?

"constructive fraud"


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: A question for Constitutional scholar types. - 9/29/2011 5:57:28 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

That's one of my points, that there is a process for altering the Constitution when needed, but that it isn't being done that way. Instead of the elected representatives doing the altering through the procedure set out in the constitution, it's the appointed justices doing through "interpretation".  And some of those interpretations are pretty iffy when you look at the wording.



That is part of the process. The other is that the SC has the responsibility to rule on laws. I definitely agree that at times all branches overstep themselves.... thats why the other two are there.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: A question for Constitutional scholar types. - 9/29/2011 6:04:45 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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~FR

"A Constitution is, in fact, and must be regarded by the judges, as a fundamental law. It therefore belongs to them to ascertain its meaning, as well as the meaning of any particular act proceeding from the legislative body. If there should happen to be an irreconcilable variance between the two, that which has the superior obligation and validity ought, of course, to be preferred; or, in other words, the Constitution ought to be preferred to the statute."

Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 78

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: A question for Constitutional scholar types. - 9/29/2011 8:24:29 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
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Legislating from the bench is one of the reasons that many people distrust the judiciary. And federal judges do it because they can. It is one of the problems with having judges that are appointed for life, in my opinion. They are nearly impossible to remove, regardless of their judicial shenanigans.
Just to lighten the mood, here is a song about the problem:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEkuORtuOlY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

That's one of my points, that there is a process for altering the Constitution when needed, but that it isn't being done that way. Instead of the elected representatives doing the altering through the procedure set out in the constitution, it's the appointed justices doing through "interpretation".  And some of those interpretations are pretty iffy when you look at the wording.



_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: A question for Constitutional scholar types. - 9/29/2011 8:28:53 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

That's one of my points, that there is a process for altering the Constitution when needed, but that it isn't being done that way. Instead of the elected representatives doing the altering through the procedure set out in the constitution, it's the appointed justices doing through "interpretation".  And some of those interpretations are pretty iffy when you look at the wording.



That is part of the process. The other is that the SC has the responsibility to rule on laws. I definitely agree that at times all branches overstep themselves.... thats why the other two are there.



corporate law.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: A question for Constitutional scholar types. - 9/29/2011 8:32:10 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
well the mood aint light its dark

Judicial Racketeering Prompts Call For RICO ACT Prosecutions

Internet Exclusive Video News Blog: 7:45 min
Release Date: August 29, 2011

    Los Angeles, CA Former U. S. Prosecutor Richard I. Fine, Ph.D. appears in this exclusive video report where he outlines the criminal activity where members of the California Judiciary, are involved. He says this activity qualifies as "organized crime" and explains why their activities should qualify for prosecution under the RICO ACT ( Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act). Read Transcript Here

Rico Act


According to Wikipedia the RICO ACT is a United States Federal Law that provides for extended criminal penalties and a civil cause of action for acts performed as part of an ongoing criminal organization. The RICO Act focuses specifically on racketeering, and it allows for the leaders of a syndicate to be tried for the crimes which they ordered others to do or assisted them, closing a perceived loophole that allowed someone who told a man to, for example, murder, to be exempt from the trial because they did not actually do it. Judicial Crimes

Richard Fine described each of offenses involving 90% of California Judges among them are:
  • Repeatedly taking illegal payments from parties appearing before them
  • Denial of Due Process by failure to disclose those payments to litigants
  • Obstruction of Justice
  • Misprison of Felony
  • Extrinsic Fraud






    There is NO light in this country, they stole it.

    Where is the light?


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

    Legislating from the bench is one of the reasons that many people distrust the judiciary. And federal judges do it because they can. It is one of the problems with having judges that are appointed for life, in my opinion. They are nearly impossible to remove, regardless of their judicial shenanigans.
    Just to lighten the mood, here is a song about the problem:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEkuORtuOlY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

    That's one of my points, that there is a process for altering the Constitution when needed, but that it isn't being done that way. Instead of the elected representatives doing the altering through the procedure set out in the constitution, it's the appointed justices doing through "interpretation".  And some of those interpretations are pretty iffy when you look at the wording.




    < Message edited by Real0ne -- 9/29/2011 8:33:28 AM >


    _____________________________

    "We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

    Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

    Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

    "No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

    (in reply to Iamsemisweet)
  • Profile   Post #: 126
    RE: A question for Constitutional scholar types. - 9/29/2011 8:50:21 AM   
    Iamsemisweet


    Posts: 3651
    Joined: 4/9/2011
    From: The Great Northwest, USA
    Status: offline
    Then they need to prosecute.
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Real0ne

    well the mood aint light its dark

    Judicial Racketeering Prompts Call For RICO ACT Prosecutions

    Internet Exclusive Video News Blog: 7:45 min
    Release Date: August 29, 2011

        Los Angeles, CA Former U. S. Prosecutor Richard I. Fine, Ph.D. appears in this exclusive video report where he outlines the criminal activity where members of the California Judiciary, are involved. He says this activity qualifies as "organized crime" and explains why their activities should qualify for prosecution under the RICO ACT ( Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act). Read Transcript Here

    Rico Act


    According to Wikipedia the RICO ACT is a United States Federal Law that provides for extended criminal penalties and a civil cause of action for acts performed as part of an ongoing criminal organization. The RICO Act focuses specifically on racketeering, and it allows for the leaders of a syndicate to be tried for the crimes which they ordered others to do or assisted them, closing a perceived loophole that allowed someone who told a man to, for example, murder, to be exempt from the trial because they did not actually do it. Judicial Crimes

    Richard Fine described each of offenses involving 90% of California Judges among them are:
  • Repeatedly taking illegal payments from parties appearing before them
  • Denial of Due Process by failure to disclose those payments to litigants
  • Obstruction of Justice
  • Misprison of Felony
  • Extrinsic Fraud






    There is NO light in this country, they stole it.

    Where is the light?


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

    Legislating from the bench is one of the reasons that many people distrust the judiciary. And federal judges do it because they can. It is one of the problems with having judges that are appointed for life, in my opinion. They are nearly impossible to remove, regardless of their judicial shenanigans.
    Just to lighten the mood, here is a song about the problem:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEkuORtuOlY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

    That's one of my points, that there is a process for altering the Constitution when needed, but that it isn't being done that way. Instead of the elected representatives doing the altering through the procedure set out in the constitution, it's the appointed justices doing through "interpretation".  And some of those interpretations are pretty iffy when you look at the wording.





  • _____________________________

    Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
    The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
    Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
    The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

    (in reply to Real0ne)
    Profile   Post #: 127
    RE: A question for Constitutional scholar types. - 9/29/2011 9:09:02 AM   
    gungadin09


    Posts: 3232
    Joined: 3/19/2010
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
    Legislating from the bench is one of the reasons that many people distrust the judiciary. And federal judges do it because they can. It is one of the problems with having judges that are appointed for life, in my opinion. They are nearly impossible to remove, regardless of their judicial shenanigans.


    It seems like the courts have been legislating this one from the bench for the last 200 years. And then they use past precedent as the justification for their rulings. So i guess the question is, does a certain number of years of judicial misinterpretation of a law legitimately CHANGE the meaning of the law? If so, is that a flaw in the system of checks and balances the Founding Fathers designed, or are the courts merely exercising the authority that is given them to interpret the law?

    pam

    (in reply to Iamsemisweet)
    Profile   Post #: 128
    RE: A question for Constitutional scholar types. - 9/29/2011 9:09:35 AM   
    Real0ne


    Posts: 21189
    Joined: 10/25/2004
    Status: offline
    its not new, its what is under every carpet in every state that no one wants to look at.

    Its no different than having a shitty toilet bowl that no one cleans.

    Holder wont touch this with your 10 foot pole. 

    He would be shot.

    or have an accident and all the conspiracy theorists would be pissed..






    _____________________________

    "We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

    Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

    Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

    "No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

    (in reply to Iamsemisweet)
    Profile   Post #: 129
    RE: A question for Constitutional scholar types. - 9/29/2011 10:15:32 AM   
    Iamsemisweet


    Posts: 3651
    Joined: 4/9/2011
    From: The Great Northwest, USA
    Status: offline
    Which one:?  That first amendment? 
    It is my impression, although I am not a legal history scholar, that the judiciary's influence has really sky rocketed in maybe the last 50 years, maybe 60.  So I don't know if they have been misinterpreting the law for 200 years or not.  Plus, whether it is a misinterpretation or not kind of depends on your point of view.  Not everyone is a strict constructionist.
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: gungadin09

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
    Legislating from the bench is one of the reasons that many people distrust the judiciary. And federal judges do it because they can. It is one of the problems with having judges that are appointed for life, in my opinion. They are nearly impossible to remove, regardless of their judicial shenanigans.


    It seems like the courts have been legislating this one from the bench for the last 200 years. And then they use past precedent as the justification for their rulings. So i guess the question is, does a certain number of years of judicial misinterpretation of a law legitimately CHANGE the meaning of the law? If so, is that a flaw in the system of checks and balances the Founding Fathers designed, or are the courts merely exercising the authority that is given them to interpret the law?

    pam



    _____________________________

    Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
    The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
    Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
    The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

    (in reply to gungadin09)
    Profile   Post #: 130
    RE: A question for Constitutional scholar types. - 9/29/2011 11:09:12 AM   
    Real0ne


    Posts: 21189
    Joined: 10/25/2004
    Status: offline
    articles of confederation

    preamble
    Whereas the Delegates of the United States of America.

    the united states of america existed before the constitution anyone quote was written.  Prior they were the united colonies, not much different.

    Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the States of it was intended to a compact of non hostility and friendship, not a national government.


    Article II. Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every Power, Jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.

    State and "E"State are the same thing.  If you were a land owner you had sovereign rights, except where a huge land owner such as penn and many in new york would sell it to you such that you owned it "in fee" (just like england).


    Article IV. The better to secure and perpetuate mutual friendship and intercourse among the people of the different States in this union, the free inhabitants of each of these States, paupers, vagabonds, and fugitives from justice excepted, shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of free citizens in the several States; and the people of each State shall have free ingress and regress to and from any other State, and shall enjoy therein all the privileges of trade and commerce, subject [theres that damn "subject" word again, is citizen next?] to the same duties, impositions, and restrictions as the inhabitants thereof respectively, provided that such restrictions shall not extend so far as to prevent the removal of property imported into any State, to any other State, of which the owner is an inhabitant; provided also that no imposition, duties or restriction shall be laid by any State, on the property of the united States, or either of them.

    Who gave these assholes overlord status?

    The ONLY way they can make that claim is by military "conquest"!  Even if that is true they had no legal right or authority to redistribute property and less to claim the inhabitants as part of the realm, unless of course this were a feudal society!  cough.  No one can "legitimately" claim jurisdiction over you or anyone else WITHOUT your EXPRESS permission.....UNLESS you did INJURY in person or equity to another!


    If any person guilty of, or charged with, treason, felony, or other high misdemeanor in any State, shall flee from justice, and be found in any of the united States, he shall, upon demand of the Governor or executive power of the State from which he fled, be delivered up and removed to the State having jurisdiction of his offense.

    Full faith and credit shall be given in each of these States to the records, acts, and judicial proceedings of the courts and magistrates of every other State.

    sovereigns doing business!  They agree to give up anyone committing a crime against the sovereign Estate known later as the "People".

    Yeh try and use that in anything but the supreme court that the laws of one state apply to another.

    they made a national government from day one and sold it as freedom and sovereignty for the people.

    Just like they sold social security as an insurance policy and now reject it BECAUSE IT WAS NOT IN WRITING it was snake oil.



    Article VIII.

    The taxes for paying that proportion shall be laid and levied by the authority and direction of the legislatures of the several States within the time agreed upon by the united States in congress assembled.

    Oh yeh thats right the "sovereign" historically did collect taxes in his pyramid scam for knight services etc and his insurance racket scam.



    The CONstitution did not repeal that and I do not see "people" in there anywhere!  LMAO


    I just dont see people with unalienable rights in there anywhere!  I see vassals of conquest under feudal overlords where the names have been changed to protect the guilty.

    check my post 105 that shows what patrick henry said.



    < Message edited by Real0ne -- 9/29/2011 11:14:52 AM >


    _____________________________

    "We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

    Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

    Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

    "No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

    (in reply to Iamsemisweet)
    Profile   Post #: 131
    RE: A question for Constitutional scholar types. - 9/29/2011 12:02:45 PM   
    gungadin09


    Posts: 3232
    Joined: 3/19/2010
    Status: offline
    Yes, i was talking about the 1st Amendment.

    quote:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


    The fact is, it clearly says NO LAW may be passed that ABRIDGES freedom of speech or religion, and the Supreme Court is interpreting those words VERY broadly when they rule that that means any number of abridgments on the freedom of speech or religion are okay, because the court considers those to be reasonable abridgements. The law does NOT say, no law may be passed that UNREASONABLY abridges the freedom of speech, it says no law may be passed that abridges it (period). The question is, whether the Court has the authority to change the law that much, since, technically, it is not their place to rule on the reasonableness or practicallity of laws, but rather their legality. Is that what the Constitution means, or isn't it, is what they are supposed to be ruling on. And in this case, the wording is written in such absolute terms that it leaves little room for interpretation.

    It would be illegal for the Supreme Court to interpret other laws that broadly. For example, they can't interpret the 15th Amendment:

    quote:

    The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.


    ... they can't look at that and say, well, it SAYS the right to vote MAY NOT BE DENIED OR ABRIDGED because of race, but, actually, there are there these certain abridgements due to race that we will place, because we think they are reasonable. The Supreme Court would be subverting the law if they interpreted it like THAT, right? "May not be denied or abridged because of race" MEANS "may not be denied or abridged because of race". It does NOT mean, may be somewhat denied or abridged because of race.

    Nor could the courts have taken this law:

    quote:

    After one year from the ratification of this article the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all territory to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes, is hereby prohibited.


    ... they couldn't have looked at that and said, well, it SAYS alcoholic beverages are prohibited, but actually we're going to make an exception for THESE alcoholic beverages, or for THESE parts of the United States, because we reckon that that's reasonable. It would have been illegal for the courts to interpret the law like that, because the law is clear and does not allow for that interpretation.

    i believe the same is true for the 1st Amendment. It's exact wording does not allow for the interpretation the courts are giving it. They are not "interpreting" the law, they are changing the law, essentially legislating from the bench.

    pam


    < Message edited by gungadin09 -- 9/29/2011 12:15:21 PM >

    (in reply to gungadin09)
    Profile   Post #: 132
    RE: A question for Constitutional scholar types. - 9/29/2011 3:04:06 PM   
    tazzygirl


    Posts: 37833
    Joined: 10/12/2007
    Status: offline
    quote:

    Article II. Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every Power, Jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.


    Yet, it was the States who asked for the Bill of Rights and ratified them

    Text of the Bill of Rights
    Preamble
    Congress of the United States begun and held at the City of New-York, on Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine
    THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.
    RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all, or any of which Articles, when ratified by three fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution; viz.
    ARTICLES in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America, proposed by Congress, and ratified by the Legislatures of the several States, pursuant to the fifth Article of the original Constitution.[55]

    _____________________________

    Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
    RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
    Duchess of Dissent 1
    Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
    If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

    (in reply to Real0ne)
    Profile   Post #: 133
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