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America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 11:25:21 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		A couple of months ago in a thread, someone had the temerity to state that people should wait until they can afford it to have children.  What an uproar that created among the usual suspects!  In any case, turns out they may have been right.  But in this article, they make the argument that there is an additional factor to consider.  If professional women "should" have children, then we need to make it easier for them to do so.


http://www.slate.com/id/2304649/

Since the average American woman has 2.1 children, you might think we aren't experiencing a national fertility crisis. Unlike some European countries whose futures are threatened by low birth rates, Americans, on average, produce just the right number of future workers, soldiers, and taxpayers to keep our society humming. Our families are also, on average, comfortably smaller than those in some developing countries, where high birthrates help keep women and children severely impoverished. But here's the problem: Because the American fertility rate is an average, it obscures the fact that our country is actually more like two countries, which are now experiencing two different, serious crises.

Laissez les bons temps rouler!


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Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 11:33:57 AM   
tolovetolaugh


Posts: 648
Joined: 4/30/2008
Status: offline 		Sounds like Idiocracy will come to pass!

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 11:38:14 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Indeed.  Hell, I might have had another kid if I could have gotten 18 months leave.  Doesn't really work that way, though.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tolovetolaugh

Sounds like Idiocracy will come to pass!


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 11:46:36 AM   
tolovetolaugh


Posts: 648
Joined: 4/30/2008
Status: offline 		Seriously though, not knocking the poor, but the fact that the less then smart women are the ones who allow themselves to constantly add to the gene pool, is a bit worrying.

And then you have the rocket scientists and doctors, who are to busy to have a child.


< Message edited by tolovetolaugh -- 9/27/2011 11:47:10 AM >

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That which yields, is not always weak. —
Jacqueline Carey (Kushiel's Dart)

I wrote a porn!
http://www.collarchat.com/m_3840531

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:07:57 PM   
SuzeCheri


Posts: 483
Joined: 7/19/2011
From: Outside looking in
Status: offline 		The whole idea of a fertility crisis is sort of ludicrous. How could any country's future be threatened by a low birth rate when there is such an enormous surplus of people in the world. If you don't have enough people being born in your country to maintain your society (a concept I find hard to accept anyway), then just increase immigration, they have plenty of people to spare in Africa and Asia.

There are more than enough people to go around already, it's not like there's a shortage. Nobody needs to be having any extra kids.

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:09:49 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		What are all those people going to do for a living? There are going to be fewer jobs in the future, not more.

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:13:34 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		I couldn't agree with you more, Suze, that is the way I have always seen it.  I have always failed to see the benefit of a continually growing population.  Nonetheless, the population of the US is supposed to increase about 20%, as I recall, before it peaks, a lot of that from immigration.  I think the real point of the article, though, is the additional classification created by the current demographics.

"Creating jobs" is a joke.
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri

The whole idea of a fertility crisis is sort of ludicrous. How could any country's future be threatened by a low birth rate when there is such an enormous surplus of people in the world. If you don't have enough people being born in your country to maintain your society (a concept I find hard to accept anyway), then just increase immigration, they have plenty of people to spare in Africa and Asia.

There are more than enough people to go around already, it's not like there's a shortage. Nobody needs to be having any extra kids.



_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:14:02 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri

The whole idea of a fertility crisis is sort of ludicrous. How could any country's future be threatened by a low birth rate when there is such an enormous surplus of people in the world. If you don't have enough people being born in your country to maintain your society (a concept I find hard to accept anyway), then just increase immigration, they have plenty of people to spare in Africa and Asia.

There are more than enough people to go around already, it's not like there's a shortage. Nobody needs to be having any extra kids.


maybe they are not seen as the right kinda people by some??? I have long said Canada (& US too) needs to increase immigration (especially when people bitch about the health care system and pensions),... sigh... most dont agree with me tho..

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:17:08 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		We are increasing immigration, just ask anyone in SoCal, Arizona, or Texas!

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:24:45 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

We are increasing immigration, just ask anyone in SoCal, Arizona, or Texas!

that might come to an end, or major reduction if certain things happen..

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:29:33 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		The problem is, immigration in those places is of an underclass to do jobs "Americans" supposedly won't do.  Once here, the immigrants have little opportunity to improve their lot.  Importing serfs is not what immigration is supposed to be about.



_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:37:30 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

The problem is, immigration in those places is of an underclass to do jobs "Americans" supposedly won't do.  Once here, the immigrants have little opportunity to improve their lot.  Importing serfs is not what immigration is supposed to be about.





It's not that Americans won't do the jobs, it's that Americans (thanks to unions) no longer accept sweatshop conditions and poor wages. Plenty of Americans would do domestic work, child minding, general labor, all manner of things. I have clients who hire illegals to work for them, at a lower wage than they pay their regular men.

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:38:33 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Which is my point.  We are creating a permanent underclass.  

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:40:57 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
It's not that Americans won't do the jobs, it's that Americans (thanks to unions) no longer accept sweatshop conditions and poor wages. Plenty of Americans would do domestic work, child minding, general labor, all manner of things. I have clients who hire illegals to work for them, at a lower wage than they pay their regular men.

just out of curiousity, are those clients (that hire illegals and pay less) Hispanic themselves or speak spanish? Imo its hard for an only english speaking person to hire an only spanish speaking worker..


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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:42:51 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Nope. Just your basic caucasians, but the Hispanic citizens on the crew can help them out. MANY foreign workers in metro Detroit don't speak English. I'm okay with it, but I still shake my head when I think that the first thing my dad did when he came to the states (in 1954) was go to school to learn English!

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:43:04 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Which is my point.  We are creating a permanent underclass.  

how would you see solving that?

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:43:53 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Which is my point.  We are creating a permanent underclass.  

how would you see solving that?



Let us know, there could be a Nobel prize in economics in it for ya!

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:44:29 PM   
EmilyRocks


Posts: 357
Joined: 5/5/2011
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quote:

I have long said Canada (& US too) needs to increase immigration
Or you could all just go back where you came from. 

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:49:00 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmilyRocks

quote:

I have long said Canada (& US too) needs to increase immigration
Or you could all just go back where you came from. 

I came from a glimmer in my father's eye..

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RE: America's fertility crisis - 9/27/2011 12:49:19 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		It is fundamentally unfair to import workers and pay them less and make them live in horrid conditions, which is certainly the case with agricultural workers.  Either raise the standards for immigrant farm workers, which would also have the affect of making these jobs more desirable to Americans. 

There was an article in my local paper about a strawberry farmer who got the shit fined out of him for using 6 year old farm workers.  The comments to the article were all about "I picked strawberries when I was a kid, so I could buy my first bike."  Stuff like that.  All I could think was, how stupid.  This isn't some little kid working for a bike, he or she is working because his family needs every hand to survive.  That just seems wrong to me.  Plus the fact that employers get away with this keeps American kids now from picking strawberries (or detasseling corn, or picking turkeys) so they can earn a bike.  Not that I think 6 year olds should be working in the fields anyway.

All of which is a little far afield from what this thread started out about.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Which is my point.  We are creating a permanent underclass.  

how would you see solving that?


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to tj444)
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