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RE: Bullies - 9/30/2011 8:20:06 AM

Iamsemisweet

Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
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My ex husband had the attitude you describe,Lizi, despite being an excellent parent in many ways. He refused to intervene when the oldest picked on the youngest, and would not cooperate with any attempt on my part to discipline the oldest. So now, my tow sons relationship is kind of like how mine was with my brother. Sad again.q Since this was such hot button issue for me, it affected my relationship with both my oldest son and my ex.
I am visiting my 88 yo mother next wek, and I am thinking of discussing her lack of assistance with her. I haven't decided yet.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to lizi)

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Post #: 41

RE: Bullies - 9/30/2011 11:05:43 AM

NiceGuyNihilist

Posts: 194
Joined: 3/25/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

<nice on-topic reply to the op>

I can't stand bullies, and I'd say that more or less every fight I've ever got into has been either as a result of standing up to a bully or defending someone else from a bully.

Indeed, even on these boards, when I see obnoxious attempts at bullying or shouting down, I'm inclined to respond. It's a terrible shame that the posts these ass-wipes make are so often pulled, as it denies the rest of us the chance to see them for who they are.

Sure, a lot of bullies are acting out of some insecurity (the jock bullies the nerd because in his heart, he knows the nerd will do better in life etc) but NiceGuyNihilist makes an important point that some bullies really do behave that way out of a, misplaced no doubt, sense of superiority.

In the context of BDSM there are clearly some dudes out there who self-describe as dominant who seem obviously to me (and I appreciate that this is a highly subjective view) to be deeply insecure bullies and there are others that genuinely believe that they're entitled to behave in a bullying way. The "difficulty" this creates is that I think there are some (and I believe it to be a small number) of subs who for whatever reason (perhaps it's low self esteem too...) are drawn to bullies. I've even seen cases where what seems to me to be a relationship that is wholly based on bullying and abuse is described by the sub as something approaching perfection.

Like NiceGuyNihilist, I tend to despise the people who could act (and it has to be said that there are some cases where taking action would make things worse) against bullies but do nothing as much, or even a little more, than the bullies themselves.

"Silence--
Somethin' about silence makes me sick.
'Cause silence can be violent,
Sorta like a slit wrist."

--Rage Against The Machine

When you find yourself in a group situation in which even a tiny percentage of the group begins talking in a way that is repugnant to you, and you remain silent, you are not being neutral. Neutrality is not an option. By default, the silent members of a group collectively function as a platform for the speakers; a silent, attentive body adds beef to the speakers' frames. I'm not so naive as to think I have a chance of injecting a spine or heart into a gutless swine by voicing my contempt for him, but what I will not stand for is being thought, for even a microsecond, to be approving or indifferent by anyone else who happens to be in earshot. The very possibility fills me with a sense of suffocation, of having Saran wrap pulled tight over my face and a hideous mask painted over. Imagine how it might look to a timid but golden-hearted woman with a new puppy who happens to overhear the conversation: here are a couple of guys laughing about kicking dogs, dumping dogs, and shooting dogs, and several more guys standing around, listening silently. I'm one of the silent listeners. I glance in her direction. Our gazes only meet briefly, but in that meeting I see her perception of me, and it slices my heart. To her, I'm just another one of the pigs--cowardly, callous, inhumane. Beneath the mask, I'm screaming. I'm in agony. I want her to know me. Please know me. But she only sees the laughing pig mask, and that's no fault of hers. My silence is to blame.

It's even possible, in this hypothetical situation, that my 6'6", 240-pound silent presence would be the deciding factor in convincing her not to raise her own voice of opposition. No. No, no, no, no, no. The good ones, the tiny minority, the worthwhile exceptions, will know that I'm on their side, that my strength is their strength. Always. I will never wear that filthy mask.

_____________________________

“Consider it: every person you have ever met, every person will suffer the loss of his friends and family. All are going to lose everything they love in this world. Why would one want to be anything but kind to them in the meantime?"

Sam Harris

(in reply to crazyml)

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Post #: 42

RE: Bullies - 9/30/2011 11:19:34 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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I have to agree with you there. I would rather piss off friends or family, be the odd one out, for standing up for what I believe.

I've done it more often than I wish I had to.

And.......I wish I had the self confidence to do it, a lot earlier in life.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 9/30/2011 11:20:20 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to NiceGuyNihilist)

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Post #: 43

RE: Bullies - 9/30/2011 2:34:53 PM

lizi

Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
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See, I almost wonder if the bullying happens as older children and then adults because it starts in the home when we are very young. We may learn it then as a response and as a mechanism to use on others. I wonder if parents were more proactive at home if it might not fade a bit more into the background of things that don't happen so much when the kids grow up and get to school and of course beyond that. It's so common that I"ve seen people like your ex, who just accept that bullying is part of the childhood experience, and they don't think twice as to putting a stop to it or teaching something else more useful (conflict resolution). It's almost as though if it were a part of your life growing up then you don't tend to see it happen when you are the one in charge and raising your own kids. My SIL does the same thing. She is my one and only bff, and I cannot stand that she lets her 2 daughters attack each other verbally and physically. It's a constant topic between us and I find myself saying something about it quite frequently. Just for the record, she and her sister were constant enemies when they were younger, and it was definitely part of her landscape growing up.

I have a next-door neighbor whose 3 kids loathe each other. Absolutely detest one another and make no secrets about it. Everything is quite visible and audible...sheesh. Over the years she always complimented me on how well my boys treat each other and stand up for one another, and I just don't get why she doesn't see that she could probably have that same thing with some work on her part, but instead she accepts the back-biting and physical attacks that her kids do to each other.

Good luck on deciding to talk with your mother or not. That may be very difficult, and not something I'm sure I'd take on myself, but I'm sure with some introspection you'll see if it's the right thing to do or not. Hard to say whether she will open up to you or still be invested in not seeing her participation in how she handled things.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

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Post #: 44