RE: I renounce Christianity

RE: I renounce Christianity (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/1/2011 10:53:26 PM)
quote: EPD: To be honest, at this point I am inclined to believe that everything in the New Testament is a fabrication. http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/arch-nt.html

LafayetteLady -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/1/2011 10:55:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri I'm not being disrespectful, nor am I lowering myself either. It's just the truth. The idea just makes no sense whatsoever (which is what nonsense/nonsensical means, isn't it?). You may as well say I wouldn't recognize that I was downstairs until I had been upstairs. No, I'm saying that you obviously are not understanding what I'm trying to say. Recently just developed another kidney stone and all the fun that goes with it, as well as heading toward kidney failure (again) and have been dealing with insomnia for a while, so it is quite possible I'm not being as clear as I would normally. It also means that I'm not clearly understanding how what you are saying would be possible, hence my posts on how immortality could work, given what I see are serious potential issues that would naturally arise. And yes, there are a couple that are being a bit argumentative, and you are getting a bit snarky with them. I don't necessarily blame you, I want to bitch slap some people for their snarkiness. But responding back with snarkiness just isn't going to further things, even when you are tired of the nonsense and want to bitch slap them. You have achieved what I didn't think was possible here. You started a thread on religion and for the most part, everyone has been able to act like adults and have a very interesting exchange of thoughts (again except for a couple of people on both sides of the belief/non belief). Most religion threads devolve into people being rude and obnoxious to each other because they can't brow beat/insult them into their beliefs. You have conducted yourself with a great deal of maturity and intelligence. Any snarkiness (from you or others) tends to have the effect of negating what you say regardless of whether it made sense or not. I would seriously like you to find answers and peace, although I fear that only time is every going to do that.

SuzeCheri -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/1/2011 10:56:57 PM)
Interesting, but proves nothing.

Kirata -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/1/2011 10:59:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Sadly for your argument, I made no attempt to define either 'good' or 'evil'. No need to. In both your statement of the claim and the first point of your argument you refer to "a God of pure goodness." "Pure" goodness is perfect goodness. That's what sets up the trick: an association between perfection and goodness. quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle My argument doesn't rely on a particular definition of either good or evil is adopted. You bet it doesn't. And why bother? Your argument has nothing to do with good and evil. quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle my argument relies on 'good' and 'evil' being mutually exclusionary values You mean the illusion relies on using good and evil as proxies for perfection and imperfection, which are mutually exclusive. With good and evil it's not always so easy to say... And that's where it fails. Christianity doesn't claim that the world is perfect. K.

tazzygirl -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/1/2011 11:01:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri Interesting, but proves nothing. Hmmm... you stated the New Testament was fiction. Actually, what you said was.... I am inclined to believe that everything in the New Testament is a fabrication. The site proves there is much within the New testament which is not fiction, including the presence of Jesus... Im sure a smart cookie like you can connect the dots.

SuzeCheri -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/1/2011 11:13:58 PM)
quote: "Pure" goodness is perfect goodness. That's what sets up the trick: an association between perfection and goodness. I don't think I have ever disagreed with you, but there is always a first time. Pure goodness means only that it is unalloyed, unmixed with anything, nothing but goodness, there is no trace of evil for example. That it has anything to do with perfection is an association you are making that isn't inherent in what she said. This time you are making something up wholesale. What you say is there just isn't.

Kirata -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/1/2011 11:37:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri I don't think I have ever disagreed with you, but there is always a first time. Pure goodness means only that it is unalloyed, unmixed with anything, nothing but goodness, there is no trace of evil for example. That it has anything to do with perfection is an association you are making that isn't inherent in what she said. Well, what must be must be... But lemme try to save us from this horrible state of affairs. [:D] Synomyms for pure include flawless, perfect Synomyms for perfect include pure, faultless How could pure goodness be other than perfectly good, or perfect goodness be other than pure? K.

Real0ne -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/1/2011 11:46:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri Interesting, but proves nothing. Hmmm... you stated the New Testament was fiction. Actually, what you said was.... I am inclined to believe that everything in the New Testament is a fabrication. The site proves there is much within the New testament which is not fiction, including the presence of Jesus... Im sure a smart cookie like you can connect the dots. Thats not what this is about, its about her playing dodgeball and simply being obtuse. States her points then when they are invalidated defaults to claiming off topic. [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/stuff/big_headed_tiny_dog_chasing_tail_lg_nwm.gif[/image] several people have made earnest attempts to help and given her superb advice all of which she summarily rejects. This appears to be nothing more than bait and switch game under the veil of poor traumatized me. I no longer buy it. Probably has a bet with heather how many pages she can keep it going.[8\|] yes yes I know its not the op LOL

tazzygirl -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/1/2011 11:47:43 PM)
LOL even the OP cant stay on topic

SuzeCheri -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/1/2011 11:49:40 PM)
Because synonyms are not automatically interchangeable, there are nuances and also alternate secondary meanings. Pure does not always mean the same thing as perfect, they are not always interchangeable. In a purely semantic discussion, this would be perfectly clear.

SuzeCheri -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/1/2011 11:54:01 PM)
quote: several people have made earnest attempts to help and given her superb advice all of which she summarily rejects. Because I never asked for or wanted help nor was I seeking advice. They, like you, didn't understand what the thread is about. What do you think the thread is about?

Edwynn -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/1/2011 11:55:53 PM)
The universe decides the matter, not any human-created fiction. If people and animals and trees die, then that is a product of where the universe stands at the moment. There is some scientific investigation and actual results into the issue of sub-atomic particles possessing "intelligence", further implication of spiritual underpinning of matter and energy, etc. I don't know why we expect the universe or God or whoever to have it all figured out at once. If you are perfect, then I suppose you might reasonably expect the same from the universe, God, or both. Please chime in here.

Real0ne -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/1/2011 11:58:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri quote: several people have made earnest attempts to help and given her superb advice all of which she summarily rejects. Because I never asked for or wanted help nor was I seeking advice. They, like you, didn't understand what the thread is about. What do you think the thread is about? its about your rejection of Christianity and God based on poorly ill-framed premises. What do you think its about?

SuzeCheri -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/2/2011 12:04:33 AM)
Its about my rejection of Christianity, BUT NOT GOD, based on very well framed and apparently very ancient issues, that have bedevilled greater minds than yours for a long time, with the inherent contradictions between the nature of god as espoused by Christianity and reality.

Real0ne -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/2/2011 12:09:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri Its about my rejection of Christianity, BUT NOT GOD, based on very well framed and apparently very ancient issues, that have bedevilled greater minds than yours for a long time, with the inherent contradictions between the nature of god as espoused by Christianity and reality. ` well then answer the murder question happy meal. and of course your above statement "proving" you dodged the point and fibbed us when you said it was off topic. shame shame. gonna dodge it again you little bedeviller you?

tweakabelle -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/2/2011 12:20:49 AM)
quote: quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Sadly for your argument, I made no attempt to define either 'good' or 'evil'. No need to. In both your statement of the claim and the first point of your argument you refer to "a God of pure goodness." "Pure" goodness is perfect goodness. That's what sets up the trick: an association between perfection and goodness. The "God of pure goodness" isn't my claim. It's the Christian claim. Your point is specious. Which could well be more than can be said for the rest of your post - which amounts to little more than twaddle. For example: quote: And that's where [your argument] fails. Christianity doesn't claim that the world is perfect. Again I'm not making a claim the world is perfect. I'm not saying a thing about the world. The only person mentioning the world is you. I am saying something about the Christian claims about their version of God. Christians claim their God is perfect, omnipotent, all-loving, omnibenevolent...... It seems you have nothing better to offer than a strawman argument. Boring! Please find some one else to indulge your strawman fantasies.

Edwynn -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/2/2011 12:46:55 AM)
Yes, the thrashing of the dead horse thing here. Some person doing the same thing as was done by thousands of others more than 800 years ago, proclaiming it as a new insight, in fact only new to her. Pardon my loud snoring here.

Edwynn -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/2/2011 12:56:00 AM)
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SuzeCheri -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/2/2011 12:58:45 AM)
quote: So since you want to get into good and evil what about all the living biological creatures etc that you ingest every day. You murder them. and you continue to murder them today tomorrow and in the future. Most people on the planet would agree that murder is evil. They did not have a choice in the matter, and you wasted them, therefore you are a murderer and must be evil. Now what if you were somethings happy meal? Seems you have a problem. Or do all those creatures etc welcome death as "good" so you can live? Now what? This one? I did answer it, you asked "now what" and I gave you an answer (I thank you because...). If that wasn't what you were asking, what exactly were you asking?

Kirata -> RE: I renounce Christianity (10/2/2011 1:25:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri Because synonyms are not automatically interchangeable, there are nuances and also alternate secondary meanings. Pure does not always mean the same thing as perfect, they are not always interchangeable. Your disagreement is noted and accepted. But here's one of those nuances: I never claimed they were "always" or "automatically" interchangeable. Good and evil are not so easily classed as mutually exclusive. Some actions may partake of both. But the argument requires mutual exclusivity. So to create (the illusion of) mutual exclusivity it contrasts "pure goodness" with evil, trying to have its way by playing on two fields at once. The opposite of "pure goodness" isn't evil, it's "pure evil." And to go there fully would transfer the argument into an abstract world of absolutes, destroying the illusion of it having any relevance to reality. So to pull off the trick of making it appear to work, it has to cheat. That said, I'm not trying to defend Christian doctrine here. My objection is solely to the argument being advanced against it. K.

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