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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/3/2011 3:46:39 PM   
Lucylastic


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well it would be if you stop quoting the twerp


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Profile   Post #: 181
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/3/2011 4:00:41 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Nah, war is an extension of politics by other means. Of the already executed propositions dangerous to american liberty, this pales.

True to an extent.  However, it's hard not to see a targeted murder of an American citizen without judicial review as anything other than a "bright line" in our political and legal history.

What if the next President decides that the bomb-thowing "Arkansas Militia" leader is a "clear and present danger" to the US Government and targets him for execution?

Later, it's the Baptists for Peace leadership ... then the top four deacons?

Or the leadership of the ACLU?

The Communist Party of the USA?

Then the Democratic/Republican Party leadership?

We now have a legal precedence.

Firm



So it's ok to torture and kill terrorists without the rule of law as long as those terrorists aren't American?

Why do I get the impression that you be would applauding this if Bush had done it?





< Message edited by rulemylife -- 10/3/2011 4:02:59 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 182
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/3/2011 4:39:52 PM   
Sanity


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Its good and funny to see mnot blubbering over someone elses supposed sentence fragments, isnt it 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

ever read rons posts?


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Profile   Post #: 183
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/3/2011 4:56:48 PM   
luckydawg


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Not half as funny as him pretending that he is not aware that Obama had Alwaki tracked down, targeted and killed with no due process at all.

He even is trying to pretend it was "fog of war"......




and domken.....PFC Manning is Obama's torture victim.....

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Profile   Post #: 184
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/3/2011 5:00:42 PM   
Lucylastic


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considering you were whining about weiner molesting children, you are the last one to complain about ANYONE else saying things about ANYTHING
welcome back dawgy

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Profile   Post #: 185
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/3/2011 5:06:23 PM   
FirmhandKY


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FR:

Hey guys (ladies) ... over the last couple of pages, I feel like this thread is at, or approaching the "off limits" area that VAA has warned us about.

How about we quit the sniping, and either ignore the slighting comments and get back on topic, or just stop posting, before the thread is locked?

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 186
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/3/2011 5:23:32 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
This President said no more torture. If he has violated that committment then I want to hear about it, and so should you since there is no surer way to have liberals stay home next November. If you're simply assuming this administration is made up of loyal fanatics right down to the guy doing the torture so that there have beenno leaks you naivety is showing.

You made an extraordinary claim so present some evidenc or get used to not being believed.



Why do you keep bringing up torture and attributing it to me?

I never mentioned torture....not at all... you keep bringing it up!

I do not think in anyway President Obama is using torture on anyone, anywhere.

But to think as Commander in Chief of the United States, he is not authorizing enhanced interrogation techniques is foolish.


States have secrets.... why do you refuse to believe this?

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Profile   Post #: 187
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/4/2011 7:30:53 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Not half as funny as him pretending that he is not aware that Obama had Alwaki tracked down, targeted and killed with no due process at all.

He even is trying to pretend it was "fog of war"......




and domken.....PFC Manning is Obama's torture victim.....



Here is a fellow who lies and pretends that he has some knowledge.

Well, fair enough, show us the credible proof that Obama (and I quote)

had Alwaki tracked down, targeted and killed with no due process at all.

You either are lying or you have credible citations from eyewitnesses.

Which is it?

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Profile   Post #: 188
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/4/2011 7:34:22 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
This President said no more torture. If he has violated that committment then I want to hear about it, and so should you since there is no surer way to have liberals stay home next November. If you're simply assuming this administration is made up of loyal fanatics right down to the guy doing the torture so that there have beenno leaks you naivety is showing.

You made an extraordinary claim so present some evidenc or get used to not being believed.



Why do you keep bringing up torture and attributing it to me?

I never mentioned torture....not at all... you keep bringing it up!

I do not think in anyway President Obama is using torture on anyone, anywhere.

But to think as Commander in Chief of the United States, he is not authorizing enhanced interrogation techniques is foolish.


States have secrets.... why do you refuse to believe this?

States have secrets but the US should never torture, no matter what bullshit euphemism you use for it, and I damn well want to know if we are.

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Profile   Post #: 189
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/4/2011 3:04:45 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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Euphemism.... there that word is again too!

Torture is torture, enhanced interrogation techniques are enhanced interrogation techniques. They are two different things.

The United States of America is, at this moment, somewhere in the world using enhanced interrogation techniques. How is it you simply cannot get your head around that???


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Profile   Post #: 190
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/4/2011 4:17:14 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Euphemism.... there that word is again too!

Torture is torture, enhanced interrogation techniques are enhanced interrogation techniques. They are two different things.

The United States of America is, at this moment, somewhere in the world using enhanced interrogation techniques. How is it you simply cannot get your head around that???



Because it is against the law if we are. It is also against the stated policy of the President.

BTW I dare you to define "enhanced interrogation techniques" because we all know if you do it will be clear you really mean torture.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/4/2011 4:24:17 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
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It is funny to see FDD using a PC term to wriggle out of having to use the proper term.
I thought it was supposed to be a liberal "disease""


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Profile   Post #: 192
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/4/2011 4:32:25 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Torture is torture, enhanced interrogation techniques are enhanced interrogation techniques. They are two different things.




To use your own words the above is "Way beyond naive"

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Profile   Post #: 193
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/4/2011 9:44:55 PM   
luckydawg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Not half as funny as him pretending that he is not aware that Obama had Alwaki tracked down, targeted and killed with no due process at all.

He even is trying to pretend it was "fog of war"......




and domken.....PFC Manning is Obama's torture victim.....



Here is a fellow who lies and pretends that he has some knowledge.

Well, fair enough, show us the credible proof that Obama (and I quote)

had Alwaki tracked down, targeted and killed with no due process at all.

You either are lying or you have credible citations from eyewitnesses.

Which is it?



So you make demands for eyewitnesses? Are you going to start yammering about circumcision now?

SO you got me in a stupid game, of course I can't present you an eye witness.

However every story about the incident states that Obamas DOJ produced a memo justifying his killing with no trial, and no can read it. Then he was tracked with help from the torturing Yemeni Government and killed along with 3 other people who were not on the Obama death list.

There was no Fog of War. to state there was is simply asinine. He was put on a list to be killed tracked down and killed.

With no sort of Due Process at all.


And you know it.



as was already stated by someone else.

I am glad the fucker is dead.

the hypocrisy being exposed by the folks who hampered our war against these scumbags, by screaming Due Process and it wasn't a war but was a Criminal issue, is just gravy.




< Message edited by luckydawg -- 10/4/2011 10:10:46 PM >


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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/4/2011 10:53:44 PM   
gman992


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Can't wait to see the lawsuit on this one...

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Profile   Post #: 195
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/4/2011 11:06:39 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
This President said no more torture. If he has violated that committment then I want to hear about it, and so should you since there is no surer way to have liberals stay home next November. If you're simply assuming this administration is made up of loyal fanatics right down to the guy doing the torture so that there have beenno leaks you naivety is showing.

You made an extraordinary claim so present some evidenc or get used to not being believed.



Why do you keep bringing up torture and attributing it to me?

I never mentioned torture....not at all... you keep bringing it up!

I do not think in anyway President Obama is using torture on anyone, anywhere.

But to think as Commander in Chief of the United States, he is not authorizing enhanced interrogation techniques is foolish.


States have secrets.... why do you refuse to believe this?

States have secrets but the US should never torture, no matter what bullshit euphemism you use for it, and I damn well want to know if we are.


come on you arent truly that naive?


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Profile   Post #: 196
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/4/2011 11:16:49 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gman992

Can't wait to see the lawsuit on this one...


assassination has always been the policy of this military gubafia.

you know "commander-in-Chief" nothing like a military commander as "leader" of the US.

Confessions of an Economic Hit Man - Part I

Oh and btw, "in-chief" has a very specific legal meaning.  Its why no one can sue a fucking president and actually get into and through the courts.


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 10/4/2011 11:18:59 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to gman992)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/6/2011 8:29:12 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Nah, war is an extension of politics by other means. Of the already executed propositions dangerous to american liberty, this pales.

True to an extent.  However, it's hard not to see a targeted murder of an American citizen without judicial review as anything other than a "bright line" in our political and legal history.

What if the next President decides that the bomb-thowing "Arkansas Militia" leader is a "clear and present danger" to the US Government and targets him for execution?

Later, it's the Baptists for Peace leadership ... then the top four deacons?

Or the leadership of the ACLU?

The Communist Party of the USA?

Then the Democratic/Republican Party leadership?

We now have a legal precedence.


So it's ok to torture and kill terrorists without the rule of law as long as those terrorists aren't American?

Why do I get the impression that you be would applauding this if Bush had done it?


My position is that as a legal issue, it's an important distinction.  We can argue the morality of it, but from a purely American legal point of view, you are correct "torture and killing" of non-American citizen terrorists is quite a separate issue from "torture and killing" of American citizens who may be terrorists.

Firm




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Profile   Post #: 198
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/6/2011 8:56:17 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, fair enough, show us the credible proof that Obama (and I quote)

had Alwaki tracked down, targeted and killed with no due process at all.


Secret panel can put Americans on "kill list'

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - American militants like Anwar al-Awlaki are placed on a kill or capture list by a secretive panel of senior government officials, which then informs the president of its decisions, according to officials.

There is no public record of the operations or decisions of the panel, which is a subset of the White House's National Security Council, several current and former officials said. Neither is there any law establishing its existence or setting out the rules by which it is supposed to operate.

The panel was behind the decision to add Awlaki, a U.S.-born militant preacher with alleged al Qaeda connections, to the target list. He was killed by a CIA drone strike in Yemen late last month.

The role of the president in ordering or ratifying a decision to target a citizen is fuzzy. White House spokesman Tommy Vietor declined to discuss anything about the process.

Current and former officials said that to the best of their knowledge, Awlaki, who the White House said was a key figure in al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, al Qaeda's Yemen-based affiliate, had been the only American put on a government list targeting people for capture or death due to their alleged involvement with militants.

The White House is portraying the killing of Awlaki as a demonstration of President Barack Obama's toughness toward militants who threaten the United States. But the process that led to Awlaki's killing has drawn fierce criticism from both the political left and right.

In an ironic turn, Obama, who ran for president denouncing predecessor George W. Bush's expansive use of executive power in his "war on terrorism," is being attacked in some quarters for using similar tactics. They include secret legal justifications and undisclosed intelligence assessments.

Liberals criticized the drone attack on an American citizen as extra-judicial murder.

A few points:

The process is secret, therefore being able to definitively point to something will be difficult, other than the fact that the administration is not denying it, and seems to be acknowledging that 1) they put him on the list and 2) he was killed by a planned US drone strike.

What I find interesting also is the last sentence above.  Looks like I have some backup when I claim that I am a "liberal" after all.

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 199
RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 10/6/2011 9:06:25 AM   
mnottertail


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Nice op ed. Senior officials.......... uh, anyone with guts thats got a name, or... here is some more 'credible proofs' of something...

http://www.prosecutionofbush.com/

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/6/2011 9:07:41 AM >


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Profile   Post #: 200
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