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TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led... - 9/30/2011 8:42:54 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Two American militants, including senior Al Qaeda leader Anwar al-Awlaki, were killed in Yemen early Friday morning by a CIA-led U.S. drone strike, marking the highest-profile takedown of terror leaders since the raid on Usama bin Laden's compound.

Fox News has learned that two Predator drones hovering above al-Awlaki's convoy fired the Hellfire missiles which killed the terror leader. According to a senior U.S. official, the operation was carried out by Joint Special Operations Command, under the direction of the CIA.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/09/30/us-born-terror-boss-anwar-al-awlaki-killed/?google_editors_picks=true

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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 10:17:00 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Two American militants, including senior Al Qaeda leader Anwar al-Awlaki, were killed in Yemen early Friday morning by a CIA-led U.S. drone strike, marking the highest-profile takedown of terror leaders since the raid on Usama bin Laden's compound.

Fox News has learned that two Predator drones hovering above al-Awlaki's convoy fired the Hellfire missiles which killed the terror leader. According to a senior U.S. official, the operation was carried out by Joint Special Operations Command, under the direction of the CIA.

Perhaps a Rubicon has been crossed.

"It would be difficult to conceive of a proposition more inconsistent with the Constitution or more dangerous to American liberty."

Firm


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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 10:24:25 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		lolfauxoutrage!

The "Rule of Law" has been disregarded for a long time, and it's too late to be whining about its loss at this late date.

We tried to warn you that letting people get away with torture had side-effects you weren't considering. Here they are.



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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 10:28:56 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Two American militants, including senior Al Qaeda leader Anwar al-Awlaki, were killed in Yemen early Friday morning by a CIA-led U.S. drone strike, marking the highest-profile takedown of terror leaders since the raid on Usama bin Laden's compound.

Fox News has learned that two Predator drones hovering above al-Awlaki's convoy fired the Hellfire missiles which killed the terror leader. According to a senior U.S. official, the operation was carried out by Joint Special Operations Command, under the direction of the CIA.

Perhaps a Rubicon has been crossed.

"It would be difficult to conceive of a proposition more inconsistent with the Constitution or more dangerous to American liberty."

Firm




Nah, war is an extension of politics by other means. Of the already executed propositions dangerous to american liberty, this pales.

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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 10:33:10 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		nods. I have very mixed feelings about this, as a pacifist as a liberal as "sick of terrrorist scum" as the next person. I dont have the issue of the constitution/US law to hamper my feelings tho Firm, so I am not going to be part of the rules/laws debate because ...its gonna be mostly along political lines, and parts of law I really dont wanna understand and I know no body is going to change my mind or my opinion.
I just wanted to put it out there for people to discuss what happens now...


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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 10:43:04 AM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		The guy wanted to kill me and mine. He's better off gone to his 'reward.'

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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 11:36:15 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Nah, war is an extension of politics by other means. Of the already executed propositions dangerous to american liberty, this pales.

True to an extent.  However, it's hard not to see a targeted murder of an American citizen without judicial review as anything other than a "bright line" in our political and legal history.

What if the next President decides that the bomb-thowing "Arkansas Militia" leader is a "clear and present danger" to the US Government and targets him for execution?

Later, it's the Baptists for Peace leadership ... then the top four deacons?

Or the leadership of the ACLU?

The Communist Party of the USA?

Then the Democratic/Republican Party leadership?

We now have a legal precedence.

Firm


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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 11:43:17 AM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

lolfauxoutrage!

The "Rule of Law" has been disregarded for a long time, and it's too late to be whining about its loss at this late date.

We tried to warn you that letting people get away with torture had side-effects you weren't considering. Here they are.




And where the hell did you go once you got control? Serious dude cause I helped you vote people in over the Patriot Act and the bs that slid by with it. Friggin disappeared is where you went, the instant a dem became president.

Warning? I smelled that kind of warning yesterday when I got out of truck next to a cow pasture.


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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 11:45:42 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Oh, yeah, its a sloppy slope fer shure.

One president incarcerates and entire state legislature, after starting a war with americans.
Another president lend-leases his way into a world war in defiance of congress.
Another president drops an atomic bomb.
Another president trades arms for hostages, something that would be considered treason if performed by an american serviceman of lesser rank, but not the commander in chief.
Another president invades a soveriegn country under false pretenses, and then prosecutes a formal policy of torture.
Another president says if you want to get killed according to the Constitution turn yourself in otherwise there is no trial, either way you are dead.


It is like Marilyn Chambers said when she swallowed Johnny 'the Wad' Holmes.

"Meh, it's just another act."

And I am sure there is more to come.

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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 12:02:11 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Firm,I can see the issues....but in this case I just don't give a shit.Does that give me pause....yeah,but than I realize who we are talking about now...and the larger big picture argument goes out the window.
And I would still feel this way if a Republican was sitting in the Oval Office....despite what some feel about me ideology does not drive every thought.

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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 12:03:58 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Oh, yeah, its a sloppy slope fer shure.

One president incarcerates and entire state legislature, after starting a war with americans.
Another president lend-leases his way into a world war in defiance of congress.
Another president drops an atomic bomb.
Another president trades arms for hostages, something that would be considered treason if performed by an american serviceman of lesser rank, but not the commander in chief.
Another president invades a soveriegn country under false pretenses, and then prosecutes a formal policy of torture.
Another president says if you want to get killed according to the Constitution turn yourself in otherwise there is no trial, either way you are dead.


It is like Marilyn Chambers said when she swallowed Johnny 'the Wad' Holmes.

"Meh, it's just another act."

And I am sure there is more to come.

Ron,

Even assuming your interpretation of all of the events above are accurate (and that is not something I'm willing to do) and violate American law or moral principles, they do not violate a basic American legal principle that is of such importance that it is directly enshrined into our Constitution.

That is the bring line that I am talking about.

Firm


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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 12:15:31 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		This took a lot more political courage than bin Laden. WTG President Obama.

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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 12:20:12 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Not so sure about that willbeur,an armed incursion of a sovereign ,nominal allied,nation carried political courage.....whether or not you wish to acknowledge that.

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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 12:29:11 PM   
FirmhandKY


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Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

This took a lot more political courage than bin Laden. WTG President Obama.

It took either a willful disregard or ignorance of the Constitution.

Political arrogance, perhaps, but certainly nothing I'd describe as "courage".

Firm

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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 12:33:59 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I am unwilling to buy your interpretation as well. Now, exactly where is that enshrined?

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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 12:34:21 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		Ron

This has been discussed before, in the theoretical:

Obama authorizes killing of US citizen  (4/8/2010)

My comments (and discussion with you) start on page 4, post 71.

Firm

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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 12:35:05 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
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Status: offline 		Where were you guys when Nixon was killing rock stars?

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 12:36:04 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I am unwilling to buy your interpretation as well. Now, exactly where is that enshrined?

Shit, Ron, that gives me an opening a mile wide ... but I'm trying to take the high road here.  Help me out, man! 

Firm


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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 12:38:36 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

This took a lot more political courage than bin Laden. WTG President Obama.

It took either a willful disregard or ignorance of the Constitution.

Political arrogance, perhaps, but certainly nothing I'd describe as "courage".

Firm


This puts him in a shaky position with the far left and with the Constitutionalists. I am not as sure as you that it disregards the Constitution. They were traitors, and would expect that the POTUS has wide latitude in suspending due process for traitors. He didnt have the US cititzen issue with bin Laden, and he knew that the fallout from NOT "pulling the trigger" on bin Laden if it leaked out would be a political disaster. He didnt have that kind of pressure to act on al-Alwaki.

I hope whoever took him out had a beer after. He could make a fortune in advertising "the beer Alwaki made famous".

<groannnnnnn> (from those old enough to know the reference!)

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 9/30/2011 12:39:41 PM >

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RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA... - 9/30/2011 12:41:15 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I am unwilling to buy your interpretation as well. Now, exactly where is that enshrined?

Shit, Ron, that gives me an opening a mile wide ... but I'm trying to take the high road here.  Help me out, man! 

Firm


You may have it, where in the US Constitution is that enshrined?

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