RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/6/2011 12:20:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Completly and totally 'WRONG" there are laws that specifically state a person must charged and tried in a court of Law. Also there is no law that states the out right killing or anyone terrorist or not is legal.

There are laws that say that people under the jurisdiction of the US, i.e. inside its territory or under its control, be charged and tried in courts. We do not extend that privilege to others or we could not use force in combat at all.

There are many laws that state that killing people under certain circumstances is lawful. One of those does make killing terrorists who pose a clear and present danger lawful. Again if this were not true soldiers performing their duty in time of war could be charged with murder.



mnottertail -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/6/2011 12:24:43 PM)

It is treasonous what you have done with Mr. Schmeling's name however, his mother would declare war on you for that.

Mr. Schmeling was a kraut from the word go. His wife became an american citizen in the late 1930's.

He never was an american citizen and is buried in Germany, his lifelong, and permanent residence.

His grave is in Niedersachsen, I've seen it.

Auf Wiederhören




DomKen -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/6/2011 12:24:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

This group has been debeting about the government and the killing of people not tried by in a court of law. There are those who seem to justifiy this because those killed are "terrorists". I am would like to remind everyone of the Heavy Weight Boxer Max Schmeliner. A US Citizen who left the US and went to Germany in support of the Nazis. He joined the paratroopers and fought in several battles against US soldiers. After the war he returned to the US and died on Feburay 2, 2005. He was never arrested or accused of treason.

Schmeling, correct spelling, was never a US citizen and did not move to the US after WWII. He lived in Germany until his death.



Nosathro -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/6/2011 1:03:17 PM)

Wrong...both are US Citizens they are entitled to the protection of the Constitution and law regardless of where in world they are. The White House has refused to show any evidence that they were activly envolved in terrorist acts. One actually attended events at the Pentagon. What were they, one was the editor of a newspaper the other made speeches, very dangerous people. It is reported that bin Laden was unarmed and begged for mercy as some 20 SEAL shot him dead. Also killed was bin Laden Brother, who was not wanted by the US and two servents, only on AK 47 was found, and bin Laden servent were also killed. Two wivies of bin Laden were also wounded. Am I to understand that some 100 trained SEALS have to resort to killing two unarmed women, not to mention 4 unarmed men, all begging for mercy. I wonder after that who would be nexted, saddly I have my answer.



mnottertail -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/6/2011 1:16:30 PM)

Your performance to date has shown you to be more than loose with events.

I do not think you are tightening anything up in this post.



Owner59 -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/6/2011 2:34:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Wrong...both are US Citizens they are entitled to the protection of the Constitution and law regardless of where in world they are. The White House has refused to show any evidence that they were activly envolved in terrorist acts. One actually attended events at the Pentagon. What were they, one was the editor of a newspaper the other made speeches, very dangerous people. It is reported that bin Laden was unarmed and begged for mercy as some 20 SEAL shot him dead. Also killed was bin Laden Brother, who was not wanted by the US and two servents, only on AK 47 was found, and bin Laden servent were also killed. Two wivies of bin Laden were also wounded. Am I to understand that some 100 trained SEALS have to resort to killing two unarmed women, not to mention 4 unarmed men, all begging for mercy. I wonder after that who would be nexted, saddly I have my answer.

This guy was making recrutement vids for al-queda, in english and Arabic.

This makes him a soldier on the battle field and a legal target.

Next!



DomKen -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/6/2011 2:44:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Wrong...both are US Citizens they are entitled to the protection of the Constitution and law regardless of where in world they are. The White House has refused to show any evidence that they were activly envolved in terrorist acts. One actually attended events at the Pentagon. What were they, one was the editor of a newspaper the other made speeches, very dangerous people. It is reported that bin Laden was unarmed and begged for mercy as some 20 SEAL shot him dead. Also killed was bin Laden Brother, who was not wanted by the US and two servents, only on AK 47 was found, and bin Laden servent were also killed. Two wivies of bin Laden were also wounded. Am I to understand that some 100 trained SEALS have to resort to killing two unarmed women, not to mention 4 unarmed men, all begging for mercy. I wonder after that who would be nexted, saddly I have my answer.

You're simply reporting wild made up bullshit. The only people who knew how the bin Laden's behaved are members of Seal Team 6 and the admiistration officials who monitored the operation. All those people are covered by the National Security Act and cannot talk about it.

US citizens do not have the protection of the US Constitution if not inside the US or under US government control. That's how you can wind up rotting forever in a Turkish prison if caught with hashish in Turkey even if you're a US citizen or how a dimwitted college girl can wind up in prison in Italy after having an orgy with a girl who had the bad luck of getting murdered.



hot4bondage -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/7/2011 6:42:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

US citizens do not have the protection of the US Constitution if not inside the US or under US government control. That's how you can wind up rotting forever in a Turkish prison if caught with hashish in Turkey even if you're a US citizen or how a dimwitted college girl can wind up in prison in Italy after having an orgy with a girl who had the bad luck of getting murdered.


Those are two different issues, DomKen. You're confusing other countries' sovereignty with our rights as US citizens. One has to respect the laws of the country they're in, but the US Constitution protects the rights of US citizens from the US government, even if they are out of country. Or, at least it used to.



mnottertail -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/7/2011 6:48:14 AM)

My understanding is that these two guys had the full force and might and all the protections of the US Government and the US Constitution right up till the moment of their deaths.



Nosathro -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/7/2011 7:10:32 AM)

It is true that actual accounts of what happen to bin Laden are not public, there is a lawsuit under the Freedom of Information Act that is trying to get the White House to release that information. However, it has been confirmed by the White House, that along with bin Laden, his brother, and two male servants were killed and two of bin Laden wivies were wounded. And that the SEALs were met with little restiance, only one AK 47 rifle. Further the White does report bin Laden was unarmed. Again I ask the question if unarmed why did the SEAL simple capture him rather then kill him and why were 3 men not wanted by the US killed and two women not armed and not wanted wounded.

I will say that the Country of Yemen has not been cooperative in matters of extradition, they have refused US request in the past. Howerve, does that justify the excutions?



mnottertail -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/7/2011 7:20:16 AM)

Simply put, when you are number perhaps a dozen, and are surrounded by millions of enemies, you sorta don't want to be hauling around a kicking, screaming, crying pussy to get to the exit point very much, it ain't your first second or third choice. Frankly, it ain't even on the options list.

Glad you asked.





DomKen -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/7/2011 9:13:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

It is true that actual accounts of what happen to bin Laden are not public, there is a lawsuit under the Freedom of Information Act that is trying to get the White House to release that information. However, it has been confirmed by the White House, that along with bin Laden, his brother, and two male servants were killed and two of bin Laden wivies were wounded. And that the SEALs were met with little restiance, only one AK 47 rifle. Further the White does report bin Laden was unarmed. Again I ask the question if unarmed why did the SEAL simple capture him rather then kill him and why were 3 men not wanted by the US killed and two women not armed and not wanted wounded.

I will say that the Country of Yemen has not been cooperative in matters of extradition, they have refused US request in the past. Howerve, does that justify the excutions?

So you've now tried to walk back the whole begging for his life nonsense.

BTW in a dark room how do you determine that OBL is not armed or has a grenade under his armpit safely?




DomKen -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/7/2011 9:16:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

US citizens do not have the protection of the US Constitution if not inside the US or under US government control. That's how you can wind up rotting forever in a Turkish prison if caught with hashish in Turkey even if you're a US citizen or how a dimwitted college girl can wind up in prison in Italy after having an orgy with a girl who had the bad luck of getting murdered.


Those are two different issues, DomKen. You're confusing other countries' sovereignty with our rights as US citizens. One has to respect the laws of the country they're in, but the US Constitution protects the rights of US citizens from the US government, even if they are out of country. Or, at least it used to.

No, I'm not. The US constitution restrains the actions of the US government with regards to people it has control of either physically or by being inside our territory. It does not apply and never has applied in any other situation.



Nosathro -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/7/2011 10:34:50 AM)

Accrding to the White House, about 20 SEALs and a dog and trainer were in the house, only 6 residents were in the house, including bin Landen. They SEALs were there for about 45 minutes they spent most of the time collecting documents, all the shotting lasted about the first 10 minutes. It was about an hour after the SEALs left did any Pakistan police show up. The last time I check Pakistan is an allie of the US.



Nosathro -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/7/2011 10:36:48 AM)

The raid was conducted in day light the house was well lighted. I would think that the SEALs would also have nightvision equipment with them if there was any chance of darkness.



mnottertail -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/7/2011 10:37:46 AM)

Yeah. Naivete is not politik. Uh, I would be very surprised to find out that the shooting was the last 10 minutes. So, thanks for that heads up.




DomKen -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/7/2011 12:43:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

The raid was conducted in day light the house was well lighted. I would think that the SEALs would also have nightvision equipment with them if there was any chance of darkness.

You're full of shit. The raid landed at about 1AM local time. SEALS do not operate in daylight if at all possible. Nightvision goggles are useless inside buildings. For inside work you're talking about IR vision systems. Although neither light amplification nor IR will let you see a weapon concealed behind the body or a grenade under the arm or in the groin. Even in ideal lighting conditions if someone doesn't surrender and obey orders instantly it is impossible to be sure of the safety of taking the person alive.

You're basically demanding that the SEALS should have put their lives at considerable risk because you're squeamish.



FirstQuaker -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/8/2011 8:27:18 AM)

I don't like any government thinking it can go about assassinating those people it doesn't like.

That said, about every government on the planet (Canada not yet, to my knowledge, but Canada has only been a around in its current form  for about 30 years) is proven to have assassinated people, normally secretly, though the perpetrators usually become known with the passage of time.  The British, the French, Israel,  and the US have definitely got blood all over their hands, and niether the Chinesen or the Russians have a thing to say either. Wer can work our way down thorough the lessor players if you want.

Perhaps the ancient concept of an outlaw might be brought back, and at least the recipients of the honor might be publicly notified (if they even care)  that they were wanted "dead or alive."

However in this case I note most every nation has a crime called treason or something similar in nature regarding those of its citizens/subjects who take up arms and make war against their own land, and traitors genereally get the working end of whatever weapons their countrymen and women possess used on them. In this case, I doubt the fools would survive a US treason trial intact, assuming they were caught and brounght to justice.

I think the US should make the list public, if for no other reason then to notify (and terrorize) those on it. (Turn yourself in or die, and we don't really care which, save to note a rocket or a buillet is a lot cheaper then a trial.)



Nosathro -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/8/2011 8:35:46 AM)

I agree. CIA is by law forbiden to kill anyone, the National Intelligence Agency is suppose to be only adivsory. Yet we see these agency coninuly violating out laws. Our government state we are a nation of laws yet the same government violates these laws for their own purpose, making us hipocrates at least.



Nosathro -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/8/2011 8:40:47 AM)

Oh and something interesting these Drone are infected by a computer virus, but they are using them anyway.

http://news.yahoo.com/war-drones-keep-flying-despite-computer-virus-025534646.html



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