RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike

RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (Full Version)

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FatDomDaddy -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (9/30/2011 10:22:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub If I were president….I would say to the CIA….” Make an attempt to apprehend him but be sure if this is not possible then kill him. That way we could say he was killed in a firefight while we were attempting to apprehend him“. Why does Obama not have sense enough for a simple solution. Butch Well... except... one can hardly be apprehended by a drone and it's senseless to waste the cream of American troops on a faux firefight, Nope... We can kill enemy leaders and their lieutenants by drones and we have President Obama to thank for it! The support of liberal American Democrats of this type of action and there cheering acceptance of the precedent... what did Heretic use earlier.... ah yes.... Gravy.

subrob1967 -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (9/30/2011 10:49:32 PM)
Well done Mr Panetta, kudos to this administration.

Politesub53 -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 3:38:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Listening to a Brit analyst on NPR today,he said there was no doubt he was held in their prison.How one can know for sure that he was or wasn`t tortured,I can`t say. But something happened. He claimed that he was tortured.And at the time,Yemen was one of the torture out-source countries we were(bush was) using. So if true,this would point to torture actually causing terrorism,not preventing it. In 2002 he was active in the UK recruiting young men and telling them of the rewards waiting in heaven. This was some four yeats before his spell in prison, originally for a kidnapping in Yemen. You are right, we cant know for sure that he was or wasnt tortured, but we can know for sure he was preaching about martyrdom.

Politesub53 -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 3:43:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Does torture cause terrorism? No. And I don't mind hearing stories. Even if not true, they have a utility at times. But basing policy decisions on false beliefs and "facts" can be dangerous. Firm Shakes head..... If you think youths reading about the torture of Muslims are not driven to sign up, then you are sadly mistaken.

Politesub53 -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 3:50:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow I feel sorry for people who have not understood the fight against terrorism is a scam. You dont think this would have been out in the mainstream press then ? After all, Watergate, Irangate, Abu Ghraib (sp) and a myriad of other incidents made the news, despite the best efforts to silence them. Instead of feeling sorry for those of us able to read a newspaper, your time would be best served not reading Alex and co. No doubt political captal can be made by both sides due to terrorist incidents, but the poor victims of terror attacks can hardly be called a scam.

mnottertail -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 4:38:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail ..............except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger............... Yeah the truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth....So help me, Allah!!!! I think you need to dig a little deeper. You are basically taking the position that if the President orders a US military force to assassinate an American citizen, that is legal. I am taking the presidents postion, he was not targeted, he was a casualty of war. The entire world is a battlefield, then? Firm Has it never been so, or always been so? I think the latter. Krieg ist!!!!

StrangerThan -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 4:47:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic was waiting for the false flagists to come out Wait long enough and a Republican will be president and you can watch the people now defending the right to kill American citizens without due process, flip over and vehemently denounce it.

mnottertail -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 4:48:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 ~FR~ As Alwaki had renounced his US citizenship, how does he stand legally ? IE, is he no longer American ? Generally speaking, it is considered rather unamerican by our patriots to consider yourself unamerican. Now had this fuckstick been a cabbage chopper in Watsonville California, born on american soil of two yemeni nationals the patroitic right would have wanted him declared an illegal instead of the adulation they are showering on him at this time, it is convienient to their ideology to throw their lot in with traitors and terrorists. But look, again, he wasn't targeted specifically, he was a casualty of the fog of war. Wrong place, wrong time, shit happens.

mnottertail -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 4:56:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Oh no.....we don`t want to know if it`s true or not...... Such a brave man.......[8\|] Let`s just say it is true,would you agree that torture causes terrorism? Or is that to difficult a question for you to ponder? quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Does torture cause terrorism? No. What does torture cause? quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY And I don't mind hearing stories. Even if not true, they have a utility at times. But basing policy decisions on false beliefs and "facts" can be dangerous. Firm Now this little ditty here you might want to take back to the nest and share with the teabaggers and the joetheplumber and the rest of the anecdotal evidence crowd, it seems to be how we got here deep in the shit in many areas of our lives in the first place.

mnottertail -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 5:03:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic was waiting for the false flagists to come out Wait long enough and a Republican will be president and you can watch the people now defending the right to kill American citizens without due process, flip over and vehemently denounce it. Nope, this is the very bent up thinking that gets 'conservatives' in trouble all the time. Nobody is defending a right to kill an america citizen without due process, as has been repeatedly pointed out, he is a casualty of war, now; If you will as a group back a plan to bring W to trial for invasion of Iraq under false pretenses, or at least taking him down for acts of friendly fire since to you these fog of war acts are reprehensible and unconstitutional, then we will all change our tune as well. These are unintended consequences of your positions on the very same issues (or so very nearly like as to be indistinguisable), which you claimed to be legal and patrioticaly american in recent history.

StrangerThan -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 5:10:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic was waiting for the false flagists to come out Wait long enough and a Republican will be president and you can watch the people now defending the right to kill American citizens without due process, flip over and vehemently denounce it. Nope, this is the very bent up thinking that gets 'conservatives' in trouble all the time. Nobody is defending a right to kill an america citizen without due process, as has been repeatedly pointed out, he is a casualty of war, now; If you will as a group back a plan to bring W to trial for invasion of Iraq under false pretenses, or at least taking him down for acts of friendly fire since to you these fog of war acts are reprehensible and unconstitutional, then we will all change our tune as well. These are unintended consequences of your positions on the very same issues (or so very nearly like as to be indistinguisable), which you claimed to be legal and patrioticaly american in recent history. What's this "you" crap? You aren't talking to a Republican, but rather an ex-democrat. If one group in America disappointed me, it was democrats. Cause I was right there on the front lines with you, raising hell about all the shit that went down, and pretty much, ya'll disappeared the instant a dem became president. A good bit of the stuff that existed then, exists now, along with the new prez doing his bit to grab more control for the executive branch. The only difference is one group has shifted into attack mode, while the other into defense mode.

mnottertail -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 5:15:51 AM)
Cute. But I am not a democrat. So when you were out on the front lines, you may have been the enemy, depends what you were on the front lines about.

ThatDaveGuy69 -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 5:24:33 AM)
Article 3, Section 3 of the US Constitution: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

StrangerThan -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 5:25:05 AM)
Those lines up there you were talking about, namely the invasion of Iraq - not so much for the invasion itself, but manufacturing the reasons. Other lines were finding someone that understood the Patriot Act wasn't a slippery slope you could avoid by not committing a crime, but more so, a platform for administrations thereafter to seize more power, more control, and adopt more reasons to violate the constitution. Someone who understood that indefinite detention without due process was neither good nor validated by two planes flying into the trade centers, who understood that warrantless wiretaps was fucked up, who.. Well shit, I can go on but you get the picture.

TheHeretic -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 6:06:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 We specifically DID NOT go after gaddafi personally Right. Sure thing. We just defined a "command and control center" as anyplace we thought Kuhdaffy might be at any given time. To be accurate though, it should be "he" defined, because the actions in Libya were taken strictly on Presidential say-so. Thank God we missed, but the remote control exclusion in the War Powers Act is more likely to be the precedent that sends the Dems/libs into a complete tizzy, somewhere down the road.

FirmhandKY -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 6:12:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY The entire world is a battlefield, then? Has it never been so, or always been so? I think the latter. Krieg ist!!!! True, from a philosophical point of view, I agree. Firm

FirmhandKY -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 6:14:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69 Article 3, Section 3 of the US Constitution: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court." And, if they had tried him in absentia, and convicted him, this entire question would be gone. Firm

FirmhandKY -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 6:16:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Does torture cause terrorism? No. And I don't mind hearing stories. Even if not true, they have a utility at times. But basing policy decisions on false beliefs and "facts" can be dangerous. Shakes head..... If you think youths reading about the torture of Muslims are not driven to sign up, then you are sadly mistaken. I did not say that it might not encourage it. It's just not the penultimate cause of it. Firm

mnottertail -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 7:03:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69 Article 3, Section 3 of the US Constitution: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court." And, if they had tried him in absentia, and convicted him, this entire question would be gone. Firm And if there was proof of targeting, a trial and conviction of the president, there would be a question. As it is, this is only untoutored fanciful hypotheticals, right? Yanno, like the WMD thing.

DomKen -> RE: TERROR - US Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike (10/1/2011 7:15:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen If that person is a self admitted traitor, as both these were, and beyond the reach of our laws, residing in a foreign nation that does not extradite to the US, then I'm hard pressed to see how they could be afforded the protections of our laws. So, according to this logic, as long as a US citizen is outside our borders, it's ok to have them assassinated? Is that what I wrote? No. Then that isn't what I meant. quote: quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen BTW where was your concern when Padilla was being held in direct violation of this same amednment? Was that the shoe bomber? I wasn't aware that he was assassinated. Firm He was held by the US government in direct violation of the 5th amendment for several years. You never complained about that.

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