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Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 9/30/2011 12:18:58 PM   
Daggerandpez


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I am not really sure what we call this world we inhabit--kinky, lifestyle, SM, BDSM--take your pick. But one thing to me has been clear. Most movements that have been about sexual freedom in the past have grown out of some feeling of oppression. It makes sense then that when we start discussing MDHL-fs (Male Dominant Het Leather-female submissive) that people jump to the conclusion that we are feeling some form of oppression and some need to defend ourselves. They assume we are feeling "beleaguered" and "oppressed." I understand the impulse to think that way. And on first glance, I would probably think the same thing.

In response to that impulse, I want to say a few things.

First and foremost, MDHL is not, in any way shape or form, about Male Doms (or female submissives) being oppressed. It just isn't. I mean, sure we feel oppressed the same way anyone who is kinky, different, or outside the mainstream feels oppressed. But we realize quite clearly that nothing about the discrimination we feel for our relationship dynamic compares even remotely to the experiences of our gay and trans brothers and sisters. To make that comparison would be silly. And, to be very frank, we are not the ones making it.

And while I have personally been surprised by both the anger and serious mischaracterizations that have occurred, I don't feel like there has been any "reverse discrimination" either (a term which, by the way, makes no sense because discrimination is not a directional term. Reverse discrimination is actually blind acceptance). I think there has been some misunderstanding, hence, this post.

Second, we all believe very strongly that MDHL and society in general owes a huge debt to the men and women who fought for sexual freedom in the past several decades and we recognize that gay leathermen were at the forefront of that. We have no desire or need to diminish either their accomplishments or their sacrifices.

Third, many of the things that these communities have done to come together have worked. They have also worked in countless other contexts. And if they fit what we are trying to do we have every intention of using them. Call it "appropriation" or call it "stealing," it doesn't matter to us. We'd much prefer it be seen as being smart enough to recognize a good idea and adopt it to our own purposes, but six of one, half a dozen of the other....

So if it isn't about oppression and it is not at odds with any other leather movement or group, why are you doing it?

The answer is simple. Within the BDSM community we have had it too easy. We've not faced the struggles that many other groups have. We've been able to be allies in some struggles, but we have never had a core reason to come together and really do the work of figuring out who we are and what we stand for.

And without that, we have nothing.

In many people's eyes, Het Male Dom has become synonymous with the stereotype of the lazy guy who wants an easy fuck, who doesn't take the time to reflect, better himself, or see BDSM as a path for self-reflection and growth. We have the reputation as people who seek only immediate gratification and who don't do the work or put the time in to truly learn a craft, a philosophy, or a way of being in the world.

Every negative response to MDHL that I have read has relied on precisely those stereotypes to make its case.

And those stereotypes are, in many cases, accurate.

But not for all of us.

Those of us who ascribe to MDHL are doing so to distance ourselves from those behaviors, philosophies, and attitudes. Those who fit that stereotype won't like and will have little use for what we offer.

There are some of us who have taken a journey of self-discovery and reflection and have found that we need to turn to others who come from a different world, a different set of struggles and a different path if we are to find fellow travelers. But as those people are quick to point out, we don't share a similar history or set of experiences. Gay leather, for example, is gay leather. While there is much to learn for all of us, there are limitations, often severe ones, that prevent us for truly engaging in that world.

So it is with a profound sense of humility that we set out with MDHL to do the hard work of defining who we are and what we believe in. Until we do, our community will suffer from the thing that it has always suffered from: a lack of accountability. When we have no principles to adhere to and no community to be responsible toward, we have no means and no reason to be accountable to anyone but ourselves.

MDHL is an effort to create that community and promote those principles.

We care about ethics, transparency in our relationships, empowerment, integrity, honor, tradition, and accountability. But we are just now starting to ask the question: How do we create a community around those principles? What are the unique obstacles we face?

This is not a movement of pride as a response to oppression. This is a movement of humility, in recognition of the fact that we have had it far too easy for far too long. If we are going to be serious members of any community, we need to get our house in order.

We believe the principles of leather, as we define it, adopt it, and make it our own (just as countless groups have done before us) can provide a grounding to make that happen.

We recognize that those who are not part of our relationship dynamic can't do much to help us (just as we can't share in their experiences) and that we will frequently stumble and fall. So we move forward with a profound sense of humility in knowing that the journey we are undertaking is not an easy one and that we will struggle many times on the way. And as we do, it is our sincere hope that those who have done the same kind of work for themselves and their community will look with empathy and while knowing they can't do the work for us, perhaps they can occasionally lend a hand, give a word of advice, or cheer us on.

As we grow and embrace who we are, it is our sincere hope that you will look and understand that while we may not always be right and we may not always be graceful, that we are doing the work. And if we cannot always gain your agreement, we hope we are deserving of your respect.

-zetus
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RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 9/30/2011 12:44:53 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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this would probably be better suited as a journal post. there's not much inviting discussion here, just a blanket statement of your own opinion.

but since i'm a postaholic, i can relate to this. my Top friend and i ran into a couple of people who, while being experienced with BDSM, couldn't "tolerate" the idea of a guy with a femsub following him around. it was bananas. comments like "what you need to do is give him a taste of his own medicine" and crap like that -- it's ANNOYING.
these people assume that somehow the female partner is unwilling, or unable to make a good decision -- how patronising is that?
they don't know enough about me to know that there's no way i'm going to try turning the tables on a Dom, unless he ordered me to, and then i'd still probably be freaked out. =p and they don't seem to understand that a female can exercise her power to choose and choose a relationship built on imbalance.

so yeah... i can relate to that.

i also read somewhere that there's a club in CA (i think?) that's banned expressions of MDom/fsub relationships. i just think that's bananas........... it's patronising, dehumanising, and disrespectful. and hilariously enough, people like this think they're standing up for us poor, oppressed female submissives. =p pfft.


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RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 9/30/2011 1:01:12 PM   
Daggerandpez


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@lillybopeep...it started as a blog on another site and the convo ended up being amazing! so i wanted to share with the CM people what is going on...

a while ago it was announced that an internations confrince called BOLD would be taking place next yet...it is gear towards MDHL folk...the out pour of emotions for all sides have been overwhelming....since then...MDHL has been a hot topic...

i figured the best way to start a dialog would be to first take out the fears...


as fo the comment about a club excluding MDHL/fs play was CWS...and it is a vanilla GLTB group...so its OK that they did that haha

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RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 9/30/2011 1:41:59 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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Thanks for sharing... are we done now?



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RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 9/30/2011 1:55:47 PM   
MasterofRopes66


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Very interesting and my first time hearing about this kind of community!(Been in BDSM for 14 years!)
I acknowledge myself to own those defining criterias being promoted through this "new" community, as a male hetero dominant myself.

I googled MDHL and found something about "BOLD 2012" and read some more about it.
I can relate to the thoughts and beliefs promoted by MDHL, but I wonder if a special community is needed for those who acknowledge owning those "criteras".

I personally don´t need a group or community for personal growth or to be able to fully embrace who I am or validating myself as a person, or as a male dominant in BDSM-relationship, no sense of need to round up my "brothers and sisters" in battle against the outside world, since I don´t feel attacked or opressed by the outside world at all, just as OP stated for himself.
I can still see others having that special need of a group ndefining them fully and that´s all OK and they have my outmost respect!!
But starting a community as MDHL "because work has to be done" COULD signal a feeling of opression/attack from outside world, forcing a special community to be formed to battle those "attacks"...and the unwanted phenomenon could start anyway.
WHAT "work is needed to be done"(requiring a group) and WHY?

Still I can recognize the true ambition as just forming a "place" for criteriaowners to gather and exchange experiences, lessons learned etc in living BDSM-relationship in MDHL-spirit, just as the members of the local gocart-club has weekend gatherings, races, barbeqeues and socializing, seeking a sense of community as gocart-fans.

My own personal thought NOT to embrace the MDHL for myself is only the "Leather" part and without that "L" I would sincerely embrace(MDHL as MDH) for myself completely.

Still a nice initiative!!

MP.

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RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 9/30/2011 4:36:39 PM   
DesFIP


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We are monogamous, heterosexual, male dom and fem sub. I have never felt oppressed nor have I had anyone tell me I am. I feel no loss from this.

I'm familiar with being attacked, as any Jew of my age would be. I don't feel a loss of trueness from not being attacked because of my relationship.

I have to say, if your family and friends see you being mistreated, that says that you folks are doing something that causes that reaction. In all these years no one has ever said he treats me with disrespect. No one's ever looked askance when he asks me to get him a refill.

I knew the gay leathermen, but I've never sought to emulate them. Probably because monogamy was not something any of them did prior to AIDS. Some of them were very nice people and some were idiots, like any other group I've known.


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RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 9/30/2011 5:36:47 PM   
LadyPact


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I should probably be using My better judgement here and skip making this reply.  Oh well.  Not all decisions are good ones. 

OP, it's not that I think you have poor intentions.  I've read what you have to say about the way that you see it and I think there are some points where we disagree.

On the old leather clubs that started as gay leather, and some of them wanting to remain gay leather, I can kind of get that.  (A vanilla gay club doesn't even come into this for Me.)  Leather to them was something different as opposed to when you and I came along.  I know there is some division in the gay leather community about how we straight folks have messed things up.  Some of those folks do want to go back to the way things were because it is what they knew.  They actually had a basis in protocol for that at one time.  You and I being straight didn't always have a welcome in those days.

With this in mind, I see what you are doing here as different.  Not unless you're going to try to tell Me that the leather that you came up with says that you can choose to ignore protocols that say leather people should be seen the same regardless of their sexual orientation or their gender.  Do you know the path that this leads us?  All we do is reaffirm that we should have gay leather and straight leather.  Male led leather and female led leather.  We'll have all kinds of *specialized* leather instead of a leather community.  Might as well start calling it "alphabet soup" leather because soon we'll have stuff like FLHLTNGORWDSF because somebody out there will say we need Female Led Het Leather The Next Generation Of Redheads Who Didn't Sub First.

I'm still going to sit here and wish you success with your event.  I hope you at least get enough folks in attendance to where it isn't a financial loss for those who are putting it together.  From your angle, I understand that the focus of this is to be education and as a leather person I can not say that I don't support at least that premise.  At the same time, when you look around those rooms and see the past missing that you may have forgotten and those figures that probably should be sitting in those rooms with you, I hope part of My message here today will be heard in your ears.


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RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 9/30/2011 5:45:46 PM   
ProlificNeeds


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In a way I like being a 'younger' generation of kink, because I'm part of that whole movement of "I don't give a fuck what titles you put to yourself or your partner."

I do appreciate some groups have a 'culture' or what-not, I don't really get the whole Leather movement, it's never been introduced to me, but I'd assume it's like any other kinky life style.. each makes of it what they will, or what they won't. Until the day some particular group turns into a cult that bombs their 'oppressors' I don't really care, I can't be bothered to.

--------

Also LP... I'd totally join a group called alphabet-soup.

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RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 9/30/2011 8:01:52 PM   
AcademyForSlaves


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Hello,

All persons have a right to their own opinion and expression. Unless you are doing something to a person against their own will and choice, especially if it harms the person, then no one has a right to intervene. There may of course be some exceptions, but generally it comes down to the rule of "safe, sane, and consential".

Hope this helps.

< Message edited by AcademyForSlaves -- 9/30/2011 8:02:44 PM >


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RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 9/30/2011 8:07:21 PM   
Awareness


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  TL;DR;DRGF

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RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 9/30/2011 8:27:29 PM   
LanceHughes


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:::SIGH:::

Sorry, I couldn't get through all the dense language and there seems to be a lot of repeatition.  However, when I came across this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daggerandpez
<snipped>
We care about ethics, transparency in our relationships, empowerment, integrity, honor, tradition, and accountability. But we are just now starting to ask the question: How do we create a community around those principles? What are the unique obstacles we face?
<snipped>
-zetus

I flashed on an easy answer for you.  It's gonna sound snarky, but those "obstacles [you] face" are NOT unique! The principles you list are IT! (You left off "trust," BTW.)  I see your search for uniqueness as devisive and elitist and exclusive.

Margaret Mead said it best when she said, "Of course you are unique.  Just as every person in the world is unique."

You give LeatherMen the due they deserve for creating the foundation of WIITWD.  Then, instead of continuing to build on that foundation, you seem to claim that since you're different you want to start with a different foundation.  HUH?  I don't get it.

I tried to extend the "foundation / build" analogy to grasp what you are trying to do in terms of the edifice called WIITWD and simply could NOT make it "work."

Best I could come up with was: We het male Doms who KNOW what we're doing are tired of living in the same house as them thar crackers.  Matter of fact, lottsa people tar us with the same brush as dem.  So,we're building a new house and only "twue Doms" are allowed to live in the new place.  We've decided on the address - it's MDHL.  Now all we have to do is figure out how to make it look REAL different so that nobody can claim to live here that we don't wanna have in our 'sclusive boys club.

You can be as "Humble as pie," but when it comes down to it, all I see is a new way to say "I'm a 'twue' Dom."
-------------
There's another problem:  IF (and it's a big "if") you ever get this MDHL concept off the ground, what's to prevent any "guy that calls himself a Dom so that he can get sex" (that's a GTCHADSTHCGS) from reassuring the subs he approaches that he is MDHL and lives by their principles?
-------------
As to the question of:
How do we create a community around those principles?

HAHAHAHA! Hahahaha....... for all your high-flautin' words, have you EVER thought this through?  A community has already formed around THOSE principles.  Nobody "creates" a community..... especially when you left out the NUMBER ONE principle driving your hopes.... That principle is: Oh, and by the way, you can only be in our 'club' if you're MDHL, otherwise go away.

How childish, how very, very childish........
---------------
ETA: Never heard of MDHL until LadyPact sent me a heads-up on this thread.  IF you choose to continue this ideal, the term "MDHL" might take, oh, 20-25 years to gain currency..... if you're lucky.

Just for fun, googled MDHL
The #1 site? MICHIGAN DEVELOPMENTAL HOCKEY LEAGUE
A couple hits down, Acronym Finder gives two:
Mad Dogs Hockey League (British Columbia, Canada)
and
Main Deck Hatch Latched

You MDHLers have your work cut out for you. LOL! 











< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 9/30/2011 8:36:18 PM >


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RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 9/30/2011 8:31:48 PM   
Lockit


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Damn Lance... I'm going to lose my domly status here!  You made me giggle! 

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RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 9/30/2011 8:53:17 PM   
LanceHughes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
Damn Lance... I'm going to lose my domly status here!  You made me giggle! 

That's okay.  You aren't a "twue" Domme anyway.

Although you might be if you'd start : FDBnLrbHiCaCasRTTwWCHbHSYYY which stands for:
Female Dominant Bi-sexual not Leather really, but Heavy into Crops and Canes holding to the Principles of Trust, etc., blah, de blah.....

Seriously, when I give my BDSM 101 lecture, I say, "As you can image, there are all definitions and points of view for what BDSM means.  My favorite - short and sweet - is 'serious fun.'  what we do is not necessarily sex, but it sure is fun.  What we do must be serious because some things are pretty dangerous."

I then get into both SSC and - IMHO better - RACK.

ETA: So, in my opinion, you're reaction is perfect.  I'm SERIOUS about every word I wrote, but I tried to have FUN at the same time.  Thanks for giggling.  Thanks for telling me about it.  Sometimes y'wonder if anybody is even reading. LOL! 

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 9/30/2011 8:55:20 PM >


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RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 9/30/2011 9:11:14 PM   
littlewonder


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This just makes me once again, glad I don't belong to any groups of any kind. Seems like a lot of work and concern for nothing. I've never felt discriminated or oppressed in any way because I'm a slave, he is Master and we're monogamous. For us it's just a traditional male led household. But like I said, we don't really belong to groups or see ourselves as some kind of special term that we need to assign to ourselves to make us feel special.



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RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 9/30/2011 9:49:23 PM   
LanceHughes


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Man, oh, man.....

I FORCED myself to read the OP.  WOW!  First off, I'm going to simply acknowledge and then ignore all your references to "we" and "us" and "our" and the like.  Please re-write your OP in first person SINGULAR and see how it reads.

Next, the recognition of what has gone on before is appreciated, but wait!.....There's more!
The parallel between the mainstreaming of BDSM (straight WIITWD) and Leather (gay WIITWD) is MUCH stronger than the parallel between mainstreaming of BDSM and vanilla gays.

Leather IS to this day oppressed by vanilla gays.  Each and every year, the Leather contigent in the Denver Gay Pride is asked to "tone it down," just as the drag queens are.  "We don't want the TV news to have such lasivious images in a news story about us regular, monogamous (dare I add "twue") gays."

Leather Dykes are always having to "explain" to their lip-stick lesbian friends why Lesbian BDSM is NOT abuse and oppression and anti-feminisim.

That all said, what IS the parallel for all those Marches on Washington demanding equal rights for gays.  What is the parallel for gay marriages ?  Why IS there a (vanilla) gay "movement."?  [Every time I hear that, I think "Ex-Lax might help some of those Senators."]

The parallel is the Civil Rights movement of the 50s and 60s.  You BET gays borrowed - in the same way you use the word - effective, proven techniques.  Gay marriage could NOT be any more like the repeal of miscagenation laws.  [Whites and blacks couldn't marry.]  Nowadys, I see plenty of mixed-race couples and I'm sure you do, too.

So, as I see it, the problem with MDHL is that there are NO parallels for you to follow.  In the Leather community, we are generally still circumspect - I've said it over and over - DO NOT "push" your BDSM life-style until DSM-V comes out in May, 2013.  Until then, BDSM is still listed as a paraphilia.  There's a parallel for you that DOES apply - until Homosexuality was removed from the DSM, it was a mental illness.  As soon - I mean minutes later - as soon as DSM-IV was published, suits were filed, people came out of the closet and the REAL "movement" for Gay "liberation" began.

You say you have had it "too easy."  That's like a black school teacher looking to form a union of black school teachers apart from the union she now belongs to because she feels she has had it too easy.  There!  I knew there was an analogy somewhere, just had to go further back in the long history of the battle for Civil Rights.

Relax, enjoy, come march with the Leather contingency in the gay pride parade to acknowledge what we've done - notice I did NOT say "too acknowledge your debt to us."  (Denver Leather is ALWAYS 'good' on this.)  Run a munch that helps improve the skills, craft, techn.... what did you say?  Oh yes.... Run an education class that teaches those "bad boys" that you're speaking about here:

"Het Male Dom" has become synonymous with the stereotype of the lazy guy who wants an easy fuck, who doesn't take the time to reflect, better himself, or see BDSM as a path for self-reflection and growth. We have the reputation as people who seek only immediate gratification and who don't do the work or put the time in to truly learn a craft, a philosophy, or a way of being in the world.

<Bet nobody shows up.. Sorry, but true.>

Here's a successful idea from Denver (wish we could get the moderators back.  Hey! Lance!  How 'bout YOU moderate?  Oh, alright.  I'll look into it.)  We had a D-type only meeting once-a-month.  Just to discuss D-type topics without being embarassed to be forth-coming with things like "I'm having a problem with my sub."  GREAT meetings..... problem is the D-types that truly needed some guidance never showed up.  That's okay, bonds were forged between Leather and BDSM that exist to this day.

Oh, and on the topic of getting stronger Doms in your area.... see www.CouncilOfTribes.comm Love it! A program "by your D-types, for your D-types and....c'mon Lincoln, don't fail me now...."  

Bottom line: Do NOT be devisive - build, build, build on the foundation you enjoy today!  THAT is the greatest, best, most meaningful action that you can perform to honor those that have built that foundation for you to build ON!

Enjoy what 'we' (myself included) have done for you.  Please, enjoy!


< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 9/30/2011 9:55:54 PM >


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RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 9/30/2011 11:41:21 PM   
LanceHughes


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I'm trying, honest, I'm tryin'
-----------------
From the BOLD 2012 website:
Why do Hetrosexuals and especially Dominant men need their own conference?

As widespread as it is, the Heterosexual Dominant Male/female submissive dynamic is rarely the subject of discussion, definition, or exploration.  Most people assume that everything just applies to the MDHL dynamic.  A big part of BOLD is about understanding what exactly MDHL identity is and how we can create communities that foster ethics, accountability, and integrity among Dominant men and their partners.
-----------------
A simple way to understand exactly what the MDHL dynamic is would be to say what it is NOT!  As I said above, I'm trying, really trying to see what that answer might be.

It IS a power exchange, so we know it is not defined as being not a power exchange.

All I'm coming up with is NOT gay, and NOT female-led dynamic.  To be positive about trying to define it, all I'm coming up with is that it IS a sub-set of WIITWD.

Straight, male-led, D/s - can't imagine WHY there's a "complaint" in the answer given above that "Most people assume that everything just applies to the MDHL dynamic."  Guess what, my friend?  "Everything" discussed, taught, presented, you name it.... DOES apply to the MDHL dynamic.  And to paraphrase Miss Mead: "Just like "everything" applies to everyone else in WIITWD.......

Oh, and I see you're a presenter.  No problem with that, but I don't see how your presentation as outlined would differ one iota from the same presentation at say, www.ThunderInTheMountains.com  Ever been?

Also, I noticed a tab of "Monarchs."  Of course, I just had to click on that, especially after reading that you were invited to be a Monarch..... Really, most organizations would call such a piece of the organization the "Steering Committee."  Are there Dukes, and Princes, and such?  Sorry for that snarkiness, but I'm trying so hard, it just slipped out.

Didn't see any explanation as to wether this is first time out - probably.  And NO explanation of whence BOLD derives.  OOPS.  I'm just in a King Arthur mood after seeing that the Monarchs have their own logo. Again, sorry for that snarkiness, but I'm trying so hard, it just slipped out.

Actually, I'm just plain old tired, it being 12:45 Am local.  G'nite

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RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 10/1/2011 2:06:19 AM   
SailingBum


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geeze with all the new acronyms I thought that thread was about some STD I hadnt heard of. But now I know there is a group of morons that sit around and dream up yet another twist on what most ppl call sex. oh wait is that kinky sex of fetish, Evil BDSM dog sex. I for ONE know I had HUGE misconceptions on WHATEVER sex. The OP straighten my ass right out. I mean really it's clear as MUD

Informed BadOne

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(in reply to LanceHughes)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 10/1/2011 6:33:06 AM   
Kana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daggerandpez

I am not really sure what we call this world we inhabit--kinky, lifestyle, SM, BDSM--take your pick. But one thing to me has been clear. Most movements that have been about sexual freedom in the past have grown out of some feeling of oppression. It makes sense then that when we start discussing MDHL-fs (Male Dominant Het Leather-female submissive) that people jump to the conclusion that we are feeling some form of oppression and some need to defend ourselves. They assume we are feeling "beleaguered" and "oppressed." I understand the impulse to think that way. And on first glance, I would probably think the same thing.

In response to that impulse, I want to say a few things.

First and foremost, MDHL is not, in any way shape or form, about Male Doms (or female submissives) being oppressed. It just isn't. I mean, sure we feel oppressed the same way anyone who is kinky, different, or outside the mainstream feels oppressed. But we realize quite clearly that nothing about the discrimination we feel for our relationship dynamic compares even remotely to the experiences of our gay and trans brothers and sisters. To make that comparison would be silly. And, to be very frank, we are not the ones making it.

And while I have personally been surprised by both the anger and serious mischaracterizations that have occurred, I don't feel like there has been any "reverse discrimination" either (a term which, by the way, makes no sense because discrimination is not a directional term. Reverse discrimination is actually blind acceptance). I think there has been some misunderstanding, hence, this post.

Second, we all believe very strongly that MDHL and society in general owes a huge debt to the men and women who fought for sexual freedom in the past several decades and we recognize that gay leathermen were at the forefront of that. We have no desire or need to diminish either their accomplishments or their sacrifices.

Third, many of the things that these communities have done to come together have worked. They have also worked in countless other contexts. And if they fit what we are trying to do we have every intention of using them. Call it "appropriation" or call it "stealing," it doesn't matter to us. We'd much prefer it be seen as being smart enough to recognize a good idea and adopt it to our own purposes, but six of one, half a dozen of the other....

So if it isn't about oppression and it is not at odds with any other leather movement or group, why are you doing it?

The answer is simple. Within the BDSM community we have had it too easy. We've not faced the struggles that many other groups have. We've been able to be allies in some struggles, but we have never had a core reason to come together and really do the work of figuring out who we are and what we stand for.

And without that, we have nothing.

In many people's eyes, Het Male Dom has become synonymous with the stereotype of the lazy guy who wants an easy fuck, who doesn't take the time to reflect, better himself, or see BDSM as a path for self-reflection and growth. We have the reputation as people who seek only immediate gratification and who don't do the work or put the time in to truly learn a craft, a philosophy, or a way of being in the world.

Every negative response to MDHL that I have read has relied on precisely those stereotypes to make its case.

And those stereotypes are, in many cases, accurate.

But not for all of us.

Those of us who ascribe to MDHL are doing so to distance ourselves from those behaviors, philosophies, and attitudes. Those who fit that stereotype won't like and will have little use for what we offer.

There are some of us who have taken a journey of self-discovery and reflection and have found that we need to turn to others who come from a different world, a different set of struggles and a different path if we are to find fellow travelers. But as those people are quick to point out, we don't share a similar history or set of experiences. Gay leather, for example, is gay leather. While there is much to learn for all of us, there are limitations, often severe ones, that prevent us for truly engaging in that world.

So it is with a profound sense of humility that we set out with MDHL to do the hard work of defining who we are and what we believe in. Until we do, our community will suffer from the thing that it has always suffered from: a lack of accountability. When we have no principles to adhere to and no community to be responsible toward, we have no means and no reason to be accountable to anyone but ourselves.

MDHL is an effort to create that community and promote those principles.

We care about ethics, transparency in our relationships, empowerment, integrity, honor, tradition, and accountability. But we are just now starting to ask the question: How do we create a community around those principles? What are the unique obstacles we face?

This is not a movement of pride as a response to oppression. This is a movement of humility, in recognition of the fact that we have had it far too easy for far too long. If we are going to be serious members of any community, we need to get our house in order.

We believe the principles of leather, as we define it, adopt it, and make it our own (just as countless groups have done before us) can provide a grounding to make that happen.

We recognize that those who are not part of our relationship dynamic can't do much to help us (just as we can't share in their experiences) and that we will frequently stumble and fall. So we move forward with a profound sense of humility in knowing that the journey we are undertaking is not an easy one and that we will struggle many times on the way. And as we do, it is our sincere hope that those who have done the same kind of work for themselves and their community will look with empathy and while knowing they can't do the work for us, perhaps they can occasionally lend a hand, give a word of advice, or cheer us on.

As we grow and embrace who we are, it is our sincere hope that you will look and understand that while we may not always be right and we may not always be graceful, that we are doing the work. And if we cannot always gain your agreement, we hope we are deserving of your respect.

-zetus



Glazes over like a Krispy Kreme


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(in reply to Daggerandpez)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 10/1/2011 6:43:58 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
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<considers eating Kana like a crispy Kreme after licking off all the frosting>

Seriously, I'm sure the OP is very interesting but I couldn't make it through the whole thing. In stead of making that whole long post I would have kept it short and just answered questions.

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(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Clearing the Air: Misconceptions about MDHL - 10/1/2011 7:06:51 AM   
peppermint


Posts: 5173
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
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Maybe it's because I just woke up, but I have no idea what your post is all about. Who is supposed to feel oppressed by whom and why? Believe me when I say I am not jumping to conclusions. What advantages are there to joining this MDHL fs group? Why did you feel the need to start some specialized group? What was missing in your life?

(in reply to Daggerandpez)
Profile   Post #: 20
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