RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II

Page: << < prev 9 10 11 12 [13]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/10/2011 9:34:38 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadAxeman

Instead of trying to come up with a concise definition that everyone can agree on (I failed obv) or getting bogged down in legalese, perhaps we could say democracy really occurs when the people can affect the way their country is run. Whether it's for the right or the left, each vote cast helps decide what type of government is elected. Once they're in, it can devolve into tyranny or chaos, but that would be because of the failure or corruption of the elected.
It is not an inherent failure of the system.

Discuss.

yeh definition is one thing that everyone avoids like the plague. not only in the courts but even here.

How can we expect the courts to be any higher statndard than we are?

You realize that when you say lets not get caught up in legalese you are saying in effect lets talk about law without talking about law.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MadAxeman)

Profile

Post #: 241

RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/10/2011 9:56:13 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadAxeman

The very term 'Republic' suggests a level of democracy because the government is elected by those qualified to vote. As long as the common people (rather than an elite) retain the right to vote, you get democracy.

History has shown repeatedly that "pure democracy" equals tyranny.

Which is why our country was founded as a republic.

Firm

What, like the Soviet Republic, or the French Republic ? or the myriad of tyrannical republics history has recorded.

Care to show an example of a true democracy that has been tyrannical ? I dont mean anyone using the title democracy either, just one true example.

Yep, they turn into feudal oligarchies, then they become tyrannical.

I don't think there's ever been an example of a feudal system that wasn't tyrannical, such systems are typically based on patronage rather than merit, including Fascism, and the Soviet (which inherited it's structure and bureaucracy from the Czars, including the Gulags, secret police, etc.).

I hate to tell ya firm, but some people just ain't never gonna be White enough for ya.

They all presume a single sovereign overlord that has power to collect taxes.

in america the states are nothing more than corporations with the power to tax. Ever see whats all on the tax rolls? Drop by the county sometime and see what you are all paying for.

Then trace the money and see where it goes.

How much just pays for the loans? All our money is lent into existance at interest by a closed cabal called the federal reserve bank that we pay interest on, even though we can print our own money.

Its rape!

Cities counties states all "PRIVATE" corporations, treated as "quasi" public.

They administer the trust by grant from the government.

They DEEMED their corporation "Sovereign", and of course that gives them the power of a king.

I do not recall a referendum floating around voting on a the state as "MONARCH".

quote:

1.01 State sovereignty and jurisdiction. The sovereignty and jurisdiction of this state extend to all places within the boundaries declared in article II of the constitution, subject only to such rights of jurisdiction as have been or shall be acquired by the United States over any places therein;

and what are the officials chartered to do for YOU?

and the governor, and all subordinate officers of the state, shall maintain and defend its sovereignty and jurisdiction.

I dont hear people in there anywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The state corporation is chartered to PROTECT ITSELF!!

NOT YOU ME OR ANYONE BUT "ITSELF"!!

The existence of the corporation and gang within it!

NOW what about government?

Moving to 1.09:

quote:

1.09 Seat of government.

Be it enacted by the council and house of representatives of the territory of Wisconsin, that the seat of government of the territory of Wisconsin, be and the same is located and established at the town of Madison, between the 3rd and 4th of the 4 lakes, on the corner of sections 13, 14, 23 and 24 in township 7, north, of range 9, east.

The government is in seated the territory NOT THE STATE! and the state is the corporation overlay.

(taxing district)

Now since when does a corporation have the authority to charge me taxes just because I have land that I used to build a fucking roof over my head eh?

TAXING NECESSITIES OF SURVIVAL?????

Try and file land documents under the territory and see how long it takes to get special delivery from county attorney.

LIke they actually have the bonafide authority to stop anyone from filing ANY type documents that are NOT fraudulent.

Thou shalt not cut the corporation deMOBfuckingcracy from skimming off the top.

there is, in black and white, and there are documents floating around out there from supreme court justices that go over this matter quite succinctly.

Taxation is a sanctioned pyramid scheme, any wonder they have one on the dollar? Laughing in our ignorant faces?

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 10/10/2011 10:05:50 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to xssve)

Profile

Post #: 242

RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/10/2011 10:23:49 PM

SpanishMatMaster

Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Dont forget you dont have to be a republic to have the latter. The UK is a prime example.

I am gone from the discussion because I consider it off-topic. But I would like to help you there - the UK is a republic in the sense people is using this word here, the meaning (2) of the merriam webster, not the (1). This has been used though the whole discussion as far as I can see it.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/republic

(in reply to Politesub53)

Profile

Post #: 243

RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/10/2011 10:46:27 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Lets have it RealOne...your opinion on the difference...For me the two words are interchangeable...A democracy can be direct or indirect representation of the majority where a Republic is indirect representation of the people through elected officials.

Butch

surely

the "substantive" definition is:

in a democracy the authority of its power lies in the whole of the mob. The mob votes and everyone MUST obey those GROUP decisions without recourse, which means you cannot sue their asses if it completely violates your rights.

a republic on the other hand also makes group decisions to form their corporate policy but the rights of a single man and/or woman have higher standing in law. (at least before they were stolen)

neither a democracy nor republic can pass one by-law that does NOT violate my rights. (NO ONE can lawfully decide ANYTHING for ME!)

*Caveat: except if I have been proven to have damaged or caused injury to another* (then it would be decided by a JURY OF MY PEERS) not every race religion and creed on the planet.

and....

Unless I ASSIGN (by contract) power of attorney over to them to make decisions for me.

Which takes us to actual practice.

The courts STOLE your unalienable rights AND your infinite right to contract starting in the baltimore decision and about 10 other cases cited in the spies vs . . . scotus case where the several state courts USURPED and lowered your STATUS, to insure their status was higher than yours with criminal decisions against the people stating that:

you only have rights as subject-citizens UNDER the sovereign state, with total disregard for your "unalienable" rights.

That just burned the declaration of independence.

(right back into feudalism!!!!!!!)

Case in point, property taxation and eminent domain.

The declaration of independence made every man woman and child a Sovereign when the POLITICAL ties to the king were broken! See chisholm et al.

When in reality you should have the same status as a king!

Caveat as stated in the decision "with none to govern but yourself", hence anarchy is impossible in this country.

So in democracy you have no recourse from the decisions of the whole.

In republic you do, you can sue their asses!

However . . . you are dealing with MOBSTERS and they will force you into lengthy court battles breaking you in the process.

Incidentally attorneys are bound to and work for the court, try and "contract" an attorney to defend YOUR RIGHTS ONLY in court. NONE will sign your contract. They cant. Not and be a bar member at the same time. Its a small world at the top!

Case in point: Look at burzynzki with his cancer cure, 5 times they indicted him and took him into court all FRIVOLOUS and he WON each time and it shows why people just give up to tyranny. Those cases btw even got the attention of congress who appointed to committee to find out just what in the hell the gubafia thought they were doing HARRASSING that man. It of course was all about money.

We have in this country mono-culturalism. MONEY.

anyway there is the substantive definition, in a republic you can have your rights IF you get an honest judge and IF you have pockets that are deep as china and in a democracy you have no recourse what so ever but to bend over and take it.

Either method fails unless government is honest.... Now theres an oxymoron!

kiddo I have forgotten more than you have learned. and you do not use the modern websters in any law proceeding. That is however not true with the 1828 version. see ya.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

I am gone from the discussion because I consider it off-topic. But I would like to help you there - the UK is a republic in the sense people is using this word here, the meaning (2) of the merriam webster, not the (1). This has been used though the whole discussion as far as I can see it.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/republic

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 10/10/2011 11:22:09 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to kdsub)

Profile

Post #: 244

RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/11/2011 2:17:06 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

I am gone from the discussion because I consider it off-topic. But I would like to help you there - the UK is a republic in the sense people is using this word here, the meaning (2) of the merriam webster, not the (1). This has been used though the whole discussion as far as I can see it.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/republic

"in a sense" doesnt matter. The UK either is, or isnt, a Republic. Last time I looked at my passport, it wasnt.

(in reply to SpanishMatMaster)

Profile

Post #: 245

RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/11/2011 2:18:58 AM

SpanishMatMaster

Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
"in a sense" doesnt matter. The UK either is, or isnt, a Republic.

Citibank is a bank in one sense, but not in other: you cannot sit on it.
Apparently you did not pay much attention in the ground school, when the teacher explained you that there are ambiguous words, and that those differente meanings are listed in the dictionaries, etc. Maybe you had a cold that day and you did not go to school. Shit happens.
Anyway, apparently you do not want to understand, so I let it here. I mean.. *slapface* ...

< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 10/11/2011 2:31:45 AM >

(in reply to Politesub53)

Profile

Post #: 246

RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/11/2011 6:15:39 AM

samboct

Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

Well, I can't say I've gone through this thread in gory detail, but I may have something of a different viewpoint to contribute. It's pretty close to ST though in some ways...

Genetics and race don't track real well- you can't look at a person's genes and determine their "race". So race is a human construct- it's something we think we know, but not really. It's a bit more complex than that, but folks with lots of melanin in their skin color have the most genetic diversity of any "race". Using some concrete examples, it's more likely that Lily Bo Peep could be closer genetically to me than to say DYB. So who had sex with whom is really irrelevant to determine much about you in any broad sense. (The specific sense of genetic diseases is different.) Plus, it gets more complicated when you have small populations such as Ashkenazi Jews that don't interbreed much, and thus have some common genetic diseases- but these types of groups are the exception, rather than the rule.

Multiculturalism....Culture is something that anthropologists deal with, not biologists, but its also pretty clear that humans can be assigned to different cultures with a pretty good degree of precision. Thus, they exist, but you can't measure them on a biochemical level. I think this is a distinction that gets lost often. An idea can have no physical existence, but yet, we recognize that ideas do exist on some level. I think culture falls into the same category. So when we try to assign people to cultures based on genetics, it doesn't work- and this is the core of a lot of misunderstandings.

Not being an anthropologist, I don't know how to measure whether a culture is healthy or not or what the lifespan of a culture is. It's clearly multigenerational.

I'm in a profession where we see segregation pretty damn clearly. As a physical scientist (we'll leave the fact as to whether I can be a chemist if I'm not in a lab to a discussion for another day.) the newest data show that a similar percentage of kids- no matter what culture, can have an interest in science pre college. But once they hit college, women and minorities (let's leave that definition aside for the nonce as well) transfer to different majors in a hurry. This to me indicates that the playing field is not level- that there is not equal opportunity for all- and that's a problem in my book. The meetings I go to where new technologies are being discusses, are heavily dominated by men. There are lots of people from the Indian (not Native American) culture, Asians, and white folks, so I don't think the amount of melanin in the skin has much to do with anything. But the African-American and Native American cultures are not grooming people or are prevented from grooming people to take part in areas where new wealth will be generated, thus suggesting that cultures that are not economically successful, will remain disadvantaged in the future as well. This is a current problem that may well have its roots in past injustices, but it does not appear to be solved. This would suggest a different approach than what has been tried previously is needed.

Sam

(in reply to SpanishMatMaster)

Profile

Post #: 247

RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/11/2011 6:52:37 AM

Fightdirecto

Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline

A picture sometimes CAN say a thousand words:

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

(in reply to samboct)

Profile

Post #: 248

RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/11/2011 7:13:47 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

LOL Love it!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Fightdirecto)

Profile

Post #: 249