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RE: American-murdering IRA Terrorist Disapproves of #OW... - 10/9/2011 7:23:50 AM   
farglebargle


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The proscription process was legal and short circuited the need for any trials. Very much like the CIA Hitlist.

If the guy funding the roadside bombs blowing up soldiers in Afghanistan is a murderer, so is Peter King.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 10/9/2011 7:25:02 AM >


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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: American-murdering IRA Terrorist Disapproves of #OW... - 10/9/2011 7:26:41 AM   
Anaxagoras


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We are going around in circles here. I already stated that whilst not an actual murdered, he would be morally responsible for the murder of some. However he is also responsible for helping in a major way to stop such murders subsequently.

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RE: American-murdering IRA Terrorist Disapproves of #OW... - 10/9/2011 7:30:02 AM   
farglebargle


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Again, Darth Vader's deathbed conversion doesn't absolve him from murdering everyone on Alderaan...

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: American-murdering IRA Terrorist Disapproves of #OW... - 10/9/2011 7:31:23 AM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
The proscription process was legal and short circuited the need for any trials. Very much like the CIA Hitlist.

Funny how you moan about King reputedly fundraising for NORAID but justify the use of proscriptions as "legal" - two words I would use are "morally bankrupt":

quote:

An early instance of mass proscription took place in 82 BC, when Lucius Cornelius Sulla was appointed dictator rei publicae constituendae ("Dictator for the Reconstitution of the Republic"). Sulla proceeded to have the Senate draw up a list of those he considered enemies of the state and published the list in the Roman Forum. Any man whose name appeared on the list was ipso facto stripped of his citizenship and excluded from all protection under law; reward money was given to any informer who gave information leading to the death of a proscribed man, and any person who killed a proscribed man was entitled to keep part of his estate (the remainder went to the state). No person could inherit money or property from proscribed men, nor could any woman married to a proscribed man remarry after his death. Many victims of proscription were decapitated and their heads were displayed on spears in the Forum.

Sulla used proscription to restore the depleted Roman Treasury (Aerarium), which had been drained by costly civil and foreign wars in the preceding decade, and to eliminate enemies (both real and potential) of his reformed state and constitutions; the plutocratic knights of the Ordo Equester were particularly hard-hit. Giving the procedure a particularly sinister character in the public eye was the fact that many of the proscribed men, escorted from their homes at night by groups of men all named "Lucius Cornelius," never appeared again. (These men, the Sullani, were all Sulla's freedmen.) This gave rise to a general fear of being taken from one's home at night as a consequence of any outwardly seditious behaviour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proscription

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RE: American-murdering IRA Terrorist Disapproves of #OW... - 10/9/2011 7:33:00 AM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Again, Darth Vader's deathbed conversion doesn't absolve him from murdering everyone on Alderaan...

So a deathbed conversion is the same to you as being a critical player in a peace process that is likely to have avoided the deaths of thousands subsequently...

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RE: American-murdering IRA Terrorist Disapproves of #OW... - 10/9/2011 7:37:29 AM   
farglebargle


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There is nothing Peter King can do to bring those he's responsible for murdering back to life. He made the conscious choice to side with the enemies of civilization, and deserves whatever fate he's chosen.

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: American-murdering IRA Terrorist Disapproves of #OW... - 10/9/2011 7:42:30 AM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
There is nothing Peter King can do to bring those he's responsible for murdering back to life. He made the conscious choice to side with the enemies of civilization, and deserves whatever fate he's chosen.

I never said he wasn't morally responsible for the consequences of fundraising but to ignore a very significant contribution to peace, which he did subsequently is unfair. BTW he was on the opposing side of what was at the time an oppressive force in Northern Ireland that had little moral legitimacy being there so he was hardly an enemy of civilisation as you would put it. Thats an issue for another debate but it is certainly not as black and white as you would portray it.

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RE: American-murdering IRA Terrorist Disapproves of #OW... - 10/9/2011 7:45:36 AM   
farglebargle


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You're basically saying that since Hitler blew his brains out and ended the conflict in the German theater, we should consider all the people he didn't murder from his suicide to whenever, and sorta-overlook the whole death-camp thing....

Once your soul is evil, it's evil.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 10/9/2011 7:46:36 AM >


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: American-murdering IRA Terrorist Disapproves of #OW... - 10/9/2011 7:48:16 AM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
You're basically saying that since Hitler blew his brains out and ended the conflict in the German theater, we should consider all the people he didn't murder from his suicide to whenever, and sorta-overlook the whole death-camp thing....

Once your soul is evil, it's evil.

Er... no... I wasn't saying that...

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RE: American-murdering IRA Terrorist Disapproves of #OW... - 10/9/2011 7:53:43 AM   
farglebargle


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Your point is that all the people who Peter King didn't help murder with his positive act ( allegedly encouraging peace ) should be considered when holding him accountable for the people who Peter King did help murder.

I disagree most strongly.

And as a counter example I suggest that by the same reasoning, all the people who Adolph Hitler didn't help murder with his positive act ( blowing his rotten brains out ) should be considered when holding him accountable for the people who Adolph Hitler did help murder.

Sure it's an outlier, but it shows the deficit in the idea quite well.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: American-murdering IRA Terrorist Disapproves of #OW... - 10/9/2011 9:23:20 AM   
luckydawg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Again, Darth Vader's deathbed conversion doesn't absolve him from murdering everyone on Alderaan...



But what absolves Luke from all the workers he killed on the incomplete Death Star?


Perhaps Lord Vader filled out the paperwork, and all the people on Alderan were legally "Proscribed"?

Which according to you makes them legal "enemies of civilization", and they deserve the fate they have chosen, right?

And really the Dak Lrd has nothing to be absolved from, assuming he did the paperwork and it was "legal".


And all the Ewoks that the Rebels involved in war against the "Forces of Civilization"? Who needs to be responsible for that?

They were terrorists fighting against the legal government.


and since The Sith Lord Vader was the legal governement (the Galatic Empire certainly represents the Forces of Civilization), in the N Ireland/Star Wars analogy, you are taking Vader's side.....

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RE: American-murdering IRA Terrorist Disapproves of #OW... - 10/9/2011 10:59:41 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

Given the way that some nitwits interpret the Bill of Rights, they should be able to get behind the idea of stripping suspected terrorists of their citizenship and casting them out among the wolves


Just who are these "nitwits" who you feel would murder a fellow citizen for being suspected of terrorism?

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RE: American-murdering IRA Terrorist Disapproves of #OW... - 10/9/2011 12:39:32 PM   
subrob1967


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Funny, I didn't hear you whining about that terrorist Teddy Kennedy... Why is that?
More terrorism by good ole Teddy.
The Brits just luvs them terrorists, they even bestowed a Knighthood on one.
Even the Irish are chiming in.

As to the OP... Who gives a fuck, lots of people think OWS is a fucking joke, why should anyone care what this douche thinks?


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RE: American-murdering IRA Terrorist Disapproves of #OW... - 10/9/2011 12:58:01 PM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Your point is that all the people who Peter King didn't help murder with his positive act ( allegedly encouraging peace ) should be considered when holding him accountable for the people who Peter King did help murder.

I disagree most strongly.

I didn't suggest the above at all. I actually said the opposite - that he was still morally responsible for what harm his funding would have done. You keep misrepresenting what I said on this thread. BTW King didn't "allegedly" encourage peace either. He actually did as even political opponents like Clinton acknowledge. That should be sufficient.

quote:


And as a counter example I suggest that by the same reasoning, all the people who Adolph Hitler didn't help murder with his positive act ( blowing his rotten brains out ) should be considered when holding him accountable for the people who Adolph Hitler did help murder.

Sure it's an outlier, but it shows the deficit in the idea quite well.

That is not a reasonable comparison. Most comparisons with Hitler are prejudicial. As I said, a death bed conversion or an act of suicide (especially without remorse) is not morally commensurate with an individual going out of his way to help successfully bring peace to a region where a paramilitary force was active that he is reputed to have aided with funding.

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 10/9/2011 1:26:52 PM >

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RE: American-murdering IRA Terrorist Disapproves of #OW... - 10/9/2011 1:35:59 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Funny, I didn't hear you whining about that terrorist Teddy Kennedy... Why is that?
More terrorism by good ole Teddy.
The Brits just luvs them terrorists, they even bestowed a Knighthood on one.
Even the Irish are chiming in.

How does this post relate to what I posted?
Is there any posibility that you could stay on topic?




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RE: American-murdering IRA Terrorist Disapproves of #OW... - 10/9/2011 2:27:28 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:


But what absolves Luke from all the workers he killed on the incomplete Death Star?


The death star which Luke blew up was complete. The one Lando blew up was still under construction. And those contractors knew what they were getting into.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: American-murdering IRA Terrorist Disapproves of #OW... - 10/9/2011 9:07:45 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

Thompsonx [/I]
How does this post relate to what I posted?
Is there any posibility that you could stay on topic?



Why don't you quote my ENTIRE post? You know, the part that addresses the topic?

< Message edited by subrob1967 -- 10/9/2011 9:08:41 PM >


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