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twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/10/2011 3:02:28 PM

DomKen

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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/opinion/the-myth-of-voter-fraud.html?_r=1&ref=opinion
http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/voting_law_changes_in_2012

Certain Republicans believe the only way they can win elections is to deny the right to vote to groups they don't like. It is shameful that 50 years after we finally got rid the last of the discriminatory impediments to voting some people in power are trying to bring them back.

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/10/2011 4:31:04 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Certain Republicans believe the only way they can win elections is to deny the right to vote to groups they don't like.

The Executive Summary at your second link reads:

State governments across the country...

Wanna explain what kind of gee-whiz crap you're using to transform "state governments across the country" into "Republicans"?

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/10/2011 4:32:05 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/10/2011 4:35:15 PM

willbeurdaddy

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FR

Certain liberals think its fine for people to vote illegally.

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to the barking of the dogfox,
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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/10/2011 4:37:59 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

Certain liberals think its fine for people to vote illegally.

Could you name them or is that a secret?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/10/2011 8:45:26 PM

erieangel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

Certain liberals think its fine for people to vote illegally.

Could you name them or is that a secret?

I'd just like him to name two verifiable instances where liberal voting laws have led to voter fraud which then led to arrest, indictment and conviction of the perpetrators. Just two, willbe.

(in reply to thompsonx)

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/10/2011 8:53:31 PM

tazzygirl

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Indiana's law, passed in 2005, was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2008. Levitt combed through 250 cases of alleged election law fraud cited in legal briefs filed in that challenge. He found only nine instances involving a person allegedly voting in someone else's name, possibly fraudulently or possibly because of an error when the person signed in at the voting booth.
"They identified a lot of fraud, but very, very, very, very, very, very little of it could be prevented by identification at the polls," Levitt said.
The remainder involved vote buying, ballot-box stuffing, problems with absentee ballots, or ex-convicts voting even though laws bar them from doing so. Over the same seven-year time period covered by the cases Levitt reviewed, 400 million votes were cast in general elections.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/24/voter-id-laws-target-rarely-occurring-voter-fraud/#ixzz1aRSUDFL6

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/10/2011 8:54:57 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Certain Republicans believe the only way they can win elections is to deny the right to vote to groups they don't like.

The Executive Summary at your second link reads:

State governments across the country...

Wanna explain what kind of gee-whiz crap you're using to transform "state governments across the country" into "Republicans"?

K.

You failed to read the whole thing I see. The 14 states that made voting harder have state houses run by republicans.

(in reply to Kirata)

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/10/2011 8:59:04 PM

tazzygirl

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WASHINGTON, April 11 — Five years after the Bush administration began a crackdown on voter fraud, the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections, according to court records and interviews.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?pagewanted=all

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/10/2011 9:00:22 PM

tazzygirl

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~FR

I have no problem with Voter ID cards... however... if required, they should be offered for free for those who cannot afford to pay.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/10/2011 9:16:06 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

I have no problem with Voter ID cards... however... if required, they should be offered for free for those who cannot afford to pay.

It's not just the cost, there is a SCOTUS ruling against any poll tax so an ID required for voting must be free, but the difficulty of getting such an ID. If you don't drive due to income or disability simply getting to the nearest DMV office (the usual issuer of such things) can be a challenge. Most such centers simply aren't set up to deal with people physically unable to drive and no accomodation for the needs of people who need the voter ID's have been made. Another challenge for the poor is getting all the documents needed to get the ID.

Once a person is legally registered, which does require ID, it should not be necessary to keep presenting a valid ID every time the voter goes to the polls. Simply checking signatures should be enough.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 10/10/2011 9:17:41 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/10/2011 9:40:43 PM

erieangel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

I have no problem with Voter ID cards... however... if required, they should be offered for free for those who cannot afford to pay.

Scott Walker signed a voter ID law, then proceeded to close the DMV centers located in poorer and Democratic districts. The DMV offices also told employees not to offer the ID cards for free, but that citizens are supposed to ASK for them. My question is a person supposed to know they are required to ask?

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/10/2011 11:53:45 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The 14 states that made voting harder have state houses run by republicans.

Well no, actually you're just making shit up as usual.

Of the 14 states that have passed legislation so far, in fact three legislatures are Democrat controlled and one is divided. Additionally, bills are pending in 16 other states of which 8 have legislatures that are Democrat controlled.

Reference: Post 2010 Election Partisan Composition of State Legislatures

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/10/2011 11:54:52 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/11/2011 12:31:20 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

If you don't drive due to income or disability simply getting to the nearest DMV office (the usual issuer of such things) can be a challenge. Most such centers simply aren't set up to deal with people physically unable to drive and no accomodation for the needs of people who need the voter ID's have been made.

You're making shit up again. Just skimming the list, the various photo ID options include a number of things besides a driver's license. In some cases, absent a photo ID you can still cast a provisional ballot. In other cases, different provisions are available. I'm not going to go down the list state by state. Why don't you do that? It'll be a good exercise in intellectual honesty for you.

Summary of States Laws and Bills

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/11/2011 12:43:29 AM >

(in reply to DomKen)

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/11/2011 5:02:46 AM

DomKen

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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

If you don't drive due to income or disability simply getting to the nearest DMV office (the usual issuer of such things) can be a challenge. Most such centers simply aren't set up to deal with people physically unable to drive and no accomodation for the needs of people who need the voter ID's have been made.

You're making shit up again. Just skimming the list, the various photo ID options include a number of things besides a driver's license. In some cases, absent a photo ID you can still cast a provisional ballot. In other cases, different provisions are available. I'm not going to go down the list state by state. Why don't you do that? It'll be a good exercise in intellectual honesty for you.

Summary of States Laws and Bills

K.

You're making shit up! I said the DMV was the usual issuer not the only possible issuer. Why did you choose to lie about what I wrote?

(in reply to Kirata)

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/11/2011 5:18:13 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The 14 states that made voting harder have state houses run by republicans.

Well no, actually you're just making shit up as usual.

Of the 14 states that have passed legislation so far, in fact three legislatures are Democrat controlled and one is divided. Additionally, bills are pending in 16 other states of which 8 have legislatures that are Democrat controlled.

Reference: Post 2010 Election Partisan Composition of State Legislatures

Alabama
Florida
Georgia
Kansas
Maine
Ohio
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Wisconsin
Are all GOP controlled and all passed measures to make voting harder. So 10 Republican dominated states passed laws making voting harder while Iowa's Republican Governor restricted voting rights by EO.

Quibbling that I miscounted and did forget Rhode Island and West Virginian was Democratically controlled is certainly par for the course. I'm sure my minor mistake is far more important than GOP leaders systematically disenfranchising eligible voters.

(in reply to Kirata)

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/12/2011 10:02:40 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

I have no problem with Voter ID cards... however... if required, they should be offered for free for those who cannot afford to pay.

Why not free for everyone?

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/12/2011 10:04:49 AM

tazzygirl

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The cost of the card is not that big... usually between 10 and 20. Most can afford that, some cannot. For those who cant, give them a card. The right to vote is a right... it cant be taken away without due process.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/12/2011 10:06:55 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

I have no problem with Voter ID cards... however... if required, they should be offered for free for those who cannot afford to pay.

Scott Walker signed a voter ID law, then proceeded to close the DMV centers located in poorer and Democratic districts. The DMV offices also told employees not to offer the ID cards for free, but that citizens are supposed to ASK for them. My question is a person supposed to know they are required to ask?

They all know now. And, for those who cannot afford, the county offices are telling them.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to erieangel)

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/12/2011 10:11:51 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

I have no problem with Voter ID cards... however... if required, they should be offered for free for those who cannot afford to pay.

It's not just the cost, there is a SCOTUS ruling against any poll tax so an ID required for voting must be free, but the difficulty of getting such an ID. If you don't drive due to income or disability simply getting to the nearest DMV office (the usual issuer of such things) can be a challenge. Most such centers simply aren't set up to deal with people physically unable to drive and no accomodation for the needs of people who need the voter ID's have been made. Another challenge for the poor is getting all the documents needed to get the ID.

Once a person is legally registered, which does require ID, it should not be necessary to keep presenting a valid ID every time the voter goes to the polls. Simply checking signatures should be enough.

I do understand your thinking here. I also submit that many of those same people will require transportation to various agencies and Dr appointments.

And, yes, getting that information is a challenge. Its the same challenge they need when they sign up for any type of benefits.

As far as signatures... by 16 I could sign my mothers name just as well as she could.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DomKen)

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RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. - 10/12/2011 10:13:51 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The cost of the card is not that big... usually between 10 and 20. Most can afford that, some cannot. For those who cant, give them a card. The right to vote is a right... it cant be taken away without due process.

Why not free or everyone?

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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Post #: 20