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RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 9:39:35 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
No, it isnt. You seem to have trouble distinguishing between a verb (as used in the Constitution) and a noun.
His point is, I think, that if the judges can reinterpret the law at will, they can change the verb for the noun.



Not if the meaning is already total clear. No judge could change "to estabish" for "a church". Even Sotomayor or Kagan.
Doesn't say "to establish" you're making things up, it says "an establishment".



Im making a damn thing up. "An establishment of" as a verb is exactly the same as "to establish a". It cannot possibly be a noun in the 1st:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

"Free excercise therof" refers to something in the prior phrase, obviously. Buildings cant exercise a damn thing. It is referring to exercise of religion, and the first phrase cannot mean anything other than "Congress shall make make no law that establishes a religion"


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RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 9:40:50 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Since joining this section of the boards, I have been reading alot about atheism from Cline. He says that the dictionaries just dont do atheism justice as a definition.

Do you agree?

Historically the label has been defined by it's opponents and as such has not necessarily reflected the positions of those that it was being applied to with the greatest accuracy. However, in the last few years I've watched as dictionaries have started changing to reflect the positions that exist in the atheism community and I think the Wikipedia entry for atheism does a good job of describing it


The article was written in 2008... enough years ago that the changes you speak of werent in effect then, I would think, but it is a good thing they are now. I like reading his blogs because he doesnt pull any punches for either side. Its sad when people get judged for their religious belief and not their moral character. As we have seen, they arent always one in the same.

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RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 9:43:11 PM   
xssve


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Status: offline 		Well it depends on who you ask now doesn't it?

I find it reassuring that the court has never seen fit to interpret it as a noun, which is something I suspect a strict constructionist would be more likely to do.

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RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 9:45:39 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

Well it depends on who you ask now doesn't it?

I find it reassuring that the court has never seen fit to interpret it as a noun, which is something I suspect a strict constructionist would be more likely to do.



They never have because its impossible to, as I said, even by Kagan or Sotomayor.

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RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 10:16:10 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

Well it depends on who you ask now doesn't it?

You bet it does. Because nobody competent in English would claim that the First Amendment prohibits Congress from making laws respecting church buildings and their right to do calisthenics.

K.




< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/15/2011 10:20:36 PM >

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RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 10:20:34 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

I'm sorry, just when did you gain the authority to tell me what I can and can't reply to?

The same person who made you the authority on what was relevant and what wasnt.
I'm afraid not, I never gave you that authority.

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RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 10:21:55 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Nor did I give you that authority.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)
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RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 10:22:47 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

If irreligion can be called a religion, then what on earth CAN'T be called that?
I think the point is, that according to the establishment clause, the government can't decide what is and what isn't a religion.

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RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 10:24:34 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

Either here or there, Heather's position is wrong.
No, I don't think it is, because they aren't interpreting the words in this case, they are following them.

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Profile   Post #: 469
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 10:25:53 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
What is an atheist vs an agnostic? And a follow up. What is the difference between a hard atheist, a "regular" atheist (if that term is appropriate) and a soft atheist as someone else has suggested?


I sat down to write up a response to this and realized that wikipedia answers these questions more eloquently and in greater detail than I would have. I'd definitely recommend taking a look at those entries. 



Um.. no offence, GS, but its pretty hard to get past the "christianfag" reference in wiki.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 470
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 10:32:16 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

Nor did I give you that authority.
That's irrelevant. You said the same person who made me an authority on what is relevant, and that is me. What you did or didn't do has no bearing on things, because you already excluded yourself.

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RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 10:35:32 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		rofl... my dear, that is not relevant.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)
Profile   Post #: 472
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 10:40:38 PM   
gungadin09


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
I think the point is, that according to the establishment clause, the government can't decide what is and what isn't a religion.

Well then my religion, pamism, prohibits me from paying taxes.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 10/15/2011 10:41:24 PM >

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RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 10:40:43 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Um.. no offence, GS, but its pretty hard to get past the "christianfag" reference in wiki.


Um...I'm going to need some explanation on that one, I haven't the fainest idea what you're talking about.

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RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 10:42:07 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I sat down to write up a response to this and realized that wikipedia answers these questions more eloquently and in greater detail than I would have. I'd definitely recommend taking a look at those entries.


Um.. no offence, GS, but its pretty hard to get past the "christianfag" reference in wiki.

That was eloquent, wasn't it?

K.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 10:44:50 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Um...I'm going to need some explanation on that one, I haven't the fainest idea what you're talking about.

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. It is also used to piss off a bunch of christianfags that have to use stories that, need I remind you, have no actual facts to back them up to prove things.

Edited to add:

It's gone now... it just got yanked. Call it a wardrobe malfunction.

K.




< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/15/2011 10:48:32 PM >

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RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 10:49:59 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

Well then my religion, pamism, prohibits me from paying taxes.
Unfortunately, the government doesn't allow religious doctrine to trump the law. just ask the jailed bigamist LDS types. I'm not sure just how that fits in with the "free practice thereof" but it seems to be a well established precedent.

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Profile   Post #: 477
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 10:52:19 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

rofl... my dear, that is not relevant.
Oh but it is. They are your words, own them. Don't blame me because you talked yourself into a corner trying to be a smartass.

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Profile   Post #: 478
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 10:56:53 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Um.. no offence, GS, but its pretty hard to get past the "christianfag" reference in wiki.


Um...I'm going to need some explanation on that one, I haven't the fainest idea what you're talking about.




Sure

quote:

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. It is also used to piss off a bunch of christianfags that have to use stories that, need I remind you, have no actual facts to back them up to prove things XD[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[4][5] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[5][6]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 479
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/15/2011 10:57:56 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. It is also used to piss off a bunch of christianfags that have to use stories that, need I remind you, have no actual facts to back them up to prove things.

Edited to add:

It's gone now... it just got yanked. Call it a wardrobe malfunction.


Facepalm.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 480
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