RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (Full Version)

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gungadin09 -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 4:24:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

OK... quick, and silly, thought experiment...

Imagine a sealed tin (it's opaque so we cant see through it). It has jelly beans in it. And the person who writes down the exact number of jelly beans wins a car. We can't touch the jar, and it's - say 6 inches tall, and four inches round.

How many jelly beans will you guess?



852 (i think i'm guessing low.)

pam



crazyml -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 4:26:04 AM)

Ok...

That seems high to me.

I don't believe there are 852 jelly beans in that jar.

I say 329.

Now, let's open the competition up.



crazyml -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 4:28:26 AM)

Right I've just sent Heather an email... alas she has some insight that you and I don't have



crazyml -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 4:29:40 AM)

My cat has just joined in... She's annoyed.... there's no possible way to tell.

She doesn't believe that there are 852, or 329 beans in the jar... she's got no idea how many beans there are.




HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 4:44:27 AM)

quote:

I'd say that "I neither accept or reject the existence of god/gods" is totally covered by "agnostic"
Well, we'll have to agree on a definition of 'agnostic" then, because to me it doesn't mean "I neither accept or reject the existence of god/gods", to my understanding it means that the question is unanswerable, which matches the Oxford definition
quote:

a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.
I don't see that as the same thing at all. The first holds no beliefs at all, the second holds the belief that it can't be known. To me it isn't that there is no answer, i don't even ask the question, and I don't care if there is an answer or not.

However, we are getting terribly side-tracked here. We are agreed on a definition of what atheism consists of <Pam's>, and by that definition, it is a religious belief. Now all we have to do is see if we can come to an agreement regarding the other two options and their relationship to atheism.

I maintain that each of the three is a unique subset of a larger, broader philosophical category, that I am calling non-theist, to mean that they are views that, for various reasons do not include a god.

How is that? can we work with that?



crazyml -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 4:49:21 AM)

I think agnostic covers both - "I neither accept or reject the existence of god/gods"... because... "to my understanding it means that the question is unanswerable".

Would that work?

I'm trying to find a way of demonstrating the distinction between...

"I don't believe there is a god" and "I believe there is no god"

I've sent you cmail as part of a silly experiment.



thompsonx -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 4:51:00 AM)

quote:

Here is a candy bar to keep you alive but state law says you cant eat it!


This is called a false equivalency ...but then you knew that.



SpanishMatMaster -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 4:52:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09
Oh my goodness, i'm so confused. To me, "i don't believe god exists" and "i believe god does not exist" mean exactly the same thing.


Again: Not to say "yes", is not the same, as to say "no". Fix your mind on that difference and you will understand. Best regards.



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 4:53:27 AM)

quote:

How many jelly beans will you guess?
Off the top of my head I'd say 3072

Edit: Sorry folks, I have to play catch up because I am running back and forth to make everybody's lunches while carrying on the discussion.



crazyml -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 4:55:31 AM)

Right.

So... pam... do you believe there are 852 jelly beans in the jar? Or is it a guess?

Heather, given the insight you've had (you cheating biatch), do you believe there are 329 jelly beans in the jar?



thompsonx -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 4:57:08 AM)

quote:

Believing the sun will come up is only a belief


It is a belief only to those ignorant of the most basic structure of the solar system.



gungadin09 -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 4:58:43 AM)

i don't believe it. It's a guess. i can see You're about to drop a bomb.

pam



crazyml -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 4:59:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

i can see You're about to drop a bomb.

pam


Maybe you should take over - because I've completely fucking forgotten where I'm taking this!!!!



gungadin09 -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 5:00:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster
Best regards.


And to you.

pam



gungadin09 -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 5:01:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Maybe you should take over - because I've completely fucking forgotten where I'm taking this!!!!



Something about thinking, believing, and knowing, with guessing thrown in on the side?

pam



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 5:02:21 AM)

I haven't checked my mail, my answer is based on the volume of the jar, assuming it is a cylinder, and assuming a jelly bean is effectively a cylinder of 1/4" x 1/2". So using PI to 9 places, the volume of a 6x4 cylinder is roughly 75.39822369 and a jelly bean is around 0.024543693, that gives 3072.

I'll check my mail now.



crazyml -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 5:04:13 AM)

Shit... yes! Thanks
<removed to give Heather a chance to reguess>



gungadin09 -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 5:07:26 AM)

i don't believe that there are 852 beans in the jar. i don't believe that there are not 852 beans in the jar. i do believe that the jar doesn't exist. i believe you're about to say checkmate.

pam



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 5:08:05 AM)

LOL!! OK the insight he gave me was that they were micro jelly beans and i saw them filling it, so I would have doubled my estimate.



crazyml -> RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion (10/12/2011 5:15:33 AM)

Ignore this .... we've a late reguess



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