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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/13/2011 6:57:43 AM   
Owner59


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Ummmm...it`s both?





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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/13/2011 7:37:20 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Ummmm...it`s both?






I know that, you and fargle are both equal opportunity haters. Nice to see you being honest about it.


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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/13/2011 7:41:56 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
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Does wiping dust of the counter require honesty?


You`re comments are about as meaningful as dust.


Didn`t see any input about the fate of those that would/could be harmed by this bill.


Just your silly, meaningless, troll rant.


Which we`ve all heard hundreds of times.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/13/2011 7:45:17 AM >


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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/13/2011 7:47:00 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59




Didn`t see any input about the fate of those that would/could be harmed by this bill.





If you bothered to read and understand the bill you would know that no input is need because no one could be harmed by it.


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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/13/2011 7:57:59 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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<dusting>

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/13/2011 8:34:34 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

Catholics place equal emphasis on the mother and the child.
They would attempt an early induction of labor and try to save them both. I can't think of any time when intentionally killing the child saves the mothers life that delivering the child early also wouldn't save the mother's life.

preclampsia(sp)
extreme hydrocephelus
any other condition where the only way to get the live fetus out requires a c section.

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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/13/2011 8:43:26 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

<dusting>


Ahhhh, finally an explanation.....you must be one of the last PCP users around.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/13/2011 3:01:04 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

I can't think of any time when intentionally killing the child saves the mothers life that delivering the child early also wouldn't save the mother's life.

quote:

Ectopic pregnancy
Placenta Previa in some cases
Even Pregnancy Induced Hypertension can result in the necessity.


quote:

preclampsia(sp)
extreme hydrocephelus
any other condition where the only way to get the live fetus out requires a c section.


Thanks Tazzy and DK!

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/14/2011 5:46:13 PM   
searching4mysir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


Hmm.. guess you never heard of a partial abruption.

Ectopic pregnancy


Remove the fallopian tube. The intent is to remove the diseased/damaged tissue, not kill the child, thus not an abortion.

quote:

Placenta Previa in some cases


Deliver the child early. If the child dies, at least you tried to give it a shot.

quote:

Even Pregnancy Induced Hypertension can result in the necessity.


Again, deliver the child early. You don't have to intentionally kill the child in order to remove it from the mother's body.

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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/14/2011 5:58:01 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
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Sorry,when politics and medicine mix,medicine always loses....as does the patients also.


There shouldn`t be ANY restrictions that might cause someone harm.


To even ONE person.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/14/2011 6:39:11 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

Ectopic pregnancy Remove the fallopian tube. The intent is to remove the diseased/damaged tissue, not kill the child, thus not an abortion.


Oh boy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectopic_pregnancy

An ectopic pregnancy, or eccysis , is a complication of pregnancy in which the embryo implants outside the uterine cavity.[1] With rare exceptions, ectopic pregnancies are not viable. Furthermore, they are dangerous for the parent, since internal haemorrhage is a life threatening complication. Most ectopic pregnancies occur in the Fallopian tube (so-called tubal pregnancies), but implantation can also occur in the cervix, ovaries, and abdomen. An ectopic pregnancy is a potential medical emergency, and, if not treated properly, can lead to death.

...Complications

The most common complication is rupture with internal haemorrhage which may lead to hypovolaemic shock. Death from rupture is rare in women who have access to modern medical facilities.


Which this bill would deny, from the sounds of it.

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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/14/2011 8:23:11 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


Hmm.. guess you never heard of a partial abruption.

Ectopic pregnancy


Remove the fallopian tube. The intent is to remove the diseased/damaged tissue, not kill the child, thus not an abortion.

why damage the woman's fertility rather than ending a pregnancy safely and efficiently?

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/14/2011 8:41:50 PM   
KeriB


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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


Hmm.. guess you never heard of a partial abruption.

Ectopic pregnancy


Remove the fallopian tube. The intent is to remove the diseased/damaged tissue, not kill the child, thus not an abortion.

quote:

Placenta Previa in some cases


Deliver the child early. If the child dies, at least you tried to give it a shot.

quote:

Even Pregnancy Induced Hypertension can result in the necessity.


Again, deliver the child early. You don't have to intentionally kill the child in order to remove it from the mother's body.




And what happens when you deliver that child early and they have medical issues for the rest of their life, such as cerebral palsy or other neurological problems?


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I've seen honest faces, they usually come attached to liars.

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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/14/2011 11:23:51 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
Ladies and Gentlemen

In a nut shell, the person has no clue about the reproductive system nor about the complications of each problem that was listed.

quote:

Remove the fallopian tube. The intent is to remove the diseased/damaged tissue, not kill the child, thus not an abortion.


An ectopic pregnancy is not a diseased or damaged tissue. It doesnt have to be within the Fallopian tube itself. All ectopic means is that it is located outside the uterus. But we will stick with the tube itself for now. Many have been found because the pregnancy is discovered and a routine ultrasound does not locate the fetus within the uterus. Once it IS located within the fallopian tube, it is then adviced to be removed, even though the fetus has a heart beat and no damage has yet occured.

Medical
Early treatment of an ectopic pregnancy with methotrexate is a viable alternative to surgical treatment[22] since at least 1993.[23] If administered early in the pregnancy, methotrexate terminates the growth of the developing embryo; this may cause an abortion, or the tissue may then be either resorbed by the woman's body or pass with a menstrual period. Contraindications include liver, kidney, or blood disease, as well as an ectopic mass > 3.5 cm.
[edit]

Surgical
If hemorrhage has already occurred, surgical intervention may be necessary. However, whether to pursue surgical intervention is an often difficult decision in a stable patient with minimal evidence of blood clot on ultrasound.[citation needed]
Surgeons use laparoscopy or laparotomy to gain access to the pelvis and can either incise the affected Fallopian and remove only the pregnancy (salpingostomy) or remove the affected tube with the pregnancy (salpingectomy). The first successful surgery for an ectopic pregnancy was performed by Robert Lawson Tait in 1883.[24]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectopic_pregnancy#Treatment

Both medical and surgical are considered an abortion.

quote:

quote:

Placenta Previa in some cases



Deliver the child early. If the child dies, at least you tried to give it a shot.



A partial separation of the placenta is dangerous for both mother and child, depending on the degree of separation. Again, you do not speak with a great deal of knowledge on this issue.

quote:

quote:

Even Pregnancy Induced Hypertension can result in the necessity.



Again, deliver the child early. You don't have to intentionally kill the child in order to remove it from the mother's body


Again, your lack of knowledge is showing.

The only known treatments for eclampsia or advancing pre-eclampsia are abortion or delivery, either by labor induction or Caesarean section.

Just trying to deliver a baby to such a mother can kill her. Not in all cases, that determination is best left to the physician.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-eclampsia#Complications

But, of course, since you are a trained physician and can make these determinations yourself, I would love to see your research on these issues, the results of the outcomes of the cases you have handled and the various teaching hospitals you have given lectures. Because, obviously, you know so much more than the current literature and standards of care are recommending.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 10/14/2011 11:25:17 PM >


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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/16/2011 5:31:17 PM   
Masta808


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This is the 7th anti-abortion bill the House introduce. They still have yet to introduce a Jobs bill. Why? its Simple, the Government DOES NOT CREATE JOBS. So what is the point of trying. No it doesnt matter that Conservative ran on a platform of decreasing unemployment and fixing the economy.

Also when Rick Perry claims he created thousands of jobs in Texas its because he hired the people himself and NO it wasnt a government jobs. Rick Perry is RICH and therefore a job creator therefore the only logical explanation is that he hired those people himself because the GOVERNMENT DOESNT CREATE JOBS

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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/17/2011 12:52:19 AM   
avena


Posts: 80
Joined: 12/4/2010
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quote:

I can't think of any time when intentionally killing the child saves the mothers life that delivering the child early also wouldn't save the mother's life.


How about cancer?

Personal story of someone who is close to me - Single mother with 2 beautiful boys at the time - 3 years old and 6 years old. Found a lump in her breast. Went to the doctor. Mammogram, ultrasound, biopsy, etc later, the diagnosis is cancer. The treatment, immediate surgery. During routine blood work prior to the scheduled surgery, it was discovered that she was pregnant. A little math, and an ultrasound, indicated that she was about 7 weeks pregnant.

So what's her choice? Attempt to carry the fetus to term, and risk the cancer spreading, possibly resulting in her death and leaving three children orphaned? Or go ahead with an abortion and fight hard to make sure that the two children she already had still had a mother to raise them?

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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/17/2011 4:03:51 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Ladies and Gentlemen

In a nut shell, the person has no clue about the reproductive system nor about the complications of each problem that was listed.

quote:

Remove the fallopian tube. The intent is to remove the diseased/damaged tissue, not kill the child, thus not an abortion.


An ectopic pregnancy is not a diseased or damaged tissue. It doesnt have to be within the Fallopian tube itself. All ectopic means is that it is located outside the uterus. But we will stick with the tube itself for now. Many have been found because the pregnancy is discovered and a routine ultrasound does not locate the fetus within the uterus. Once it IS located within the fallopian tube, it is then adviced to be removed, even though the fetus has a heart beat and no damage has yet occured.

Medical
Early treatment of an ectopic pregnancy with methotrexate is a viable alternative to surgical treatment[22] since at least 1993.[23] If administered early in the pregnancy, methotrexate terminates the growth of the developing embryo; this may cause an abortion, or the tissue may then be either resorbed by the woman's body or pass with a menstrual period. Contraindications include liver, kidney, or blood disease, as well as an ectopic mass > 3.5 cm.
[edit]

Surgical
If hemorrhage has already occurred, surgical intervention may be necessary. However, whether to pursue surgical intervention is an often difficult decision in a stable patient with minimal evidence of blood clot on ultrasound.[citation needed]
Surgeons use laparoscopy or laparotomy to gain access to the pelvis and can either incise the affected Fallopian and remove only the pregnancy (salpingostomy) or remove the affected tube with the pregnancy (salpingectomy). The first successful surgery for an ectopic pregnancy was performed by Robert Lawson Tait in 1883.[24]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectopic_pregnancy#Treatment

Both medical and surgical are considered an abortion.

quote:

quote:

Placenta Previa in some cases



Deliver the child early. If the child dies, at least you tried to give it a shot.



A partial separation of the placenta is dangerous for both mother and child, depending on the degree of separation. Again, you do not speak with a great deal of knowledge on this issue.

quote:

quote:

Even Pregnancy Induced Hypertension can result in the necessity.



Again, deliver the child early. You don't have to intentionally kill the child in order to remove it from the mother's body


Again, your lack of knowledge is showing.

The only known treatments for eclampsia or advancing pre-eclampsia are abortion or delivery, either by labor induction or Caesarean section.

Just trying to deliver a baby to such a mother can kill her. Not in all cases, that determination is best left to the physician.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-eclampsia#Complications

But, of course, since you are a trained physician and can make these determinations yourself, I would love to see your research on these issues, the results of the outcomes of the cases you have handled and the various teaching hospitals you have given lectures. Because, obviously, you know so much more than the current literature and standards of care are recommending.


She said she didn't see why trying to deliver the baby wasn't an option. You called her an idiot (no not in those words, but it was implied) and then post your findings which state "The only known treatments for eclampsia or advancing pre-eclampsia are abortion or delivery, either by labor induction or Caesarean section."

Not sure what point you are trying to prove here?


_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/17/2011 6:22:30 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

She said she didn't see why trying to deliver the baby wasn't an option. You called her an idiot (no not in those words, but it was implied) and then post your findings which state "The only known treatments for eclampsia or advancing pre-eclampsia are abortion or delivery, either by labor induction or Caesarean section."

Not sure what point you are trying to prove here?


Why would any physician perform an abortion when a C-section would work? Think about it.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/17/2011 6:53:28 AM   
searching4mysir


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Joined: 6/16/2011
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You guys realize that you are arguing over 1%-3% of all abortions, don't you? Between 97%-99% of all abortions are elective surgery for the sole reason that a human being is inconvenient. Since when should cerebral palsy be a death sentence? Have you never known someone with CP? I know adults with CP who live fulfilling lives. When asked 97% of adults with Downs Syndrome are happy, yet 90% of pregnancies diagnosed with Downs are terminated.

I don't believe it should be up to any human being to say that a particular human being has no worth and deserves to die. Humanity gets into all kinds of trouble when they do that. For those who say "it's legal", so was slavery.

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RE: Republican "Let The Woman Die" bill movin... - 10/17/2011 7:40:47 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

You guys realize that you are arguing over 1%-3% of all abortions, don't you? Between 97%-99% of all abortions are elective surgery for the sole reason that a human being is inconvenient


That's a pretty good reason. Human life is cheap. Just look at all the people Right-To-Lifers execute if you disagree....

Easiest way to cut welfare is to subsidize abortion.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 10/17/2011 7:42:25 AM >


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