RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (Full Version)

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barelynangel -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 3:33:49 AM)

Ironically I've seen two people use "they are kids or they are teenagers" all the while complaining they are being treated like kids I.e. Have a decision of theirs negated by an authority such as a school.

Not sure if the people who said it and implied it realize this.

They are in fact kids, which means at times adults make decisions for them.

Angel



NocturnalStalker -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 4:08:49 AM)

quote:

no fucking shit stalky, but i hand it to the old biddies, it seems they managed to royally piss off one of the calmest and gentlest people on the boards purely out of fucking spite. way to fucking go babes, way to fucking go.


Yeah, I've never had issue with Aneka.  She's actually one of the few people I genuinely enjoy reading on here.  As I said before, her posts can make you think and are worded very eloquently when you consider English is her secondary language. 

Of course most people here would rather strip away anything unique that has a dash of natural charisma attached to it. 

... And stop calling me "Stalky."  >=(



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 4:18:08 AM)

Last April, a federal judge in Pennsylvania ruled that students do have a constitutional right to wear the "I Love Boobies!" bracelets in a classroom.  Legal precedent allows a school to ban or prohibit “lewd” speech, but the court found that the “I Love Boobies!” bracelets were not lewd in the context in which they were worn.

http://www.grahamlawyerblog.com/2011/04/16/i-love-boobies-bracelets-protected-by-first-amendment-in-school-says-court/

From the ruling itself:

The two Supreme Court cases examining student speech that are most relevant to
this case are Fraser and Tinker.

First amendment rights of students in the classroom or a closely associated school function, *IS* quite controversial, I never said it wasn't. Many school admin decisions go unchallenged b/c the decision conforms to community standards. There are two ways to look at this: That the schools should uphold community standards at the cost of students' first amendment rights, or that constitutional rights are more important. I obviously prefer the latter interpretation, and I am clearly not the only one.

However, I am not going to continue this particular pissing match. The absurd need to be right at any cost of some of the posters on this board does not lead to discussion.

It's fairly easy to hurl insults, not so easy to actually be able to back up your arguments and at least attempt to reach a consensus.

But, you know, carry on.









TheFireWithinMe -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 4:18:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: AneNoz

The law is not at issue, nor as well is the culture of my country. It is the falseness of the public puritanical morality of America that is at issue as it is this upon which the decision was made.

Be at peace
Aneka



Since you don't live here, and barely speak the language, you really are not in a position to judge. But thanks for playing. Next time you would like to take your High English and try to subtly insult the people of the site in the country you are insulting, you might think twice. Brainiac you ain't sweet cheeks. Nothing but a pot stirrer.


Are you kidding? Aneka writes in better English than most of the posters here. Her posts are a joy to read and beautifully written. Also, insulting people is pretty much the LAST thing she does. It may take longer to understand her but I for one think it's worth the effort.



Aileen1968 -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 5:14:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AneNoz

Upon whom would you wish such an unpleasantness?

Be at peace
Aneka



HAHAHA



Aileen1968 -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 5:17:40 AM)

Personally...I think the school was within their rights.
I also think the cheerleaders would have made a much stronger and mature impact had they gone with a classier slogan.



geilematz -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 5:45:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: AneNoz

The law is not at issue, nor as well is the culture of my country. It is the falseness of the public puritanical morality of America that is at issue as it is this upon which the decision was made.

Be at peace
Aneka



Since you don't live here, and barely speak the language, you really are not in a position to judge. But thanks for playing. Next time you would like to take your High English and try to subtly insult the people of the site in the country you are insulting, you might think twice. Brainiac you ain't sweet cheeks. Nothing but a pot stirrer.


Thank you very much for this your insult of her, and I'd say all non-US folks on here - as a remedy I 'd propose to split this into 2 sites, one for you US buddies, and another for the rest. But since at present this is an international site, and you and many more amply discuss US-related topics to a massive extent, you folks should be able to face what Europeans etc think about all that stuff.
btw Malta is and has been a bi-lingual country for centuries, Maltese - and English (well the English English ...) - just to mention.

Greetings to beautiful Malta



Marc2b -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 7:33:05 AM)

quote:

I also think the cheerleaders would have made a much stronger and mature impact had they gone with a classier slogan.


That is it in a nutshell, at least as far as I am concerned. Let’s show a little fucking class! This is a high school football game not your hangout behind the 7-11.

---------------------

I would also like to point out, to whom it may concern, that AneNoz is dead on about sexuality and American Culture. When it comes to sexuality we are a schizophrenic culture. In our politics, our broadcast media, and our “official” view of adolescent sexuality we are very prudish but a quick check beneath the surface reveals that we match any other culture on the planet for horniness and “depravity.” Hell, we outshine some of them.

As a culture I think we are dreadfully unfair to our adolescents. Our official message to them (when we are not busy pretending that they are neuters who don’t switch on until their eighteenth birthday), via the “church” and “mainstream” media is: “DON’T DO IT! DON’T DO IT! DON’T DO IT! ESPECIALLY IF YOU’RE A GIRL BECAUSE THEN YOU’RE A SLUT!” Yet at the same time we bombard them with entertainment and advertising that tells them how un-cool they are if they don’t do it. Is it any wonder teenagers tend to be a little koo-koo? Adolescence is hard enough with us screwing them up even more.



GreedyTop -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 7:39:33 AM)

I think the slogan was fine.
it was not "not classy" to my mind..

it coulda been smoething like "cancer kills your bits.. feel your tits"



Marc2b -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 7:49:44 AM)

quote:

I think the slogan was fine.
it was not "not classy" to my mind..

it coulda been smoething like "cancer kills your bits.. feel your tits"


To me the classiness has more to do with the location than the slogan itself.

I still like: "Mastectomies take all the fun out of tit bondage."



GreedyTop -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 8:06:54 AM)

ok.. I liek that too.. but how much of the general population that might be prone to breast cancer would that actually resonate with>?



Iamsemisweet -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 8:20:03 AM)

The disconnect I am having is that I just don't see the slogan as all that offensive. And in light of what kids are exposed to every day, on TV, music, and yes, at school, I just see it as disingenuous, cynical, and falsely puritanical on the part of the school administration.

But that's just me.



Epytropos -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 9:26:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AneNoz

It is meaning that a thing is by virtue of that it should be. Est ergo debeat it is Latin meaning - should therefore is.

Very close. Est ergo debeat is "It is (est), therefore (ergo) it should be (debeat)." At least, if my Latin isn't failing me, which is a possibility I'll allow for. The fallacy is to state that because something is a certain way, that is good. She listed other examples of something like this happening. I don't find that to be relevant. I could list lots of examples of serial killers, they're definitely a thing that happens, but I think most of us would agree taht serial killers are bad and should not be allowed to continue.

ETA: To those who are saying est ergo debeat is irrational, that's what makes it the est ergo debeat fallacy. If it was logical, it wouldn't be a fallacy, now would it? It would be a maxim. That was very much my point.



HannahLynn -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 9:42:46 AM)

quote:

I think most of us would agree taht serial killers are bad and should not be allowed to continue.
well lets not be too hasty here



Epytropos -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 9:46:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynn

quote:

I think most of us would agree taht serial killers are bad and should not be allowed to continue.
well lets not be too hasty here

You'll note my measured use of qualifiers [;)]



Amygdalin -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 9:56:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes
Yes, guys can be pigs, and guys that age forget which head to think with on an alarmingly regular basis


As a young guy, I know this to be true. I was raised a bit differently though and taught to think with my brain, or "big head" if you want to call it that. But what about vice versa? Maybe if girls dressed a little more modestly and weren't teasing with flashing so much skin, the guys would be able to manage a little better. I hate to keep going back to my games but when I'm on the bench, all the guys are looking and making lewd comments at the girl in the stands with the short skirt and tight fitting shirt that reveals her assets.

The girl wearing jeans, arctic boots to keep warm and a full sweater..... not so much.

I am not turning this into a finger pointing thing. It goes both ways. Guys and girls both need to work at it.

quote:


I think that the girls could have been more mature about it - but duh, they are teens. Teens do stupid, attention grabbing things. That isn't news. To make a big deal of it? Just makes it that much worse, in my opinion.



What would make it worse is if those more responsible let teens continue to do stupid things and grow up that way. You're also going to do a huge disservice to those teens by turning them loose in a world without giving them some kind of compass. I know several people this way. Now, in their 20's they are forced to learn a lot of things they could have easily come to grips with as a teenager had they had some kind of guidance.

All the more reason for a more responsible entity, be it the school or I'd rather be it the parents, to step in and direct them so they don't get away with doing stupid things. Kids aren't responsible to make a lot of decisions on their own. I was brought up in a fairly traditional way and I've been more responsible than most my age, but even with that in mind, when I look back at my teens, which weren't so long ago, I realize I could have made some disastrous decisions had it not been for parents or others to help me.

Granted, this isn't a disastrous mistake. It's a slogan on a shirt. But, this is what the kids are doing even under some semblance of authority. If there were no such presence at all, imagine what would be happening.

Just as an afterthought too, their decision was quite "passive aggressive." In my opinion, they did not challenge the school because they knew they were out of bounds for that school's rules. They are going to make a lot less money selling those shirts for 15 dollars a piece than if they had an actual fundraiser. Their story has been put in the news. They just got free advertising. Why not use it to organize an event off school grounds and really raise some money for cancer awareness? This also tells me that maybe they were more concerned with being cute and trendy than the actual cause itself.



Amygdalin -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 9:59:00 AM)

That second block is mine too. Sorry, I messed up the stupid quote button...

Nevermind. Fixed it. I'm a dummy...



PeonForHer -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 10:01:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I think the slogan was fine.
it was not "not classy" to my mind..

it coulda been smoething like "cancer kills your bits.. feel your tits"


I don't think it was aiming at 'classy', but I don't think it was aiming at lewd, either.

That is, assuming that 'lump' isn't slang for something rude in the USA, and that 'bump' isn't seen as a very crude word for breasts. And I assumed, the instant that I saw it, that the injunction to 'Feel for lumps, save the bumps!' was aimed at girls/women to get them examine their own breasts by feeling for lumps.

Pfft. If I were the principal involved in this case, I'd be very glad for it to end up in court. That way, I'd no longer have moral responsibility for the issue one way or the other. I do agree with AneNoz on this point: this is less about a college principal swinging his weight around so much as it's about the attitudes of the public at large. And people do tend to be conservative when it comes to their children, in a way that they're not with themselves. Whether that's right or wrong is a whole big discussion all of its own.



GreedyTop -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 10:36:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I think the slogan was fine.
it was not "not classy" to my mind..

it coulda been smoething like "cancer kills your bits.. feel your tits"


I don't think it was aiming at 'classy', but I don't think it was aiming at lewd, either.

That is, assuming that 'lump' isn't slang for something rude in the USA, and that 'bump' isn't seen as a very crude word for breasts. And I assumed, the instant that I saw it, that the injunction to 'Feel for lumps, save the bumps!' was aimed at girls/women to get them examine their own breasts by feeling for lumps.

Pfft. If I were the principal involved in this case, I'd be very glad for it to end up in court. That way, I'd no longer have moral responsibility for the issue one way or the other. I do agree with AneNoz on this point: this is less about a college principal swinging his weight around so much as it's about the attitudes of the public at large. And people do tend to be conservative when it comes to their children, in a way that they're not with themselves. Whether that's right or wrong is a whole big discussion all of its own.



I agree.

now c'mere and feel my bumps ;)



barelynangel -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/19/2011 5:53:23 PM)

ChatteParfaitt

Seems to me you are fighting to be right here --- you cited a case without knowing or caring about the Amendments to that case.    I agree, there are many many different interpretations of law, but to disregard amendments is missing the changes that have been made to the opinion.  

I will apologize for my discretionary cost comment, it was a little bitchy.

BTW, here's a suggestion -- when you google DO NOT use an attorney's blog as your supporting argument lol.  

Here's why, that case you are so proud of   has been appealed to the USCA for the Third Circuit -- Case No. 11-2067.  So again, your googling didn't give you all the information.   What you would probably like to know is there are amicus briefs being filed in that appeal.  But as of 10/4/11, no opinion has been filed. 

The thing is, when you start throwing out cases you are finding through google, there are more than likely just as many that are of a differing opinion.  The way you can know this is read the briefs of the parties, they use cases and their interpretations of same and their responses and replies of the parties to convince the court that their position is the correct interpretation.  As you implied earlier, cases are abundant regarding rights of school -- and in EACH of those cases, attorneys each have cases that support their arguments.

I find it funny that you CONTINUE to try and be right by throwing out a case saying SEE, and then saying anyone who responds to your post countering what you have posted must just need to be right.   I would have respected you more if you just didn't feel the need to post that last comment WHILE throwing out a case trying to make YOUR argument the right one.

angel



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