quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

Nothing personal but... if the US doesn't want Canada's oil, China does..

Sinopec (China) already owns much of it. But until "closer' and more easily refinable  oil gets way pricier, China makes more money selling it to the roundeyes, then they would if they did ship it to China. Even the tar sands and shale in the US are still to costly to mine and process, considering all the labor and regulatory costs.

Those tar sands would be sitting untouched if Canada could not sell the petroleum from them to the US. It isn't even economical most the time to ship the oil; to Eastern Canada, yet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

lol And yet Exxon Mobil is going to be shipping oil via the pipeline from the Kearl project in Alberta to Texas in 2012...

The statement about China wanting it came from Exxon Mobil regarding Kearl and the pipeline to Texas. Basically, get it done. I, however, personally dont care if it is or not, imo those jobs should stay in Alberta where they belong..

I somehow dont see oil getting cheaper, given that China's energy needs is increasing rapidly, they will be the 2nd biggest energy consumer (behind the US) very soon. China buys a lot of Canada's coal, I am sure oil wont be far behind (or why buy stakes in it?). They might be selling it to the roundeyes now, but oil isnt going to be getting any cheaper, imo. And they do tend to think longer term than the US does, imo. If ya'll have a hard on for them "stealing" American jobs,.. i wonder whats gonna happen when they decide to take more and more of that oil for themselves instead.. It will be interesting..

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ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker
The pipeline to anywhere in North America from Alberta will be far cheaper then shipping it in the massive chain of  tankers to China, or anywhere else in Asia, and will be for some period of time. Once you get a pipeline built, shipping oil with it is pretty inexpensive.

And the intial cost of getting the tar oil processed into shippable form is far higher then pumping that light sweet crude out of the ground and onto a tanker, like the Arabian oil.

The more fuel costs the more it cost to run a vessel. The supertankers are pretty efficient ships, but still, running 60 and 70 thousand horsepower engines wide open and around the clock is not cheap.

But for the foreseeable future, Canada depends on the US to buy it from Alberta

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And there would also be some foolishness to shipping to Quebec, it would be akin to our foolishness of letting Jefferson Davis be secretary of the war department prior to the civil war and then letting him move all the federal armories south that he could.

Quebec is tenuous in terms of the Canadian states. They got that poussy foussy goin on with them.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

As has been pointed out before, tar or oil sands do not really have oil.  It is bitumen, which is a tar like substance that is the basis for synthetic oil production.

You dont drill for it, you use surface mining and the particulates have to be removed on site before you can do much else with it.  To pump it through a pipeline, it has to be either heated or mixed with lighter hydrocarbons. 

It is called unconventional oil.  It is more expensive to refine and if you want cheap affordable gas, then you are looking in the wrong place.

Sanity made the statement that "many leftists dont care that higher energy costs are causing poor people to go hungry and to do without many of lifes necessities..." and yet he is advocating a resource that will RAISE the cost of gasoline at the pump.

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In mid-2006, the National Energy Board of Canada estimated the operating cost of a new mining operation in the Athabasca oil sands to be C$9 to C$12 per barrel, while the cost of an in-situ SAGD operation (using dual horizontal wells) would be C$10 to C$14 per barrel. This compares to operating costs for conventional oil wells which can range from less than one dollar per barrel in Iraq and Saudi Arabia to over six in the United States and Canada's conventional oil reserves.
The capital cost of the equipment required to mine the sands and haul it to processing is a major consideration in starting production. The NEB estimates that capital costs raise the total cost of production to C$18 to C$20 per barrel for a new mining operation and C$18 to C$22 per barrel for a SAGD operation. This does not include the cost of upgrading the crude bitumen to synthetic crude oil, which makes the final costs C$36 to C$40 per barrel for a new mining operation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

In mid-2006, the National Energy Board of Canada estimated the operating cost of a new mining operation in the Athabasca oil sands to be C$9 to C$12 per barrel, while the cost of an in-situ SAGD operation (using dual horizontal wells) would be C$10 to C$14 per barrel. This compares to operating costs for conventional oil wells which can range from less than one dollar per barrel in Iraq and Saudi Arabia to over six in the United States and Canada's conventional oil reserves.
The capital cost of the equipment required to mine the sands and haul it to processing is a major consideration in starting production. The NEB estimates that capital costs raise the total cost of production to C$18 to C$20 per barrel for a new mining operation and C$18 to C$22 per barrel for a SAGD operation. This does not include the cost of upgrading the crude bitumen to synthetic crude oil, which makes the final costs C$36 to C$40 per barrel for a new mining operation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands

Please note the costs of production for tar sands, and tell me that those costs will not be passed on to the consumer.

You are dreaming if you think it won't be.

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ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

If they had any sense they would pipe it east, not west, and end Ontario and Quebec's reliance on foreign oil.

Of course, corporate Canada woudl take a beating, in that case.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And there would also be some foolishness to shipping to Quebec, it would be akin to our foolishness of letting Jefferson Davis be secretary of the war department prior to the civil war and then letting him move all the federal armories south that he could.

Quebec is tenuous in terms of the Canadian states. They got that poussy foussy goin on with them.

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ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker
Right now there is enough complaints in the Dominion on just how the gas prices from province to province do not reflect the actual corporate costs, to obtain, process and transport it to where it is sold. Ontario for instance, gets robbed  at the gas pump.

This has already caused Parliamentary inquiries, when for example, gasoline on the ALCAN in the Yukon or in Nunavut costs less per liter then it does in Ottawa.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

http://www.albertaoilmagazine.com/2011/09/enhanced-oil-recovery-%E2%80%93-show-me-the-money/

so, it is very dependent upon extraction conditions and methods. operating is going to be of course cheaper. West Texas is going 87 bucks a barrel and brent 114.

Price would rise.