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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 5:57:59 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		The school's attitude does seem to be that they already have your money, so it's not their problem. I have heard of private trade schools losing their accreditation for having too high a default rate, but that doesn't help the student. The big state universities don't seem to get in trouble. And they are the ones raising tuition 17% per year and misrepresenting job placement rates.
I think people should no longer assume that education is the key to a better life. Enslaving yourself to student loans makes no sense.





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The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 6:03:01 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Student loans are usually guaranteed by the government, so the bank's profit isn't the issue
quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynn

quote:

What does that teach about responsibility?

and not forgiving the loans teaches them what? that the fucking bank's profits are more important than their ability to lead a decent life?


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 6:13:45 PM   
refresh


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Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Can I put an idea forward? As an Englishman I have a different student loan policy. We borrow from the Govt. with an interest rate that matches inflation and crucially our repayments only start once we earn over £15k p.a. These repayments come out of out gross income (pre tax) and the payments are 9% of what you earn over £15k p.a. i.e. affordable.

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 6:25:29 PM   
KeriB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Student loans are usually guaranteed by the government, so the bank's profit isn't the issue




I just wanted to point out that only some loans are guaranteed by the government. They are called federal or direct loans now. They do offer several types of repayment plans based on income level and they can be forgiven if you work in the public service sector after a certain number of years. Also, these federal loans now have a limit of usually 25 or 30 years and whatever is left at the end of the is forgiven. However, if you are in default on the loans they do not allow you to have them forgiven, so in a sense they can follow you to your grave. Federal loans are also generally not allowed to be discharged in bankruptcy, you have to prove undue hardship, which is very hard to do.


Now there is another type of student loan that is all about the banks, these are called private student loans and are guaranteed by the bank or some other banking institution. These loans are also very hard to get rid of in bankruptcy and you have to prove undue hardship, but the problem with these loans is that they do not offer income based repayment plans and you have to make the payment they set up on the promissory note, unless you can get them to work with you, which generally does not happen.








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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 6:27:53 PM   
erieangel


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Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		Our culture says that without an education you can't live the American dream.  We are big on education so long as it is an expensive one that the tax payers are not paying for (look at what is happening with cuts to public education across the board).  So kids go to college to get that education they are told they need--and in recent years more and more graduates are not able to find jobs even when they major in stuff like health care, computer administration, business.  These kids, and their parents, were sold a bill of goods that isn't worth spit.  So yeah, every college graduate who has been unable to find a job should at the very least have their loans suspended until the economy improves. 

True story:  I had my student loans forgiven after I became disabled and was unable even to finish college.  But now I am stuck between a rock and hard place, now that I'm no longer disabled, I am still unable to complete my degree unless I want over $26,000 worth of loans reinstated.  I can work full time at the job I've got (or maybe a slightly better one I interviewed for today) but still live below the poverty line, or I can take a debt I am not prepared to take on at my age.

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 6:33:03 PM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		WTF.  Didn't we already bail the banks out over the bad RE loans they made?  Screw 'em, ain't gonna do it again.

And if you read the petition's language, it basically says that this will be a stimulus.  One aimed at college graduates and the banks that loan to them, no less.  Not exactly an unprivileged class.  The issue with this, as with all stimuli, is that someday it will need to be paid back. 


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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 6:45:15 PM   
windchymes


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Status: offline 		WTF again, when did the meaning of "loan" change? The whole concept of a "loan" is, you ASK someone to LEND you money for a time for something you want and you AGREE to pay it back, and then you PAY IT BACK. When did it change to "pay it back if you can, if you can't don't worry, we'll find some lame excuse to get you out of it"? When did being a stupid fuck cancel your right to having the money you loaned someone repaid to you? Are there now criteria for negating the moral obligation to repay money that you borrowed and promised to pay back?

Unless there were preset conditions, like forgiveness of a loan for working in the public sector or something like that, otherwise, you borrow money, you promise to pay it back.

edited to add: I came back to say that this is not directed at people who did have loans forgiven for legitimate hardship reasons. I apoloigize if I sounded harsh in that respect, it was not intended that way.



< Message edited by windchymes -- 10/17/2011 6:56:09 PM >

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 6:49:42 PM   
Epytropos


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Status: offline 		As someone who took out a good number of student loans on the bad/deceptive advice of a university advisor, I would love to have my 45k back, along with 4 years of my life, but that is in no way the loan company's problem, nor far less the government's. They gave me a loan for tuition to study what I wanted to study, I spent the money, now I have to pay it back. Simple as that. I wouldn't mind seeing that advisor have to pay the loans back, but I don't see that happening so here we are lol.

< Message edited by Epytropos -- 10/17/2011 6:51:52 PM >

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 7:14:25 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

HOWEVER. because of class scheduling, I was not able to find a job (several of teh same course classes had classes back and forth across the day/night, not to mention the other classes that were on different days, etc.. in other words... I did not have a class schedule that any employer could say: oh yeah.. lets put her on THIS schedule) I had to drop out before I got halfway through the second quarter.


If you could go back and do it over, would you do things differently? Go to school part time while working full time? Is one only eligible for student loans if one goes full time?

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 7:20:16 PM   
Sanity


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Thats very similar to the way the medical costs bubble works

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

FR:

The problem is the unmitigated increase in tuition costs.  Most colleges and universities increase tuition because students are able to take out loans to cover them. The school gets the money, but has little responsibility to the student.

It's called the "higher education bubble", and is - in theory - no different than the housing bubble.

In other words, the government continues to guarantee student loans, the money goes to the schools, and the student is left holding the bag for eternity since the loans are no longer dis-chargeable in bankruptcy.

<snip>

Firm


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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 7:25:58 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynn

quote:

I think a better solution than outright forgiveness would be for people to carefully consider whether it makes sense financially to go to school.
quote:

it would penalize people who saved money to go to college or send their kids to college. 


translation: you're poor, shut the fuck up and bring me my fries.


Are you coming from a socialist point of view - education should be a right?


A few years ago, tuition in Florida state schools was under $4,000, now, including fees, it's still under $6,000. I think people should live within their means, whether it be buying a car, a house, or a college eduction. (I do feel for those who were deceived as to their income potential and placement rates.) If you don't want the debt of an expensive school, go to a cheaper one.

I do think education should be a right, but if you want a free expensive education, you need to earn it by working hard in high school.

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 7:56:34 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		This is what I think not forgiving student loans teaches:

1. Young graduates are expected to accept more responsibility than banks.

2. Students aren't allowed to file bankruptcy, but all banks have to do is ask for a bailout.

I wonder if Bank of America plans to forgive any private Bank of America student loans of the workers they lay off. After all, it will be their fault the ex employees can't pay them anymore.






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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 8:10:06 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I wonder if Bank of America plans to forgive any private Bank of America student loans of the workers they lay off. After all, it will be their fault the ex employees can't pay them anymore.



Huh? Your basic assumption is that employment is a for-life commitment.  It's not.  As an engineer, I've been laid off a dozen times when contracts ended, layoffs hit, etc.  I went out and found another job.


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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 8:12:58 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Will loans taken out by parents,so that their only beloved son can go to NYU,be forgiven ?
Enquiring minds want to know ( so do broke ass disabled parents who are struggling to do what is right,while still living a decent life...with gas in the car...lol)

Without researching I couldn't tell you for certain, but I'm pretty sure that any Federal Government guaranteed student loan is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy.

The person mentioned in a post above, who used a home equity loan to pay them off, and then took a strategic bankruptcy (or foreclosure) was slick, but not everyone can do something like that.

Firm

No worries Firm,I'm not declaring bankruptcy...I borrowed the money I did for my sons education....there is no way in hell I won't pay it back.As a parent it was,as I see it my responsibility to do so...my son carries less than 20 grand for his NYU education( some summer courses he wanted to take to graduate as a double major in 4 years) The rest was on me and my ex...he did his part with earned scholarships and graduating in the alllotted 4 years.The least I can do is pay the bills.

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 8:35:52 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Students aren't allowed to file bankruptcy, but all banks have to do is ask for a bailout.


The banks are paying back the money much more quickly than I anticipated:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2011/02/tarp-bailout-banks-break-even-fifth-third-bancorp.html

Programs that bailed out banks are now estimated to turn a $20-billion profit.

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 9:10:22 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

I think a better solution than outright forgiveness would be for people to carefully consider whether it makes sense financially to go to school. 
I have a choice. Minimum wage or enormous debt. That is pretty much the textbook example of a dilemma if you ask me. At this point in my life I have nothing, I can either accept that situation for life, or I can take a chance and take on an insane amount of debt with no guarantee that it will make any difference, I may end up with nothing but a huge debt.

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 9:13:36 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		Nah,you will still have Hannah

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 9:54:35 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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From: The Great Northwest, USA
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Good for you, slve. Speaking as someone who has been paying back student loan debt for 15 years, sometimes when I could ill afford it, I would never allow my kids to take out student loans.  We saved to send them to college from the time they were babies. I would work three jobs to pay their tuition before I let them rack up a bunch of loans.  I would consider my kids having to go into debt to finance their education a failure on my part, because I know what it is like to have that much debt and an uncertain future 



< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 10/17/2011 10:01:35 PM >

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 11:02:53 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		I can actually see both sides of this arguement.

On one side, it would create a 'stimulus' effect onto the economy. Most student loan payers are giving $300-900 a month towards the principle and interest on their loan(s). If we took business psychology into consideration, it would be more likely those students would place that extra money towards disposable income rather than investments. It would be a huge burden of their shoulders, and allow them to focus on helping other Americans gain jobs (as they'd be buying things up quicker than they are now).

If 100,000 such individuals, were paying $400 a month on student loans did not take the 'investment' route, but inside spent it mostly inside their state (say 80% of total), that would be $32 million put back into the economy. Your going to tell me businesses in that state wouldn't want a stake in a free $32 million 'give-away'? That the state would ignore the possibility of taxes and such being netted from those people spending their money on stuff? For purposes of this, the numbers are kept simple for the sake of the arguement. Do I have actual numbers, from a stable source? No, I'm taking an educated (and conservative) guess. The reality is more likely a higher number of dollars generated rather than lower.

The other side of the arguement is that it would undermine the loan process for the future. Do future students get their loans removed when the economy is good? Or in a future recession, what circumstances would dictate that students with loans simply have them removed? It opens many such questions. As we have observed in this nation, there is no such thing as a 'one time only' thing when money is involved. This of course assumes the loans were taken out in good faith between both parties, and the student was making a wise and accurate financial picture of future employment based on their course of study. And how many 17 & 18 year olds do you know that predict the future four years in advance with perfect accuracy?

disclaimer: I have student loans myself. Trying to pay 'em off. Would love to have my student loans killed. What could I do with an extra $400/month?

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RE: Forgive Student Loans? - 10/17/2011 11:15:42 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		That is the choice lots of younger people are faced with. I feel really bad for people your age. What makes it worse is that people my age have lost our retirement savings and are probably going to keep working beyond the age where we would have normally retired. That will make things even harder for younger people trying to start a career.
Education can no longer be counted on as the key to a better life. That's pretty scary. My son graduated from college with no debt, but is struggling to find work. How much worse would it be if he also had to worry about making payments on student loans?
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

I think a better solution than outright forgiveness would be for people to carefully consider whether it makes sense financially to go to school. 
I have a choice. Minimum wage or enormous debt. That is pretty much the textbook example of a dilemma if you ask me. At this point in my life I have nothing, I can either accept that situation for life, or I can take a chance and take on an insane amount of debt with no guarantee that it will make any difference, I may end up with nothing but a huge debt.


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)
Profile   Post #: 40
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