RE: Number of gays leaving military rises.

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RE: Number of gays leaving military rises. - 5/28/2006 1:13:19 AM

ArtCatDom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

It wasn't intended to dispute a few words selected out of your post, it was intended to point out that neither you, or the media get to define other people's life experiences for them....no matter how noble your cause.

But hey, if anyone wants to think that the media is a more credible source on the issue of DADT than Camermeyer and her cited references, far be it from me to wean them from suckling on that glass teat.

You're right. I don't get to decide how other people interpret their experiences. I don't believe her perspective tells the story of don't ask-don't tell though. She came out to her superiors before the policy. She served in an Guard desk job to whittle the last few years after winning a lawsuit on very narrow grounds.

I, while not homosexual, joined the military right after the policy was implemented. I also came to know a fair number of gay men and women while serving and got to hear their perspective of it. My opinion is far from solely formed from the media coverage of it.

Is military policy still biased against homosexuality? Absolutely but to dispute that don't ask-don't tell was an improvement for gay soldiers is madness, if not foolishness. Contrary to activist claims it shields homosexuals from witchhunts and fishing expeditions, not exposes them to such discrimination. That's nicely covered by the don't ask part.

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RE: Number of gays leaving military rises. - 5/28/2006 1:53:47 AM

Termyn8or

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I hate to do a jumpthrough like this, but this is a hot topic on my mind.

If you are a hetersexual, do you automatically rape all people of the opposite sex you may find sleeping somewhere ? Come on.

Why the F___ can't a Gay Man just up and say, yup, I am gay, and I am here to serve my country. If the other guys would be more comfortable I will shower later (or earlier, whatever). A gay soldier is just as dead if shot in the head. He took that risk when he signed on, and the powers that be want to refuse this ?

How can his service be any less valuable ? The enemies he killed are just as dead. The memories will live just as long as anyone else's.

This is bullshit, and we need NOT to put up with it. It is indeed the US that needs a regime change, not Iraq, or Iran. These Catholioc M___ got to go. God Damn It, if you don't want abortion, then don't have one. They are not mandatory. If anyone ever tries to force you to have an abortion I will fight side by side with you, to the death.

These catholics got to go, and yes, after gwb I don't even feel like captalizing it. They have the only true one religion, and they are right about everything. Where have we heard that before ?

Ok, screw the gov, back to people. I have studied psychology and can understand the homophobic's point of view. I did not say I engender that point of view.

Wanna get heavy ?, read on. The homophobic thinks that every gay Man is on the prowl for ass all the time, and if given the chance might take him in his sleep. Let me tell you right now, the Gays I know would never force themselves upon anyone, any more than the rest of us are rapists. We are not, they are not. Where is the problem ?

The problem stems from the fact that people think everyboby else is just like them. If they are really horny, like one in their early 20s, they think everybody is that horny. They have trouble controlling themselves, so they think that is normal.

How many guys out there have been so taken by the beauty of a Woman that they got tonguetied, or otherwise linguistically deficient ? Ever been to a Gay bar ? Did you think that someone was just gonna up and cut a hole in your pants and bugger you ? Come on.

Y'know, I like to take my showers alone. I am not crazy about a bunch of guys being around. For Gays, those guys are just like they are for me, not a target.

For a guy who is secure in his heterosexuality, if I take a shower with a guy, it matters not if he is gay. Why would it, I am not.

I remember a screwed up thread, in which the words apeared "me thinkst thou dost protest too much". I am 45, and time has told. Those who are the most homophobic, are the ones who are the least secure in their heterosexuality, the ones who have feelings they are trying to supress. You see, offering them an opportunity might be their undoing.

That is their insecurity, not mine nor yours.

T

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RE: Number of gays leaving military rises. - 5/28/2006 7:44:31 AM

MrThorns

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Personally, I agree with the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy. I believe it does serve as a degree of protection for gay soldiers from homophobes that serve in the military. It still disturbs me that someone would need to be protected for being themselves and that there are still people within our society that would cause someone physical harm simply because of their sexual orientation.

The idea that sexual orientation has anything to do with creating unrest amongst the troops is a ridiculous notion. The unrest is caused by bigotry, sexism, homophobia, and all other forms of intolerance which seem to remain strong within our society as a whole.

For those of you who have served in the modern military (post 1985...or so...but that's still stretching) you know there is an idea that has been taught more and more about what it is to be a soldier. That idea is professionalism. The Army has become nearly as businesslike as any other corporate institution and two civilians working within the same cubacle at some company are just about as likely to start banging each other as two soldiers in the same foxhole.

Unfortunately, not all soldiers or all civilians behave as professionals...no matter how often you drill the concept into their heads... but in the civilian world, you would remove the agressor from the equation, would you not? Why are the victimized in the military being told to keep their mouths shut?

Grumble grumble... I guess that's all I have time to rant about for now...

Hope you all have a great weekend.

~Thorns

< Message edited by MrThorns -- 5/28/2006 7:45:33 AM >

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RE: Number of gays leaving military rises. - 5/28/2006 1:32:48 PM

MstrTiger

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I think most rules within the military are a more formalised reflection of social norms, I personally don’t see a single reason why gay people should not be allowed into the military and once they get all the discriminatory bullshit out of the way then everyone will be able to happily go about their work and in real terms nothing much will have changed. The reason why it is such an issue is because it is no longer in line with popular opinion, looking a some of the arguments against changing the rule makes it look as though they think as soon as they do change it everyone will start wearing gold sequinned numbers and start calling each other girlfriend. homosexuality has been legalised in the British military for a few years and the only thing that really changed was people stopped bitching about the military being a group of backwards bigots, the American military is shooting itself in the foot for not doing the same.

Historically (mainly in Greece) homosexuality was actively encouraged and some of the greatest warriors in antiquity such as the band of Thebes where an absolute flock of birdies. It was also extremely prevalent in Japanese samurai society one of the names for it they used for it means “the beautiful way” which sort of fits in with the Greek idea that love between 2 manly men was the best of human nature. Apparently it was more likely for a Japanese daimyo to be asked why he did not have boys for lovers than why he does.

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