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Anyone else here not much care for either US political ... - 10/19/2011 6:33:18 PM   
ColeYote


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I live in Canada, but the situation down south does affect us weather we like that or not. I'm also a dual citizen, so there's a chance I may end up working or living in the US at some point in my life. And the political situation isn't looking like it'll improve any time soon. I like the way Lewis Black put it, the Democrats have no ideas, and the Republicans have bad ideas. So, you know, why bother voting for either of them? And it's not like I'm apathetic or anything, I have strong political opinions, I am a pretty staunch social democrat, but that creates another issue. I've been raised with a different idea of the political spectrum than I would assume most Americans have been, and the way I'm seeing it, the choice is a mildly conservative party, or an extremely conservative party. So, you know... not optimistic about American politics.
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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/19/2011 6:37:06 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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"mildly conservative party, or an extremely conservative party"

Pay closer attention if thats what you see. You have to break free from your Canadian view, where politics ranges from pink to bright red, to put the US in perspective. In fact US parties for the last several decades have ranged from mildy liberal to extremely liberal.

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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/19/2011 6:38:34 PM   
Lucylastic


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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/19/2011 6:41:49 PM   
ColeYote


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willbeurdaddy... There is no way in hell you just implied the Republicans are liberal. I mean what the hell do you call centre, Iran?!

< Message edited by ColeYote -- 10/19/2011 6:48:45 PM >

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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/19/2011 6:42:10 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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Most Americans fall into the middle somewhere, as either Left/Right-of-center -- and given current polling of Congress and the President, it's obvious most think both sides suck ass!!!  FYI... most "Conservatives" (not Republicans) are just as unhappy with the leadership on the Right, as much as the Left.  I'd think most Left-leaning moderates aren't too thrilled with things either.



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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/19/2011 6:46:54 PM   
tolovetolaugh


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Yep. Both sides make me sad/mad right now.
I might be joining you in Canada if it keeps going so far downhill... It's already hit the portapotties and it seems to keep rolling...


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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/19/2011 6:54:59 PM   
HannahLynn


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the only difference between the parties is what fucking corporations own them. the whole fucking thing is a sham. smoke and mirrors baby, smoke and fucking mirrors.

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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/19/2011 7:28:41 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

"mildly conservative party, or an extremely conservative party"

Pay closer attention if thats what you see. You have to break free from your Canadian view, where politics ranges from pink to bright red, to put the US in perspective. In fact US parties for the last several decades have ranged from mildy liberal to extremely liberal.



As we can see here, some other person who over-ate and over-drank far too much of the wrong things and still has not learned to stop has importuned that both Theodore Roosevelt and Dwight D. Eisenhower were both commies, as considered by today's "Fox is the most truthful media" slobbering idiots that are somehow still allowed to vote.


Oh yes ...  

"We are on our way, Lord, Oh, we are on our way, Lord ....    "


The rest of the world is not like the US.

-Waits the 2 million years it takes for that one to sink in ...... -













< Message edited by Edwynn -- 10/19/2011 7:35:01 PM >

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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/19/2011 7:39:21 PM   
Edwynn


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OK, actually only 40-100 years there, max.


Have fun and fat-gaining while it lasts.

You laid out the priorities here, so there it is.




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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/19/2011 8:02:18 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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~FR~

Both sides? They are really the same side, the politically elite looking to gain more power from the corporate and special interest groups that influence them. Yeah I am sick of them, and hope Americans start to get even more sick of them. Things are going to get a lot worse, and all I get from their rhetoric is "well the other guys is worse". I expect it to turn eventually to "let them eat cake".

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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/19/2011 8:23:33 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ColeYote

willbeurdaddy... There is no way in hell you just implied the Republicans are liberal. I mean what the hell do you call centre, Iran?!


Both Bushes were liberal and most of the GOP in Congress is liberal.

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Hear the lark
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to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to ColeYote)
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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/19/2011 8:32:03 PM   
Termyn8or


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David Crockett was liberal until Horatio Bunce set him straight.

T^T

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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/19/2011 8:37:34 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

David Crockett was liberal until Horatio Bunce set him straight.



"“ ‘No, Colonel, there’s no mistake. Though I live in the backwoods and seldom go from home, I take the papers from Washington and read very carefully all the proceedings of Congress. My papers say that last winter you voted for a bill to appropriate $20,000 to some sufferers by a fire in Georgetown. Is that true?’

" ‘Well, my friend; I may as well own up. You have got me there. But certainly nobody will complain that a great and rich country like ours should give the insignificant sum of $20,000 to relieve its suffering women and children, particularly with a full and overflowing Treasury, and I am sure, if you had been there, you would have done just as I did.'

" ‘It is not the amount, Colonel, that I complain of; it is the principle. In the first place, the government ought to have in the Treasury no more than enough for its legitimate purposes. But that has nothing with the question. The power of collecting and disbursing money at pleasure is the most dangerous power that can be entrusted to man, particularly under our system of collecting revenue by a tariff, which reaches every man in the country, no matter how poor he may be, and the poorer he is the more he pays in proportion to his means. What is worse, it presses upon him without his knowledge where the weight centers, for there is not a man in the United States who can ever guess how much he pays to the government. So you see, that while you are contributing to relieve one, you are drawing it from thousands who are even worse off than he. If you had the right to give anything, the amount was simply a matter of discretion with you, and you had as much right to give $20,000,000 as $20,000. If you have the right to give to one, you have the right to give to all; and, as the Constitution neither defines charity nor stipulates the amount, you are at liberty to give to any and everything which you may believe, or profess to believe, is a charity, and to any amount you may think proper. You will very easily perceive what a wide door this would open for fraud and corruption and favoritism, on the one hand, and for robbing the people on the other. 'No, Colonel, Congress has no right to give charity. Individual members may give as much of their own money as they please, but they have no right to touch a dollar of the public money for that purpose. If twice as many houses had been burned in this county as in Georgetown, neither you nor any other member of Congress would have thought of appropriating a dollar for our relief. There are about two hundred and forty members of Congress. If they had shown their sympathy for the sufferers by contributing each one week's pay, it would have made over $13,000. There are plenty of wealthy men in and around Washington who could have given $20,000 without depriving themselves of even a luxury of life.' "The congressmen chose to keep their own money, which, if reports be true, some of them spend not very creditably; and the people about Washington, no doubt, applauded you for relieving them from the necessity of giving by giving what was not yours to give. The people have delegated to Congress, by the Constitution, the power to do certain things. To do these, it is authorized to collect and pay moneys, and for nothing else. Everything beyond this is usurpation, and a violation of the Constitution.'

" 'So you see, Colonel, you have violated the Constitution in what I consider a vital point. It is a precedent fraught with danger to the country, for when Congress once begins to stretch its power beyond the limits of the Constitution, there is no limit to it, and no security for the people. I have no doubt you acted honestly, but that does not make it any better, except as far as you are personally concerned, and you see that I cannot vote for you.' "

T^T


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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/19/2011 8:37:56 PM   
erieangel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColeYote

willbeurdaddy... There is no way in hell you just implied the Republicans are liberal. I mean what the hell do you call centre, Iran?!


Both Bushes were liberal and most of the GOP in Congress is liberal.


Bush II was a liberal???  I'd like to know you definition of liberal.  OTOH, no I wouldn't.

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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/19/2011 8:49:42 PM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ColeYote
willbeurdaddy... There is no way in hell you just implied the Republicans are liberal. I mean what the hell do you call centre, Iran?!

I think how one classes parties in the political spectrum depends at least to some extent on one's own perspective. You being a self-described staunch social democrat may have something to do with seeing both parties as differing levels of conservative. Although its changing, political choice was worse where I'm from. There were two main parties, both politically similar (centre-right) where many people voted depending on where their or their ancestors loyalities lay during the civil war decades ago! lol There are more leftist options now but they are unsavoury to many voters. BTW Iran has some very strong leftist economic policies. They redistribute a lot of wealth by massively subsidising domestic fuel usage. I suppose most people tend to put economic values together with moral values.

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 10/19/2011 8:58:44 PM >

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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/19/2011 9:54:38 PM   
ColeYote


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
BTW Iran has some very strong leftist economic policies. They redistribute a lot of wealth by massively subsidising domestic fuel usage. I suppose most people tend to put economic values together with moral values.


Oh. Minor correction; What the hell's your definition of centre, the UAE?!

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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/19/2011 10:28:36 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

"mildly conservative party, or an extremely conservative party"

Pay closer attention if thats what you see. You have to break free from your Canadian view, where politics ranges from pink to bright red, to put the US in perspective. In fact US parties for the last several decades have ranged from mildy liberal to extremely liberal.
Bullshit...plain and simple.
But what the fuck I'm having a shitty night,so allow me to expand...if you have been disappointed by the Republican administrations since Reagan,ie Bush the elder and Bush the lesser...do not seek to express that emotion by trying to convince the rest of us that they were "mildly liberal" .Now while I will agree with you on the spending front that do not and did not .come across as "conservative"..... They were by no means mildly liberal.They were ,simply put good Republican conservatives ...in that they served big business as they ran this country into the ground.You own them,don't try to pawn them on the left.

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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/19/2011 11:08:25 PM   
Termyn8or


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"I suppose most people tend to put economic values together with moral values."

I agree, and think it's a fucking tragedy, or maybe a travesty ? So many adjectives fit it's hard to find the right one. Morals are a thing of the past.

T^T

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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/20/2011 1:23:03 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ColeYote
the Democrats have no ideas, and the Republicans have bad ideas. So, you know, why bother voting for either of them? And it's not like I'm apathetic or anything, I have strong political opinions, I am a pretty staunch social democrat, but that creates another issue.

I feel exactly the same.
I think that the USA is accelerating its decadence. Now it is visible for almost everybody, and the best they can get is a president / congress combination which stops, for 2 years, this process. That's the best possible scenario and not even this is probable anytime soon.
I describe myself as social liberal, but I guess in the USA that sounds like "marxist communist", which brings me to laugh as it is actually quite in the middle of the spectrum.
Now that I think again... in the middle of the world spectrum. For the USA, yeah, I am probably near the communists compared to the average US citizen and the average US politician... for me, most Democrats are something between right and radical right, and most Republicans are around fascism.
And so is the country going. In 1776, the USA were "extreme left", the most leftist country on earth, practically a radical leftist social experiment many people in Europe though it would not last 10 years. "Yeah, yeah, you will see, they will name a King and soon everything will go back again to normal... it's like Cromwell, just a short-term mode ending soon in a tyranny...".


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RE: Anyone else here not much care for either US politi... - 10/20/2011 1:31:40 AM   
Epytropos


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They're both made up almost entirely of theocratic authoritarians for whom the concept of freedom is as anathema as the concept of humility. Taken together they comprise the worst thing to happen to America in all of history.

< Message edited by Epytropos -- 10/20/2011 1:34:16 AM >


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