This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (Full Version)

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erieangel -> This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/20/2011 8:28:53 PM)

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/683300/bizarre%3A_woman_roughed_up%2C_arrested_for_reciting_the_constitution_during_tsa_inspection/#paragraph6



FirmhandKY -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/20/2011 9:02:45 PM)

Interesting read, erie, thank you.

Some observations:

1.  She planned this in advance.  But I'd say she didn't plan it very well.

2.  In particular, she should have researched and known exactly what her legal rights, and legal requirements are.

3.  She should have indeed made arrangements that the incident was videoed, or photographed or recorded.

4.  She did not seem to know, or understand the likely consequences of her actions, as far as legal repercussions.

5.  As a technique of protest, a better prepared individual or group could make a greater impact.  I would likely support such a group and such individuals. This is close to "civil disobedience", but she was initially not breaking any laws, as far as I could tell from her writing.

6.  Our entire society is indeed becoming too regimented, and police powers are already out of control to an extent that would not have been tolerated for long periods of our history. 

7. Many of the individuals in the TSA an other such agencies are not bad as individuals, but the effects of human psychology often place them in the situations in which they obey orders over conscience.  Reminding them from time to time about that is a good thing.

Firm



SternSkipper -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/20/2011 9:08:59 PM)

You know what I noticed? She writes like a Sub



erieangel -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/20/2011 9:49:56 PM)

Yeah, Firm, I noticed all of your points, which is why I think she brought her problems upon herself.  Good idea, poor execution.  I don't post much from alternet here because many of their articles are too left leaning even for me..but I thought this was a good one.



Aylee -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/20/2011 9:57:56 PM)

Good grief, what a damned whiner.

First off, I do not care why she was flying but thanks for the sob story about the daughter and the operation. Next time try a bank wire transfer and you will not have to worry about the TSA.

If you are going to protest something, then protest it. What is this going halfway and then stopping? Protest light? All of the begging for sympathy with none of the commitment?

I wonder what would have happened if Rosa Parks had said, "Oh, this is going to actually affect my life? Well then I will just stand up."

I am really not fond of the TSA, but this woman is an idiot.



Kirata -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/20/2011 10:38:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

I am really not fond of the TSA, but this woman is an idiot.

Agreed. That whole "reciting the Constitution" bit is nonsense. It wouldn't matter if she was singing "Zippity Do-Dah." She was creating a scene and distracting agents at a security checkpoint. If anything, she should have been removed from the area immediately.

K.



HannahLynn -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/20/2011 11:38:26 PM)

quote:


Agreed. That whole "reciting the Constitution" bit is nonsense. It wouldn't matter if she was singing "Zippity Do-Dah." She was creating a scene and distracting agents at a security checkpoint. If anything, she should have been removed from the area immediately.
bullshit. i am surprised at, and disappointed in you for saying that k, a real fucking disappointment.



Masta808 -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/20/2011 11:52:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

I am really not fond of the TSA, but this woman is an idiot.

Agreed. That whole "reciting the Constitution" bit is nonsense. It wouldn't matter if she was singing "Zippity Do-Dah." She was creating a scene and distracting agents at a security checkpoint. If anything, she should have been removed from the area immediately.

K.


So reciting the Constitution about her legal rights is stupid because it was creating a scene? Why do you hate the US Constitution?



CyrusKell -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/21/2011 12:36:15 AM)

Before I started reading the article my first thought was "She's going to cite the one about illegal search and seizure"
Here's the thing, it is implied that the TSA staff is asking for permission to search each person that comes in, if you just plop your stuff down and go through the metal detector, you're essentially granting said permission.
If someone is being belligerent and refuses, that gives the staff probable cause that you may or may not be hiding something and is therefore a legal search.

As far as I'm concerned, she's trying to stir up s**t in a misguided attempt to protest the increased security



Epytropos -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/21/2011 12:46:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CyrusKell

Before I started reading the article my first thought was "She's going to cite the one about illegal search and seizure"
Here's the thing, it is implied that the TSA staff is asking for permission to search each person that comes in, if you just plop your stuff down and go through the metal detector, you're essentially granting said permission.
If someone is being belligerent and refuses, that gives the staff probable cause that you may or may not be hiding something and is therefore a legal search.

As far as I'm concerned, she's trying to stir up s**t in a misguided attempt to protest the increased security


So what you're saying is, if I cooperate then I give permission, and if I don't then they don't need permission? Seems legit.



Masta808 -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/21/2011 12:46:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CyrusKell
Before I started reading the article my first thought was "She's going to cite the one about illegal search and seizure"
Here's the thing, it is implied that the TSA staff is asking for permission to search each person that comes in, if you just plop your stuff down and go through the metal detector, you're essentially granting said permission.
If someone is being belligerent and refuses, that gives the staff probable cause that you may or may not be hiding something and is therefore a legal search.

As far as I'm concerned, she's trying to stir up s**t in a misguided attempt to protest the increased security


So Reciting the Constitution is stirring shit up? Why do you hate the US Constitution?

TSA should have let the women recite the Constitution out of respect for the constitution whether or not she choose give up the rights given to her by the 4th amendment is another story. It is an easy choice either give up that right or dont ride the plane. Simple. If dont want to TSA to search you then to DONT BUY an Airplane ticket, otherwise you must have something to hide and probably a terrorist. It doesnt matter if you have to fly because of your job, for vacation, or because its the only way to get to your destination. Too bad so sad. Thats the price of Freedom.



Kirata -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/21/2011 12:56:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynn

bullshit. i am surprised at, and disappointed in you for saying that k, a real fucking disappointment.

I'm sorry you're disappointed, but I'm not sure what you think is bullshit. My post reflects neither a political position on the Constitutional issues nor support for the TSA. Things are what they are, however, at least for the time being, and it is simply a fact that when you are tasked with a critical security mission you cannot allow diversions to develop. Nature of the beast. Nobody's a mind-reader. The place for this woman to have raised her protest is on the doorstep of her congressman's office, not the security area of an airport.

K.



CyrusKell -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/21/2011 1:05:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Epytropos
So what you're saying is, if I cooperate then I give permission, and if I don't then they don't need permission? Seems legit.
It is legit. It's called "Probable Cause" at that point
Say you're out in public and start causing a scene, if police are called your actions will give them probable cause to search you on the possibility that you may be on something(alcohol, drugs or just downright batsh*t crazy)
quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808
So Reciting the Constitution is stirring shit up? Why do you hate the US Constitution?

TSA should have let the women recite the Constitution out of respect for the constitution whether or not she choose give up the rights given to her by the 4th amendment is another story. It is an easy choice either give up that right or dont ride the plane. Simple. If dont want to TSA to search you then to DONT BUY an Airplane ticket, otherwise you must have something to hide and probably a terrorist. It doesnt matter if you have to fly because of your job, for vacation, or because its the only way to get to your destination. Too bad so sad. Thats the price of Freedom.
If she had recited it in a calm manner then I wouldn't care. She was shouting it, causing trouble and continued to cause trouble. If I were a TSA agent or even some random schmuck I'd be wondering what she was on to start yelling the 4th Amendment out of nowhere and would not be very comfortable knowing she was in the same building as me, let alone possibly the same plane

A person doesn't need explosives or weapons to wreak havoc on a plane, just the dedication to cause trouble


By the way, I'll thank you to not make assumptions about me or my stance towards the Constitution.




Christ... I keep trying to type probably instead of probable



HannahLynn -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/21/2011 7:38:35 AM)

quote:

If I were a TSA agent or even some random schmuck I'd be wondering what she was on to start yelling the 4th Amendment out of nowhere and would not be very comfortable knowing she was in the same building as me, let alone possibly the same plane
what the fuck? are you fucking serious? you really wouldn't put two and two together? person being searched shouts amendment preventing unreasonable searches - gee willikers i just don't get it. [8|]

mother mary's unused cunt! i tell you man, i've heard of some really fucking slow people, but that just about tops the list.



xssve -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/21/2011 8:14:04 AM)

I duno, it sounds a lot like something a gun toting teabagger would do, and we all know how volatile they can be.

They all relaxed when they realized she was a liberal pacifist.



MasterG2kTR -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/21/2011 9:26:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

I am really not fond of the TSA, but this woman is an idiot.

Agreed. That whole "reciting the Constitution" bit is nonsense. It wouldn't matter if she was singing "Zippity Do-Dah." She was creating a scene and distracting agents at a security checkpoint. If anything, she should have been removed from the area immediately.

K.


No you have it wrong. She was not creating a "scene". The TSA idiots were the ones creating the scene. She did not refuse to be screened. She refused to be put thru the full body scanner and asked for a hand search instead. But the TSA Gestapo wanted her to do it their way only and that's when Guy with a Tie stepped in and blew it all out of proportion.



kalikshama -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/21/2011 10:04:41 AM)

I couldn't find an actual news story for this, just her blog. Perhaps there is a different name to use than T. P. Alexanders?



slvemike4u -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/21/2011 1:12:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynn

quote:


Agreed. That whole "reciting the Constitution" bit is nonsense. It wouldn't matter if she was singing "Zippity Do-Dah." She was creating a scene and distracting agents at a security checkpoint. If anything, she should have been removed from the area immediately.
bullshit. i am surprised at, and disappointed in you for saying that k, a real fucking disappointment.
This....I think the lady in questiion not only has some balls....but she is right.We have like sheep allowed our freedoms to be withered away ....to the point where we have come to accept,even expect,that our persons will be violated at some point as we go about what has become for many of us daily rituals....all in the name of safety.
In reality the "safety" we are receiving for this surrender of the inviolate nature of our persons is specious at best.
Who really feels that those security checkpoints in the airport are keeping us safe....all they are doing is satisfying our need for the illusion of safety.Fuck folks you are marching towards an aluminum tube piloted by jack whoknows...and praying that you will land in safety at the airport of your destination.Talk about an idiotic way to travel...shit I get nervous getting into taxis,but I willingly walk into an airplane having no idea what sort of day the pilot is having or what he drank with his lunch.....lol
The drive up I95 is shit assed long,but nobody searches me...and I pilot my own car [:D]



Kirata -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/21/2011 1:38:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterG2kTR

No you have it wrong. She was not creating a "scene". The TSA idiots were the ones creating the scene.

You need to read it again.

I'm speaking loud and clear so those around me can hear... He wants me to shut up. I continue reading the Fourth Amendment. He asks me to go with him to some undisclosed location to “talk”. He indicates with his hand somewhere back toward ticketing, away from being screened. I decline. He tries to gently guide me with a hand on my elbow, like we're on a date, pushing me back up the line. I stand firm.

K.



slvemike4u -> RE: This woman kind of brought her troubles upon herself (10/21/2011 1:42:25 PM)

"speaking" "decline" "stand firm" since when have these become ingredients to making a scene ?
particularly when used in expression of ones rights ?
I agree with the sentiment that she might have planned this better,but I can not say that I disagree with her at all.As a matter of fact I respect what she tried to do.



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