RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality!

RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (Full Version)

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TreasureKY -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 1:19:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Sort of like gun ownsership is a right, yet those who own guns feel they have to fight for the right to keep that right? Not sure where I see the correlation here, Taz. The law provides that I have the right to keep and bear arms. It doesn't guarantee that I will have them. sarcasm/ The government ought to provide everyone with guns. No one should have to do without! /sarcasm Fighting to keep that right isn't even remotely related to someone demanding that healthcare and higher education is a right and the government ought to provide them.

tazzygirl -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 1:27:50 PM)
The difference is easy to see. You may not die from the lack of owning a gun. You will die from lack of health care.

Lucylastic -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 1:30:50 PM)
And without access to realistic further education cost, you can kiss goodbye to any living wage

tazzygirl -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 1:33:05 PM)
I was thinking that too, Lucy. We can educate our youth to extremely high standards.. but how many can afford to continue that education?

TreasureKY -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 1:45:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl The difference is easy to see. You may not die from the lack of owning a gun. You will die from lack of health care. You've entirely missed the point and are muddying the waters. Healthcare and education is not a "right" in that they should be provided to you. Your right is the freedom to obtain them if you are able to. Gun ownership is not a "right" in that they should be provided to you. Your right is the freedom to obtain them if you are able to. Will you die without a gun? Only if you are in a situation where one would save your life. Will you die without healthcare? Only if you are in a situation where healthcare would save your life.

tazzygirl -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 1:49:45 PM)
Why should having access to health care be a right... if you can afford it? quote: Will you die without a gun? Only if you are in a situation where one would save your life. Not everyone will be in that position in their lifetime. quote: Will you die without healthcare? Only if you are in a situation where healthcare would save your life. Everyone will be in that position at some time in their lifetime.

TreasureKY -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 1:56:54 PM)
[8\|] Again... provided for healthcare and higher education is not a right. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Will you die without healthcare? Only if you are in a situation where healthcare would save your life. Everyone will be in that position at some time in their lifetime. With your crazy logic, then absolutely every necessity for life should be provided by the government because we all need them.

tazzygirl -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 2:01:29 PM)
I dont need the government to provide me food, I can grow my own. I dont need the government to provide me clothes, I can find them cheap enough. I dont need the government to provide me health care. I need them to make it affordable. Taking half a paycheck to go see a PCP medical clinic isnt affordable.

slvemike4u -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 2:54:38 PM)
"Healthcare and education is not a "right" in that they should be provided to you.Your right is the freedom to obtain them if you are able to" Really? And if you aren't ? Can we as Americans at the least demand that the cost of such things remain within the means of middle class America....while providing assistance to those that subsist somewhere below that level?

TreasureKY -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 3:11:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u "Healthcare and education is not a "right" in that they should be provided to you.Your right is the freedom to obtain them if you are able to" Really? And if you aren't ? Can we as Americans at the least demand that the cost of such things remain within the means of middle class America....while providing assistance to those that subsist somewhere below that level? We already do. Don't you think that Medicare and Medicaid and CHIPs are programs designed to provide assistance? As far as healthcare remaining within the means of middle class America, I have no problem... in theory... with the Government exercising some regulatory authority over pricing. So long as the regulations apply equally across all facets of the healthcare industry. Thing is, I personally think that competition is a better way to keep prices down. It's just such a broad and complicated industry, encouraging competition is a difficult prospect.

tazzygirl -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 3:11:51 PM)
Last figure I saw on sick time costs were about 30 billion a year to businesses.

tazzygirl -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 3:21:40 PM)
quote: We already do. Don't you think that Medicare and Medicaid and CHIPs are programs designed to provide assistance? Have you ever been on those programs? Chips I know little about. Medicare is not my age group... and it IS a right. Medicaid is something you have to jump through hoops to get... and its only available if you are pregnant, over 65, blind or disabled. Leaves a whole lot of people without. quote: As far as healthcare remaining within the means of middle class America, I have no problem... in theory... with the Government exercising some regulatory authority over pricing. So long as the regulations apply equally across all facets of the healthcare industry I agree. Surprised? quote: Thing is, I personally think that competition is a better way to keep prices down. It's just such a broad and complicated industry, encouraging competition is a difficult prospect. Health care HMO's and the like have driven out all competition... allowed and encouraged by the government. Im my city, you have AGH or UPMC... there are no other choices. Now, UPMC wont accept Highmark insurace because Highmark entered into an agreement with AGH. UMPC wanted to own AGH.. and it didnt work out that way. Highmark bought into AGH to keep them alive. Now UPMC wont accept Highmark. Where is the competition in that?

rulemylife -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 3:36:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arienos Your birthright entitles you to citizenship in this nation, not financial support and assistance in handling your resources. Expecting the government to lavish you with luxuries, educational assistance and medicines or medical treatments is common but common does answer the call to self-reliance. Then what are we paying taxes for? To bail out large corporations?

searching4mysir -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 3:50:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: Arienos Your birthright entitles you to citizenship in this nation, not financial support and assistance in handling your resources. Expecting the government to lavish you with luxuries, educational assistance and medicines or medical treatments is common but common does answer the call to self-reliance. Then what are we paying taxes for? To bail out large corporations? That depends. I'm of the belief that if it isn't stated as the role of the Feds then it belongs to the states. This means the Feds should ONLY be dealing with the military (common defense) and only those other things specifically spelled out in the Constitution as its job (I'm tired and I don't feel like going through the Constitution to name them). The rest it is up to the States to either regulate or not according to their State Constitutions. I believe in subsidiarity (the lowest form of government does what is needed (versus wanted)). As far as the feds go....no it is not their job to bail out large corporations. Never was. The Founding Fathers would be rolling over in their graves to see what has become of the nation that they founded.

SternSkipper -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 3:51:19 PM)
quote: It goes directly to the reasons behind the OWS movement and the stupidity of many conservatives. Well... I figured out my blocking issue. He kept floating to the top cause corrupted or stuck cookies. One flush and much like any other turd, the sprinkler queen of the OC won't be getting erections every time someone opens a thread he's been rooting around in. I just pulled this one up and he stays hid. Now he can return to nipping at my posts without having 'unmanly thoughts'.

rulemylife -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 4:07:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY [8\|] Again... provided for healthcare and higher education is not a right. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Will you die without healthcare? Only if you are in a situation where healthcare would save your life. Everyone will be in that position at some time in their lifetime. With your crazy logic, then absolutely every necessity for life should be provided by the government because we all need them. First of all this whole debate about about rights versus privileges is ridiculous and always has been. A right it just not something listed in the Constitution. Yet conservatives maintain that it is, while simultaneously declaring that the government grants us privileges while also saying the government should stay out of our lives. Sort of makes my head spin.

rulemylife -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 4:29:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u "Healthcare and education is not a "right" in that they should be provided to you.Your right is the freedom to obtain them if you are able to" Really? And if you aren't ? Can we as Americans at the least demand that the cost of such things remain within the means of middle class America....while providing assistance to those that subsist somewhere below that level? We already do. Don't you think that Medicare and Medicaid and CHIPs are programs designed to provide assistance? As far as healthcare remaining within the means of middle class America, I have no problem... in theory... with the Government exercising some regulatory authority over pricing. So long as the regulations apply equally across all facets of the healthcare industry. Thing is, I personally think that competition is a better way to keep prices down. It's just such a broad and complicated industry, encouraging competition is a difficult prospect. How has that competition thing worked out so far? I pay my own healthcare and I've mentioned this on health care threads before, I have Anthem and I have had my plan for five years and the premiums have quadrupled in that time period. I have no medical conditions and have had only one minor claim for an accident in that time period. And yes I have shopped around, but you do realize that there are state regulatory commissions that approve rate increases. So when one company receives approval the other companies follow along with rate increases. There is no competition. Would you rather have your tax dollars spent on pointless wars and corporate welfare or something that would directly benefit you?

DomYngBlk -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 5:25:32 PM)
I prefer pointless wars..and please please let this corporations bring their overseas profits back to the US without any additional taxation that will definitely fix the whole economy and create countless jobs.

HannahLynn -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 5:26:45 PM)
quote: As an anarchist, shouldn't you be calling them out, and opposing them, anyway? why? what does my political outlook have to do with it? you don't see me supporting them do you? all i'm doing is calling you out on your fucking bullshit. i've already stated i support their methods, i support many of their aims just not the solutions they propose to end the abuses, and in the end i have this fantasy that the movement will grow and the establishment's reactuion will become increasingly violent and that it will grow into an arab spring type thing and bring down the fucking government. you know, a morts les aristos and all that bullshit.

subrob1967 -> RE: OWS protesters attacked by water cannons - one near fatality! (10/23/2011 5:32:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Sort of like gun ownsership is a right, yet those who own guns feel they have to fight for the right to keep that right? Gus don't just give themselves away, now do they? You have to BUY them, just like an education, or medical care.

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