RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (Full Version)

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TreasureKY -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/23/2011 3:17:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I thought you said you hadn't seen tax cuts create any more jobs?  I though maybe you had some other kind of incentive in mind.


I havent.... nor have I seen any directly designed to link cuts to employment. Have you?


Not sure I understand your question.  Have I seen any tax incentives designed to be withdrawn if employment cuts are made?  No. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

No. I don't expect the stability to come from the Government. I wish the Government would worry more about doing the job it is supposed to do and let the economy take care of itself.


The country has been waiting on businesses to take care of themselves... instead they are sending jobs overseas and sitting on stockpiles of cash, drinking champagne while people complain.


lol... Yeah, Firm and I regularly get together with all the other business owners we know to sit around on piles of cash and drink champagne.  [;)]



tazzygirl -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/23/2011 3:26:59 PM)

quote:

Not sure I understand your question.  Have I seen any tax incentives designed to be withdrawn if employment cuts are made?  No. 


Thats not what I asked.

Have you seen any incentives, in the form of tax cuts, made for hiring more people?



tazzygirl -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/23/2011 3:29:08 PM)

quote:

lol... Yeah, Firm and I regularly get together with all the other business owners we know to sit around on piles of cash and drink champagne.


I never said you did. Are you denying it happened at Wall Street?

Last week, a protester posted a video on YouTube of onlookers on a restaurant balcony sipping drinks and taking pictures as the group marched about five minutes away from Zuccotti Park, where many of the protests have taken place.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/09/wall-street-protesters-meet-champagne-sippers/



Owner59 -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/23/2011 4:18:38 PM)

The source is the historical record.


Is that left leaning too?


Send in the clowns,....where are the clowns,.....don`t bother,they`re here......[:D]



Iamsemisweet -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/23/2011 5:03:44 PM)

As you know, I was responding to your comment that an organization like the CCC, that was created by the Feds to employ people, could not succeed. It obviously could. People are obviously willing to travel and endure some hardship to get jobs.
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I think I have an answer to your question. There actually is a job boom in this country right now in, of all places, North Dakota. It is oil field work and also, of course, the lower paying service jobs that support it. I know, it isn't the CCC (too bad, because a CCC type thing was what they should have created with the first stimulus bill), bul oil field work is dirty, disgusting, back breaking and exhausting. In short, the kind of work "americans won't do." People are traveling there from across the country, and basically living in tent city's ( or the back of their cars) because there is no housing.


And good for them!  I applaud anyone who is willing to do what they need to do (within the law) in order to provide for themselves.  I'm guessing you won't see these people standing around in some "Occupy ______" demonstration... unless it is their days off.  [;)]




Owner59 -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/23/2011 6:11:08 PM)

If,there were jobs to be taken.

Treasurek`s ok with a government stimulus program, as long as it`s in the form of a miltary build-up,like under Reagan.



TreasureKY -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/23/2011 7:02:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

As you know, I was responding to your comment that an organization like the CCC, that was created by the Feds to employ people, could not succeed. It obviously could. People are obviously willing to travel and endure some hardship to get jobs.



You appear to be assuming that I claimed something like CCC would not succeed.  That is not what I said.  I questioned just how many people would be willing to do the work offered.

If, indeed, there are that many people who are willing to travel and endure hardship to get jobs, then why do we keep hearing people complain that by causing illegal immigrants to leave, we are creating problems with all the jobs left behind that Americans are not willing to do?

It seems that some want it both ways.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Treasurek`s ok with a government stimulus program, as long as it`s in the form of a miltary build-up,like under Reagan.


Kindly do not even try to speak for me.   I don't need a puppet.  Thanks.



Real0ne -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/23/2011 7:57:03 PM)

fr

I am not sure that most people who went to school and got a degree want to flip burgers for a living.



SternSkipper -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/23/2011 11:40:27 PM)

quote:

fr
I am not sure that most people who went to school and got a degree want to flip burgers for a living.


If you went to school for 100k in loans ... even if you get that job at mikey D's you will live with mom and dad or default on the loan ($1100.00/month)
Gross from $8/hr is 320 a week x4.3 =1376 and that's gross pay!
If they have no fucking job for you period (which is really the case) ... OWS here you come. Either that or you lock yourself in listening to fox 24/7 till your head fucking bursts or you go up on some BDSM site calling everybody lefties and communist and swearing Goldman Sachs was at your kid's christening



Iamsemisweet -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/24/2011 12:17:51 AM)

Hmm. I quoted what you said. After reading that you "doubt many would be interested in a new CCC"' I somehow interpreted that to mean that you did not think the government could create jobs by creating something like the CCC. Oh, and then you posted picture about how difficult the conditions to be.
The problem with crop work is that it is temporary, plus the farmers are more interested in screaming that they need immigrant slave labor to consider other solutions. The difference is that infrastructure projects, which is what the CCC did, take longer to build than the 5 days you spend harvesting tomatoes. Like my oil field example, those jobs are relatively lomg term, so it is worth traveling to them. And come to think of it, there are a lot of unemployed and increasingly desperate tradesman. So, you are kind of comparing apples to oranges.
We would have been far better off if the initial bail out money had been spent on infrastructure, not bail outs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: .

I wonder how many folks these days would be willing to travel across the country and live in tent cities earning $10 an hour for back-breaking labor building roads and damns?  From the hysterics about illegal immigrants leaving the country and leaving all these crops to rot in the fields, with no Americans willing to do the work, I doubt many would be interested in a new CCC.


[image]local://upfiles/416509/6E05EA839F2C4141A74A531B20CBF1C2.jpg[/image]



samboct -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/24/2011 6:53:50 AM)

Treasure does have a point about changing work ethics. A friend of mine has a business which needs labor which he's willing to pay decent money for and do some job training- but he's had lots of turnover- people just don't show up after a few weeks- need lots of supervision or raw materials get wasted etc. Some of the older guys have a better work ethic, but these folks can be hard to find.

Talking to these guys- there's a lot of bitterness that the labor compact has been broken for decades. It used to be that you were loyal to a company, and you had a job for life. Now you can do a good job, but if corporate profits might take a short term hit- you can be out of work in a New York minute- and it's not based on your performance. This kind of seemingly arbitrary behavior has repercussions, and we're seeing them.

Small businesses have the problem that if their work flow is reduced, they can have people standing around drinking coffee with no work for them- and that destroys both businesses and employee morale.

However, I don't view the stimulus programs as wasted money- I see lots of good stuff that was purchased with stimulus money involving new laboratory facilities in the sciences and people doing research. I do agree with Krugman that the stimulus package was really too small, and like any crisis program is going to have flaws- i.e. there will be more waste than if there had been time to construct the program carefully. However, that's not the nature of a crisis, and that's what Obama inherited. If we'd take a more measured approach which we can now afford to do- and if we'd quit bickering-we'd come up with a much better stimulus package. We do need government contracts to build stuff to prime the economic pump such as electric mail/package delivery vehicles, electric schoolbuses, electric taxis- wind farms, solar installations etc.

Sam



Iamsemisweet -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/24/2011 7:08:02 AM)

Apparently you didn't read my earlier post,Sam. Anecdotal evidence about your friend aside, treasurer stated people would not be willing to travel long distances and live in sub prime conditions for work. I pointed out the example of the North Dakota oil boom, where people are coming from long distances, living in terrible conditions because there is no housing, and working at dirty, uncomfortable jobs. Sounds like a work ethic to me. Rough necking is about the worst job there is.



Owner59 -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/24/2011 7:21:07 AM)

Yup Treasure`s correct on that one.

I can`t get an American to work labor jobs.Even the few I know who`re out of work.At most they last a day doing roofing or digging a ditch.When I say "cmon",I get"well you`re used to it". Bullshit! lol Hard work is fucking hard! lol

Even before the bush reccession when work was plentiful,I couldn`t get a white person or another American to work doing construction.

When I was a kid,most people cut their own lawns,raised their own kids and didn`t mind hard work.My scoutmaster used to say he didnt like people who were "afraid of hard work" and that`s awlays stuck with me.


My comment about Treasure being ok with government stimulus plans as long as they`re for the Pentagon, should have included most conservatives/republicans/tea-baggers.

Sorry to single you out,Treasure.



tazzygirl -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/24/2011 11:12:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Yup Treasure`s correct on that one.

I can`t get an American to work labor jobs.Even the few I know who`re out of work.At most they last a day doing roofing or digging a ditch.When I say "cmon",I get"well you`re used to it". Bullshit! lol Hard work is fucking hard! lol

Even before the bush reccession when work was plentiful,I couldn`t get a white person or another American to work doing construction.

When I was a kid,most people cut their own lawns,raised their own kids and didn`t mind hard work.My scoutmaster used to say he didnt like people who were "afraid of hard work" and that`s awlays stuck with me.


My comment about Treasure being ok with government stimulus plans as long as they`re for the Pentagon, should have included most conservatives/republicans/tea-baggers.

Sorry to single you out,Treasure.


Its not my experience.... but mine is born from a family of construction workers, military men, and work a holics like myself.



cuckoldmepls -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/24/2011 11:14:43 AM)

This is the only protest movement will people expect other people to donate everything for them so they can camp outside and smoke pot. Oh wait, maybe that's what the 60's was about.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/24/2011 11:14:59 AM)

that doesn't ring true for my experience at all. i've done all kinds of wacky jobs, really difficult jobs, physical jobs, dirty jobs.

i think, while there is a sect of maybe the middle class who thinks "menial" labor jobs are below them, i don't find that to be true AT ALL for the majority of people i know, and i think this tendency to apply a conclusion based on a small chunk of the population to the ENTIRE population is part of our policy problem.



SternSkipper -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/24/2011 11:20:36 AM)

quote:

The mistake the protestors are making though is supporting left wing politicians


On What Planet Are they doing that. You're either ill-informed or actually trying to distort facts. I am very comfortable in saying that there has not been even one political endorsement made on the part of the Occupy/OWS.
   So wherever you're getting your information from, it's a lie and I feel bad for ya.




cuckoldmepls -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/24/2011 11:20:45 AM)

Anyone else think it's a coincidence that 37% support the ows protests, about the same amount who support Obama. You aren't fooling anyone. It's obvious it's an attempt to distract from a failed Obama administration and place the blame on someone else. Blaming someone else is Obama's trademark.



mnottertail -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/24/2011 11:22:02 AM)

And the stats whiz who couldn't even get a job sharpening pencils at rasmussen lays it out for us.



Lucylastic -> RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support (10/24/2011 11:22:58 AM)

the only obvious thing about anything is that you are so badly informed its beyond irresponsible



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