Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (Full Version)

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Owner59 -> Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/23/2011 6:29:21 PM)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/23/lindsay-graham-criticizes_n_1027098.html



In a talk show appearance just days after the death of Libyan dictator Moammar Gaddafi, Sen. Lindsay Graham (R-S.C.) accused President Barack Obama of being insufficiently aggressive in Libya.

"If you go to war, go to win -- don't lead from behind," Graham said on Fox News Sunday.

Graham claimed that the U.S. could have removed Gaddafi from power earlier and that the war has made insufficient progress over the past "six months." Other Republican critics of the war, particularly Tea Party freshmen in the House, have taken a different line, arguing that Obama's decision to intervene was illegal, and that Gaddafi's death alone does not ensure the region's safety or stability. Presidential candidate Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.), an early opponent of the Libyan war, said as much on Fox.

"We knew who the devil was," Bachmann said. "We don't know who the next one will be."




DarkSteven -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/23/2011 7:42:28 PM)

Graham is nuts.  Obama's entire strategy was to NOT invade.  Just like GHW Bush, he formed a coalition of supporters that did not directly intervene, but propped up the rebels and supported them.

Perhaps Graham didn't learn anything from the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, in which we DID lead.  Although I have to admit that we didn't go in to win them - we simply assumed that we would and refused to brook any dissenting views.




Owner59 -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 6:59:40 AM)

Yup,no US (or NATO) casualties and about a billion spent to get one real actual terrrorist vs. 4400 dead GIs(plus tens of thousands of serious injuries),and a trillion dollars spent to get a would-be terrorist.

Not much a comparison,is there?

I wonder how many GIs killed would have been worth getting gadhafi a few months sooner?

Republican = hypocrite.




Politesub53 -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 10:20:36 AM)

Nothing comes as much of a shock re Obama. He is dammed if he does and dammed if he doesnt.




mnottertail -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 10:21:35 AM)

DAMNATION!!!!!




Owner59 -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 2:55:08 PM)

I wonder if the neo-cons are getting this.......kinda kills all their fake outrage about the presidents use of force in Libya.


But shameless is after all,shameless.




popeye1250 -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 3:04:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/23/lindsay-graham-criticizes_n_1027098.html



In a talk show appearance just days after the death of Libyan dictator Moammar Gaddafi, Sen. Lindsay Graham (R-S.C.) accused President Barack Obama of being insufficiently aggressive in Libya.

"If you go to war, go to win -- don't lead from behind," Graham said on Fox News Sunday.

Graham claimed that the U.S. could have removed Gaddafi from power earlier and that the war has made insufficient progress over the past "six months." Other Republican critics of the war, particularly Tea Party freshmen in the House, have taken a different line, arguing that Obama's decision to intervene was illegal, and that Gaddafi's death alone does not ensure the region's safety or stability. Presidential candidate Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.), an early opponent of the Libyan war, said as much on Fox.

"We knew who the devil was," Bachmann said. "We don't know who the next one will be."



Owner, we shouldn't have done anything about Libya. That was purely a European problem. We had no dog in that fight.
And don't worry about Lindsey Graham, we're going to get rid of him in 2014.
Everytime I read some of the tripe coming out of him I wonder if he has some sort of brain disease.
"He ain't one of us!"




mnottertail -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 3:07:06 PM)

I say we had pan am 103 in that fight for one thing.




DomKen -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 3:17:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Owner, we shouldn't have done anything about Libya. That was purely a European problem. We had no dog in that fight.
And don't worry about Lindsey Graham, we're going to get rid of him in 2014.
Everytime I read some of the tripe coming out of him I wonder if he has some sort of brain disease.
"He ain't one of us!"


Pops, let's say there was a dictator who had offered money and weapons to a US street gang, if the street gang would use the money and weapons to commit acts of terror inside the US. What would you want done to that foreign leader? Would you consider it strictly a European problem?





Owner59 -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 3:19:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/23/lindsay-graham-criticizes_n_1027098.html



In a talk show appearance just days after the death of Libyan dictator Moammar Gaddafi, Sen. Lindsay Graham (R-S.C.) accused President Barack Obama of being insufficiently aggressive in Libya.

"If you go to war, go to win -- don't lead from behind," Graham said on Fox News Sunday.

Graham claimed that the U.S. could have removed Gaddafi from power earlier and that the war has made insufficient progress over the past "six months." Other Republican critics of the war, particularly Tea Party freshmen in the House, have taken a different line, arguing that Obama's decision to intervene was illegal, and that Gaddafi's death alone does not ensure the region's safety or stability. Presidential candidate Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.), an early opponent of the Libyan war, said as much on Fox.

"We knew who the devil was," Bachmann said. "We don't know who the next one will be."



Owner, we shouldn't have done anything about Libya. That was purely a European problem. We had no dog in that fight.
And don't worry about Lindsey Graham, we're going to get rid of him in 2014.
Everytime I read some of the tripe coming out of him I wonder if he has some sort of brain disease.
"He ain't one of us!"


We`re part of NATO pops.....


Heard of it?


Plus I don`t fucking care how many republicans forgave him for killing our people.

I never did.




tj444 -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 3:49:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I say we had pan am 103 in that fight for one thing.

and that was in 1986 and the US and NATO did squat. Bush finally got him to pay several billion in compensation and Bush lifted the sanctions agains Lybia in return. Its been done and over for a long time. He was in power for 42 years and no one did anything (of any consequence) but all of a sudden, its sooooo imperative to get him... Imo, after everyone left him alone to his part of the world for 42 fucking years, no one had any business doing or helping the rebels in any way now. Jmo

I do think that whoever is the one in control there in the future, might very well be worse. After all, there is 200 billion sitting in accounts around the world that belong to Lybia, that amount of money in a few hands, well,.. Lybia could just shut down all the oil wells for the next 300 years and live off that 200 billion...

or,.. maybe some part of that 200 billion will be used by some nutbar leader in the same way OBL used his money.. funding as much terrorism as possible..




hlen5 -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 3:59:47 PM)

I was glad we helped tangentially in Libya because Khaddafi said "blood would run in the streets". The popluance was begging for help. Khaddafi said "Let Libya burn".

I find a willing international coalition preventing genocide a whole lot easier to swallow than manufacturing a reason to topple a dicator (WMDs, anyone?).

As long as they don't/didn't run counter to our interests, we tolerate/d the lot of ME dictators.

The hypocrisy is sky-high in the title of this thread.




tazzygirl -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 4:11:20 PM)

Thats just it. We were asked.




tj444 -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 4:12:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

I was glad we helped tangentially in Libya because Khaddafi said "blood would run in the streets". The popluance was begging for help. Khaddafi said "Let Libya burn".

I find a willing international coalition preventing genocide a whole lot easier to swallow than manufacturing a reason to topple a dicator (WMDs, anyone?).

As long as they don't/didn't run counter to our interests, we tolerate/d the lot of ME dictators.

The hypocrisy is sky-high in the title of this thread.

but he did it for 42 years and he has been doing this all along. Given his age, did anyone really think he was so much worse now? He has had blood on his hands all this time but where was this coalition that turned a blind eye to it all these decades? Isnt that blood on their hands too then?

I guess we will see what happens now..






tazzygirl -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 4:15:58 PM)

These are countries that never dreamed of the freedom from the tyrants they had in charge.... the sweep across the ME gave many courage to take those steps.




hlen5 -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 4:17:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

I was glad we helped tangentially in Libya because Khaddafi said "blood would run in the streets". The popluance was begging for help. Khaddafi said "Let Libya burn".

I find a willing international coalition preventing genocide a whole lot easier to swallow than manufacturing a reason to topple a dicator (WMDs, anyone?).

As long as they don't/didn't run counter to our interests, we tolerate/d the lot of ME dictators.
The hypocrisy is sky-high in the title of this thread.

but he did it for 42 years and he has been doing this all along. Given his age, did anyone really think he was so much worse now? He has had blood on his hands all this time but where was this coalition that turned a blind eye to it all these decades? Isnt that blood on their hands too then?

I guess we will see what happens now..





The quotes I gave were recent regarding the demonstrations of Libyans marching for their rights. The oppostion was calling out for help in order not to get slaughtered for demanding their rights.




tj444 -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 4:29:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

The quotes I gave were recent regarding the demonstrations of Libyans marching for their rights. The oppostion was calling out for help in order not to get slaughtered for demanding their rights.


we will see what kind of rights they have now under sharia law and see if they are all that different than before..





Hippiekinkster -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 6:47:56 PM)

About that Lockerbie thing...

"The identification of Megrahi
In summary (and for my own amusement, cribbing from Rupert Murdoch's "SKy News" channel as the main source) -

- This guy's conviction is now regarded as completely unsafe. The key witness who ID-ed him in court had previously given a quite different to uselessly vague description, etc. Plus the witness merely linked the guy to a t-shirt like that believed to have been packed with the bomb - not the most definite piece of evidence:

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?sto…§ioncode=26
Central to al-Megrahi's conviction in 2001 was the testimony of Tony Gauci, a shopkeeper in Malta. Gauci told a court sitting in the Netherlands that al-Megrahi, who worked in Malta for the Libyan state airline, "resembled a lot" a customer who had supposedly bought a T-shirt on December 7 1988, a fortnight before the bombing.

Among the wreckage of Pan Am 103 were remnants of such a T-shirt that had been in the suitcase containing the bomb.

This tiny piece of evidence mattered because:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics
The Crown called 227 witnesses to make its case, but it was the evidence of one shopkeeper that secured Megrahi's conviction.

Tony Gauci, who ran Mary's House, a scruffy haberdashery in a busy street in the Maltese port of Sliema, sold six items of clothing and an umbrella to a Libyan customer near the end of 1988.

Charred fragments of the same clothes - a baby's blue romper suit, men's trousers, shirts and cardigans - were found in the wreckage and traced by their labels to his shop.

Gauci first saw a photograph of Megrahi in 1991 - three years after the bombing and nine months before the Libyans were charged - and over the years made no fewer than 19 statements about the appearance of the purchaser.

His descriptions varied and he was only ever able to identify Megrahi as "resembling" the man in his shop.

*By the time he gave evidence at the Scottish court complex on an old military base outside Utrecht, he was being asked to identify a single customer who had visited his gloomy store 12 years earlier.&

Gauci pointed at Megrahi and told the judges: "This is the man I say resembles a lot the man who came into the shop."

But he also agreed under cross-examination that over the preceding years he had identified several different people as "the Libyan""
(courtesy Mouse at FL)





SternSkipper -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 6:54:45 PM)

quote:


Graham claimed that the U.S. could have removed Gaddafi from power earlier
I think he means during EITHER of the BUSH ADMINISTRATIONS ... Nother thing fucked about Dubyah... did a shitty job cleaning up after his old man... Maybe that's the strategy, Niceguy Jeb gets in and plays janitor in the bush trifecta... Ick




SternSkipper -> RE: Latest GOP-Libya gripe...you should have done it sooner?!?!?! (10/24/2011 6:58:49 PM)

He Shouldn't direct ANY of his criticism at anyone but his own party members and Howard Sprague look-alike Dennis Kucinich ... another fucking "gift" from Ohio.





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