RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message


SternSkipper -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 1:35:11 PM)

quote:

Back on the subject of police violence
http://current.com/community/93513164_occupy-oakland-police-brutality-gets-serious-scott-olsen-now-sedated-skull-fracture-and-swelling-of-the-brain.htm


Thanks Ken ... Corrcta must be busy<grin>





Aylee -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 1:36:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

My other thought is that they may be trying to crack down because Halloween is in a few days. Lots of children will be out and they may be worried about predators. I know there is all sorts of rules for folks on the sex predators list on Halloween, and so they may want to be sure that there is no crossover.


You're other thought would be ... just that... your other thought.

No one in the government or collective police departments has said a word even approaching that. But since these placs are pretty much away from areas kids trick or treat and THEY ARE SURROUNDED BY POLICE 24/7... Ummm this is a pretty 'interesting' theory [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]



Halloween was the only thing I can think of that is coming up soon. I suppose that it could be like the department stores and they are getting people out in order to be ready for Christmas. [8|]




slvemike4u -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 1:37:18 PM)

Errant...are there really that many Americans?
And they are all so horribly misinformed ?......we are in worse trouble than I had thought.[&o]




searching4mysir -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 2:11:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

It's about time.



So you are in favor of the cops cracking down on free speech and freedom of assembly?
Is there any other part of the constitution of my country you would like to wipe your ass on?



Are they public parks (owned and operated by the city) or corporately-owned parks (like Zuccotti Park in NYC)? One is public property and the other is not. With the latter, it becomes trespassing. There is no freedom of assembly on private property if the owner doesn't want you there.

I believe oakland city hall and surrounding turf to be public property.

I don't doubt that, but Oakland isn't the only area having trouble, now is it? So is this a local problem?




As to free speech, I don't see that being infringed on at all. Frankly the people being arrested aren't being arrested so much for what they are saying as what they are doing.

Peaceably assemblying to petition the government for the redress of thier grievences.

How is camping out in a privately-owned park or making a nuisance of yourself in a business environment petitioning the government for redress? You want to petition the government? Go to Washington, DC where they got involved in things that didn't concern them (like the real estate market and banking).






Freedom of assembly and freedom of speech are not absolute. One cannot say whatever they want whenever and wherever they want without repercussions.


Obviously the thugs will come and arrest you

Have you heard of slander and libel? Both are limits on free speech, as is yelling "Fire" in a movie theater. There are private property laws as well. You don't have the right to camp out on my front lawn and yell obscenities unless I allow you to (which limits both your freedom of speech and assembly according to your definitions.





Those who are pissed off about a lack of jobs have essentially kissed any job opportunities good-bye with any major corporation who finds out that they were involved.

All those who wish to avail themselves of the protections of the u.s. constitution will now be denied employment for doing so.
Is there some more of the constitution of my country you would like to wipe your ass on?



Have you read the Constitution you claim I'm wiping my ass on? It says CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW... It says nothing about a company choosing not to hire people who are showing poor judgement as well as poor logic skills. The Constitution limits what the GOVERNMENT can do, not what privately (or publicly) owned businesses can do. Being a dumbass isn't legally protected the way that gender and religion are.





errantgeek -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 2:19:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Errant...are there really that many Americans?
And they are all so horribly misinformed ?......we are in worse trouble than I had thought.[&o]


No, you need to do the math and educate yourself. It's not that there are more than 100% of Americans. It's a qualitative analysis.

You see, there are two groups of Americans: the 47% of unpatriotic moochers, and 53% Real Americans. The 47% don't count because they have 0% of patriotic. It doesn't matter if descent is the highest form of patriotic, because anything multiplied by 0% is still 0%. The 53% Real Americans are all so American they each have 374% of patriotic, meaning they're almost four times as patriotism as they have to be to be considered Real American. And that 53% knows who to blame for the economy and the decline of America, so their opinion is in total 198% of Americans (since 53% times 374% is 198%). That 46% doesn't matter because they are 0% patriotism and anything times zero is still zero, so even added to the 198% of Americans, it's still 198% of Americans.

And that's why the 47% -- I mean, the 0% for what they're worth -- don't pay taxes and march in the streets for more government handouts and Ponzi schemes. They hate America.




searching4mysir -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 2:19:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"have essentially kissed any job opportunities good-bye with any major corporation who finds out that they were involved. " = predator corportaion/political persecution.

I see you`re all about freedom of thought and freedom from political persecution......[8|]

I don't see it as political persecution. I see this as weeding out the dumbasses and avoiding a costly hiring mistake.



Maybe someday we`ll have McCarthy style hearings, to ferret out those radical Americans exercising their freedoms.

Feel free to exercise your freedoms. Actions have consequences in the private sector. If you don't like it, get a government job.


Or you more creative "freedom lovers" will have a site to "out" OWS protestors, maybe fuck them up that way,get them fired,etc.

not a bad idea, actually. Set up the site, charge a membership fee. You might be onto something as an income source. How very entrepreneurial of you. Now put up the cash (called an investment) and take the risk and you too might actually make something of yourself using your own ingenuity.


This is a great example of republicans today.Bend over,get dry fucked by corporate America,pay THEM for the favor and ask if they want a tax break.



"oh please Mr.bankster,forgive us ,you stole our money and ruined our economy and then got billions of our money with bailouts and now you want to balance the budget on the poor and middle class but we still think you guys are awesome and will defend you against anyone with the gall to question you.

How did a bank STEAL your money? Was it in the stock market (which is not insured and has risk) or was it in an FDIC-insured account (and they didn't pay you when the bank failed)? Or could it be because you weren't responsible enough with your money that you placed it at risk and either borrowed more than you could pay back (either student loan or mortgage) or thought a 401(k) was a savings account? Is it the BANK's fault that you are not financially literate?





tazzygirl -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 3:17:02 PM)

quote:

How did a bank STEAL your money? Was it in the stock market (which is not insured and has risk) or was it in an FDIC-insured account (and they didn't pay you when the bank failed)? Or could it be because you weren't responsible enough with your money that you placed it at risk and either borrowed more than you could pay back (either student loan or mortgage) or thought a 401(k) was a savings account? Is it the BANK's fault that you are not financially literate?


Yup.

In 1982, Congress passed the Alternative Mortgage Transactions Parity Act (AMTPA), which allowed non-federally chartered housing creditors to write adjustable-rate mortgages. Among the new mortgage loan types created and gaining in popularity in the early 1980s were adjustable-rate, option adjustable-rate, balloon-payment and interest-only mortgages. These new loan types are credited with replacing the long standing practice of banks making conventional fixed-rate, amortizing mortgages. Among the criticisms of banking industry deregulation that contributed to the savings and loan crisis was that Congress failed to enact regulations that would have prevented exploitations by these loan types. Subsequent widespread abuses of predatory lending occurred with the use of adjustable-rate mortgages.[41][119] Approximately 90% of subprime mortgages issued in 2006 were adjustable-rate mortgages.[2]

quote:

In recent years, banks have moved to a new model where they sell on the mortgages to the bond markets. This has made it much easier to fund additional borrowing,
But it has also led to abuses as banks no longer have the incentive to check carefully the mortgages they issue.

In the past five years, the private sector has dramatically expanded its role in the mortgage bond market, which had previously been dominated by government-sponsored agencies like Freddie Mac.
They specialised in new types of mortgages, such as sub-prime lending to borrowers with poor credit histories and weak documentation of income, who were shunned by the "prime" lenders like Freddie Mac.

They also included "jumbo" mortgages for properties over Freddie Mac's $417,000 (£202,000) mortgage limit.
The business proved extremely profitable for the banks, which earned a fee for each mortgage they sold on. They urged mortgage brokers to sell more and more of these mortgages.
Now the mortgage bond market is worth $6 trillion, and is the largest single part of the whole $27 trillion US bond market, bigger even than Treasury bonds.
............

They told them that they could get cash by refinancing their homes, but often neglected to properly explain that the new sub-prime mortgages would "reset" after 2 years at double the interest rate.
The result was a wave of repossessions that blighted neighbourhoods across the city and the inner suburbs.

By late 2007, one in ten homes in Cleveland had been repossessed and Deutsche Bank Trust, acting on behalf of bondholders, was the largest property owner in the city.




http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7073131.stm

It goes on to say how people were taken advantage.

quote:

But these mortgages had a much higher rate of repossession than conventional mortgages because they were adjustable rate mortgages (ARMs).
The payments were fixed for two years, and then became both higher and dependent on the level of Fed intereset rates, which also rose substantially.
Consequently, a wave of repossessions is sweeping America as many of these mortgages reset to higher rates in the next two years.
And it is likely that as many as two million families will be evicted from their homes as their cases make their way through the courts.


Banks werent telling, mortgage companies werent either... and people were being screwed.

quote:

Prior to the passage of AMTPA, banks were barred from making anything but the conventional fixed-rate, amortizing mortgages. AMPTA lifted those restrictions, giving birth to all the new and exotic mortgages that have so many borrowers in hot water today. For instance:

Adjustable-rate mortgages, in which the interest rate becomes floating after a number of years.
Balloon-payment mortgages, which have an outsized payment when the loan comes due.
Interest-only mortgages, which require only repayment of interest (not principal too) during the first few years of the loan, only to hit borrowers with crushing monthly-payment resets once the new monthly payment kicks in.
And worst of all, the option-ARM, which allows borrowers to underpay by as much as they want during the first few years. The awful upshot is the unpaid monthly interest gets tacked onto the size of the loan. So your $300,000 mortgage can turn into a $350,000 loan in a hurry, destroying any equity you have in your home.
"One of the problems was that there were no substitute regulations to make sure these new mortgages didn't turn out to be exploitative," says McCoy.


http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/30/real_estate/congress_subprime.fortune/

How many people were told, and fully understood, the above? From the reports, not many.




searching4mysir -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 3:54:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


Banks werent telling, mortgage companies werent either... and people were being screwed.



What about the contracts they signed? Do you mean to say that it didn't say the rate was adjustable, or that if an interest only loan that the principal was due at the end? Where were their lawyers at the closing?

quote:


How many people were told, and fully understood, the above? From the reports, not many.


And whose fault is it that they didn't understand what they were signing? It was THEIR fault. Where was their lawyer? Sounds like a legal malpractice suit to me if anything. And if they didn't have a lawyer then not getting one was their own fault as well.




SternSkipper -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 3:58:21 PM)

quote:

Back on the subject of police violence
http://current.com/community/93513164_occupy-oakland-police-brutality-gets-serious-scott-olsen-now-sedated-skull-fracture-and-swelling-of-the-brain.htm


http://occupywallst.org/article/ows-response-government-violence-occupyoakland/

Disclamer- I have ongoing permission to reproduce any and all OWS official Communications here's what's going on concerning Scott Olson - An Iraq Veteran of The USMC who survived going into harm's way but isn't fairing so well with his homecoming. Thanks for Serving Scott Sorry about the skull fracture. It seems they couldn't tell the difference between you and the dirty stinking hippies.in their 'tent city'

#ows Response To Government Violence At #occupyoakland | Solidarity March At 9PM From Liberty Square
Posted Oct. 26, 2011, 3:47 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
[image]local://upfiles/18637/40808533B8244D3DBDA558F8B35F86F1.jpg[/image]
Today at Occupy Wall Street we are looking across the country to the city of Oakland, where last night our fellow Americans were subjected to violence at the hands of their own government for exercising the constitutional freedoms their government is sworn to protect. Last night police forces violently raided Occupy Oakland, arresting 85 people and brutalizing many peaceful participants, using excessive physical force, tear gas, and dangerous projectile rounds.

Peaceful Protest is An American Birthright, Not a Crime


Among those injured is Scott Olson, a Marine Corps veteran who served in Iraq. Olsen is in the hospital with a fractured skull.

“Scott is in stable but serious condition as the neurologists decide whether to take him into surgery or the ICU,” said Joshua Shepherd, a friend of Olsen’s. “Oakland Police Department fired a tear gas canister at his head, fracturing his skull.”

Video of the incident with Scott Olsen: http://tinyurl.com/3vqlsv3

It is unconscionable that American government officials would sanction the use of such extreme force against peaceful citizens.










SternSkipper -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 4:01:40 PM)

Continued See Above Message for source URL or article

[image]local://upfiles/18637/352EF7597F774533A4CB97443EB657AD.jpg[/image]
Occupy Oakland has been a public forum, set up on public land, concerned with critical public issues about the nation’s financial crisis, consolidation of wealth and power, and the ability of citizens to meaningfully participate in the democratic process. This brutality carried out on the orders of city government, sends a chilling message to those who want to engage in civic processes to work for social change.

Over a month ago, we went to the doorstep of Wall Street to say "enough!" That message has resonated across the country and around the world. Occupy Wall Street continues to build, and a national movement of peaceful occupations and civic engagement has sprung up in every corner.






SternSkipper -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 4:04:04 PM)

Final section - Source URL in First Post of this series

Public officials must listen to the grievances of this popular movement. It is absolutely unacceptable to attempt to dissuade civic engagement through the use of brutality, repression and retaliation against movement participants. This is America. All Americans have the freedom to peacefully protest our government. That right defines who we are as a country and a people, and when it is denied, all of America is the poorer for it.

The Mayor of Oakland — and mayors and city governments across the country — should get on the right side of history and honor all Americans' freedom to peacefully assemble and to civically engage.

We call on all concerned people to send Oakland Mayor Quan a message that the actions she sanctioned are unconscionable. We ask supporters to please sign this petition to Mayor Quan and to forward it:

http://www.change.org/petitions/demand-mayor-jean-quan-stop-the-police-repression-of-occupy-oakland

Supporters can also call Mayor Quan at +1 (510) 238-3141 to register disapproval.

Tonight in Manhattan, we will hold a march in solidarity with Occupy Oakland (9:00pm. Details to be announced.)

We will continue to build a movement to empower the 99% and to hold Wall Street and government accountable.






[image]local://upfiles/18637/A9986A90BF174F9ABF8760E350066947.jpg[/image]




SternSkipper -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 4:15:42 PM)

quote:

What about the contracts they signed? Do you mean to say that it didn't say the rate was adjustable, or that if an interest only loan that the principal was due at the end? Where were their lawyers at the closing?


Ah... another dipthong blissfully unaware of all the cases wherein lenders,brokers and real estate attorneys were convicted, settled out of court, or actually went through and resulted in a criminal conviction... This isn't even TOUCHING the tens of thousands of civil cases brought. And genius, a slip and fall attorney WILL NOT take one of these on contingency... those who could afford the tort cases had to pay legal fees and most have seen nothing so far.
   I am sorry your only sources of information are not in anyway credible.
Google mortgage fraud and conviction and you'll perhaps have a better understanding what these contractual and lawyer interactions were actually like.
   Or maybe you just want to sound like you have a bitch to air.
Whatever, there was substantial fraud visited upon consumers.
Proven Fact.






Lucylastic -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 4:23:21 PM)

must be a lawyer wanting more money from idiots or herman cain and part of the problem, not the solution.insert sneer......
Of course anyone who is poor or unemployed or in debt, its your own fault nothing to do with the fat cats brokering playing with peoples livlihoods, fuckem if they aint smart enough not to fall for bullshit gobbledeygook
insert sarcastic bitch eye roll




JstAnotherSub -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 4:26:16 PM)

I think Mayor Reid showed a lot of patience here in Atlanta.

Sebastian, of The Regular Guys, was there last night.  I am going to try to find the podcast of his, I figure that may be the most honest report available.




searching4mysir -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 4:40:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

must be a lawyer wanting more money from idiots or herman cain and part of the problem, not the solution.insert sneer......
Of course anyone who is poor or unemployed or in debt, its your own fault nothing to do with the fat cats brokering playing with peoples livlihoods, fuckem if they aint smart enough not to fall for bullshit gobbledeygook
insert sarcastic bitch eye roll


The fact that I am unemployed IS my own fault if you want to know the truth. I didn't make myself indispensible to my former employer and then I took time to travel (trips I had already planned) before I rebooted my job search. Any debt I have is my own fault as well.

You can use the sarcastic bitch eye roll all you like Lucy. It reflects poorly on you, not me. It just makes you look like a child trying to pretend she is an adult.

Do I deny there was fraud? No. Not at all, and in THOSE cases they had every right to sue for fraud. Were all subprime mortgages fraudulent? Nope. They were stupid, but not fraudulent.

Part of being an adult is assuming responsibility for your part in things. If I signed a contract and didn't read and understand it prior to signing, that is MY fault...no one else's. It has nothing to do with me being rich or poor. It has everything to do with me taking responsibility for my actions. When that act passed in 1982, I was still in high school, and even THEN I knew better than to sign something without reading and understanding it first. I don't ask the vendor to explain the contract to me, I read it myself, and if I don't understand it then I have someone who reads/understands legalese explain it to me. If I'm buying a house and I don't understand the mortgage documents I'm expected to sign, I don't sign until the lawyer I PAID explains it to me (you see if YOU pay for the lawyer, he has a fiduciary responsibility to do what is in YOUR best interests) so that I know exactly what is and is not in that document. I don't expect the bank's lawyers to explain it to me when their client is the BANK.




Lucylastic -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 4:54:11 PM)

Being indispensable is a flight of fantasy in the business world
anyone that tells you different is pulling your plonker..sounds like you need some self esteem injections
Actually it doesnt reflect badly on me at all, only in your eyes,because ... I really dont give a flying fart about anything you get upset about, your lack of foresight is your issue.
plus you havent shown that you could respond to a grownup well thought out repsonse. Your argument is so full of holes its not funny.
The last time I needed a lawyer was to help get my immigration pushed thru.. that was 20 yrs ago, and I would like it if I didnt see another one for another 20 years.
You are brainwashed into thinking they can do no wrong..and looking down on others who dont like being treated like shit.
Im very sorry for you




tazzygirl -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 5:00:03 PM)

quote:

What about the contracts they signed? Do you mean to say that it didn't say the rate was adjustable, or that if an interest only loan that the principal was due at the end? Where were their lawyers at the closing?


You think everyone has a lawyer at signing???? rofl

quote:

And whose fault is it that they didn't understand what they were signing? It was THEIR fault. Where was their lawyer? Sounds like a legal malpractice suit to me if anything. And if they didn't have a lawyer then not getting one was their own fault as well.


Again, why do you insist a lawyer is required? These people were too trusting and got screwed. According to you, they shouldnt have listened to the lenders who were supposed to tell them about their loans. They should have read the fine print, except on many mortgage papers the ballon payments werent specifically written.

Do some homework.. gesh!




thompsonx -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 5:21:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

It's about time.



So you are in favor of the cops cracking down on free speech and freedom of assembly?
Is there any other part of the constitution of my country you would like to wipe your ass on?



Are they public parks (owned and operated by the city) or corporately-owned parks (like Zuccotti Park in NYC)? One is public property and the other is not. With the latter, it becomes trespassing. There is no freedom of assembly on private property if the owner doesn't want you there.

I believe oakland city hall and surrounding turf to be public property.

I don't doubt that, but Oakland isn't the only area having trouble, now is it? So is this a local problem?

quote:

We are discussing oakland.
But:
You would prefer to toss some shit into the game to try and dilute your ignorance.





As to free speech, I don't see that being infringed on at all. Frankly the people being arrested aren't being arrested so much for what they are saying as what they are doing.

Peaceably assemblying to petition the government for the redress of thier grievences.

How is camping out in a privately-owned park or making a nuisance of yourself in a business environment petitioning the government for redress?

quote:

Once again oakland city hall is public property.



You want to petition the government? Go to Washington, DC where they got involved in things that didn't concern them (like the real estate market and banking).


quote:

I am unaware of where the constitution says the only place I can exercise my constitutional rights is in washington. Perhaps you could point it out for us?







Freedom of assembly and freedom of speech are not absolute. One cannot say whatever they want whenever and wherever they want without repercussions.


Obviously the thugs will come and arrest you

Have you heard of slander and libel? Both are limits on free speech, as is yelling "Fire" in a movie theater. There are private property laws as well.


quote:

Once again oakland city hall is public property.


You don't have the right to camp out on my front lawn and yell obscenities unless I allow you to (which limits both your freedom of speech and assembly according to your definitions.


quote:

No one has camped out on your front lawn.






Those who are pissed off about a lack of jobs have essentially kissed any job opportunities good-bye with any major corporation who finds out that they were involved.

All those who wish to avail themselves of the protections of the u.s. constitution will now be denied employment for doing so.
Is there some more of the constitution of my country you would like to wipe your ass on?



Have you read the Constitution you claim I'm wiping my ass on? It says CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW... It says nothing about a company choosing not to hire people who are showing poor judgement as well as poor logic skills.


quote:

The law is pretty clear that you cannot fire someone or refuse to hire someone because of their political position.


The Constitution limits what the GOVERNMENT can do, not what privately (or publicly) owned businesses can do.

quote:

Perhaps now would be a good time for you to get a copy of the constitution and read it, because it is quite clear to the most casual observer that you are not very acquainted with that document and all that elides from it.


Being a dumbass isn't legally protected the way that gender and religion are.

quote:

Once again you have managed to get both feet in your mouth at the same time.









servantforuse -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 5:49:15 PM)

I have closed on several different houses. Never without having my own attorney there. Buyer beware if you won't spend an extra $200 for a lawyer when buying a home.




thompsonx -> RE: "Occupy" Arrest All Over ... (10/26/2011 6:03:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I have closed on several different houses. Never without having my own attorney there. Buyer beware if you won't spend an extra $200 for a lawyer when buying a home.



So anyone not as clever as you deserves to get fucked?




Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.0625