RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (Full Version)

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Owner59 -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 8:04:23 AM)

Well tazzy,you`re one of the fairest of them all.....[:D]

I`ll admit dems could have been stronger and not so easily walked over.

This is the reason many are unhappy with President Obama.Not b/c they don`t like liberals(the con reason) but because he wasn`t hard enough with cons,that he was to nice and to willing to compromise with them.

I would agree with that sentiment.



tazzygirl -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 8:06:34 AM)

Like I have said before... he lacked the backbone I had hoped to see. And I dont see it among any of those running for office this time.



errantgeek -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 8:46:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Owner, to be fair, Democrats in Congress may have been able to avoid much of the bubble ... and chose not too.


Except this goes back further than the last ten years. Try thirty, when the Reagan administration pushed to bailout S&L's and set the precedent the financial sector can take on no limit of risk and get bailed out, while refusing to investigate and prosecute those responsible for the (illegal) activities that set the stage for the S&L crisis. Why do I seem to be the only person nowadays who remembers Neil Bush and Silverado S&L? And I was fucking seven when that happened! There's no excuse for the baby boomers to have forgotten that shit.

Not to mention the Reagan-era horrendously-failed "starve the beast" mentality (let's cut revenues while increasing military spending, that'll work) and push for deregulation (which culminated in the repeal of Glass-Steagal under the Clinton administration, setting the stage for the bank mergers and financial activity that precipitated the mortgage crisis and 2008 crisis).



tazzygirl -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 8:58:20 AM)

And I was training to go into banking when the S&L banks went under. Yes, I remember that well.

However, what good does it to to point fingers when we cant accept our own responsibility in the mess?

Thats why I have little to no respect for most of the posters here. Everyone wants to point... no one wants to own. And fault for that, for the blame game, lies with both parties. Divide and conquer. They have perfected it.. and we are the lab mice.

I never stated the Dems were the problem behind all the mess.... I said they had the opportunity to maybe minimize the problem... and they didnt.



Toucan -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 9:00:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

You folks do know, that most of these Urban Paradises are run by Liberal Democrats right... (Well... Liberal Democrat turned Republican in the case of Bloomberg)


I am sure there is a thread here about Mayor Jean Quan ordering the water hoses, rubber bullets and wood shampoo treatments right?

http://Well... Liberal Democrat turned Republican in the case of Bloomberg


Because Democrats are the Bankers political Party.  Seriously, most Democrat politicians are either former lawyers or former bankers.



tazzygirl -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 9:02:05 AM)

And here, just in time to prove my point. Dont tell me what other parties are doing.. why not point out the hypocricy of your own?



errantgeek -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 9:10:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
And I was training to go into banking when the S&L banks went under. Yes, I remember that well.

However, what good does it to to point fingers when we cant accept our own responsibility in the mess?

Thats why I have little to no respect for most of the posters here. Everyone wants to point... no one wants to own. And fault for that, for the blame game, lies with both parties. Divide and conquer. They have perfected it.. and we are the lab mice.

I never stated the Dems were the problem behind all the mess.... I said they had the opportunity to maybe minimize the problem... and they didnt.


See, the issue with the "finger pointing" is not necessarily to point out which party is the "good guy" and which party is the "bad guy". It's to illustrate what went wrong and why, and how to correct the mistakes of the past. It is true to say Democrats were negligent if not outright complicit (I lean towards the latter) in this whole mess, but it's a false equivalence to simply say "both sides did it". One party bears an immense majority of the credit for it. Call me partisan for it, but it's the truth.

Refusing to investigate and prosecute illegal activities in the '80s was wrong, it was wrong in 2008, and it's still wrong now. Bailing out individuals and corporations who acted unethically in the '80s was wrong, it was wrong in 2008, and it's still wrong now. Actively rewarding the people that refused to investigate and prosecute, and actively rewarded, unethical and illegal activities in the '80s was wrong, it was wrong in 2008, and it's still wrong now. And if you ask me, yes that includes Barack Obama in the final analysis.



tazzygirl -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 9:23:56 AM)

But it was both sides who were responsible. I refuse to accept that the Republicans made this whole mess while the Democrats sat and wrung their hands. I also refuse to accept that the Democrats laughed while knowing the bubble was about to burst and did nothing... while the Republicans pushed for them to act.

They are both complicit in the results... equally so.



Arpig -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 9:25:39 AM)

quote:

Which party was/is trying to reform/stregthen financial/bank rules and regs....?
That would be neither. I didn't notice any such reform of any value during the Democrat's super majority, did anybody else?

Sorry to kill your theory with some facts.



Arpig -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 9:39:50 AM)

quote:

Except this goes back further than the last ten years. Try thirty
Keep going back further.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_II0H7X5O4&feature=related






errantgeek -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 9:44:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

But it was both sides who were responsible. I refuse to accept that the Republicans made this whole mess while the Democrats sat and wrung their hands. I also refuse to accept that the Democrats laughed while knowing the bubble was about to burst and did nothing... while the Republicans pushed for them to act.


Well, going along with that, in 2005-06 the Republicans were pushing for investigation and regulation of Fannie and Freddie...two organizations that had very little if anything to do with the mortgage crisis or the resulting 2008 crisis. Fannie and Freddie were, quite frankly, convenient scapegoats to obfuscate the real source of the crises -- the financial sector itself. After all, it wasn't Fannie and Freddie that were offering subprime mortgages, nor adjustable rate mortgages, nor securitizing those mortgages, bundling those mortgages and selling them as derivatives...the list goes on. And, the only people sticking to the Fannie/Freddie line (including economists on both sides of the fence) are the conservative punditry and politicians.

And again, it can be traced straight through to the Reagan years, with the passage of AMTPA under a Republican Senate, Democrat House, and Republican President. Skip forward seventeen years to the GLB act when Democrats voted heavily in favor of it under a Republican Senate and Republican House, and it was signed by a Democrat President -- which was moot anyway, given the passage vote in Congress was veto-proof.

Like I said, both sides carry accountability for the mess, but leaving it at that is simply insufficient.



tazzygirl -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 9:52:29 AM)

At what point do we stop pointing fingers at one side or the other, and start pointing them at Congress as a whole?

Do you enjoy being used as a lab mouse in their maze of lies?

They do enjoy watching all the "we the people" spin around trying to figure out what is doing what.

Its time it stopped.. and it can only stop with us.



rulemylife -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 9:52:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

we want our elected to do what is right for the country.

And what might that be, precisely?

I ask because that's what everybody wants, but we don't seem able to agree on what it is.

In fact, about the only thing that everybody does seem to agree on is that the "other guy" is wrong.

So tell me, this is helping how?

K.



Only if you tell me how the teabaggers helped anything.



Arpig -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 10:13:17 AM)

quote:

Only if you tell me how the teabaggers helped anything.
They started the ball rolling this time round is all. They expressed their take on the general anger of the governed at the actions of the governors. The OWS is just an extension of that, it is just one more attempt by the people to take back control of their government from those who have stolen it from them.

I'm not saying that wealth and money hasn't always had a heavy influence in the corridors of power, of course it has...it has since the days of Nebuchadnezzar and beyond, but it has never been so firmly entrenched and so openly and blatantly integrated into the whole system. What you have in the U.S., and what is spreading elsewhere as well, is a plutocracy disguised as a democratic republic. And the disguise is getting thinner with each passing year.



errantgeek -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 10:16:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

At what point do we stop pointing fingers at one side or the other, and start pointing them at Congress as a whole?


I already do. With that said, I also see an obligation to remember the mistakes of the past and not repeat them. Not repeating the mistakes of the past is precluded by not rewarding the people who made them, and not putting people who advocate the same failed, bullshit policies of the past in power.

The real kicker of this is our current political system and governmental structure forces the two-party system. As long as we have what we do, people are forced to vote tactically for one of two groups of corporatist assholes, one is covertly corporatist and the other overtly so. That's why the protests and movements are being framed as a left/right issue, because people see no other way to frame it as a whole, and because the people on top of the extant parties don't want people thinking of it any other way.

Personally, I would love to see a new constitutional convention and us move to a PR-based parliamentary system with strict campaign finance and governmental transparency regulation. I'm also realistic enough to see that not happening spare a complete governmental collapse and/or civil war.



tazzygirl -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 10:23:56 AM)

I personally believe if things dont change.... this will get worse.

They arent going away, as many hope and pray they will. They arent going to stop. So, now what? Call out the national guard? Begin curfews? Proclaim martial law?

That will really show em. [8|]



tazzygirl -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 10:29:11 AM)

Please.... oh please... do NOT document that, k?

Pretty please?



Hillwilliam -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 10:32:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Please.... oh please... do NOT document that, k?

Pretty please?

[8D]



FirmhandKY -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 10:38:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Only if you tell me how the teabaggers helped anything.
They started the ball rolling this time round is all. They expressed their take on the general anger of the governed at the actions of the governors. The OWS is just an extension of that, it is just one more attempt by the people to take back control of their government from those who have stolen it from them.

I'm not saying that wealth and money hasn't always had a heavy influence in the corridors of power, of course it has...it has since the days of Nebuchadnezzar and beyond, but it has never been so firmly entrenched and so openly and blatantly integrated into the whole system. What you have in the U.S., and what is spreading elsewhere as well, is a plutocracy disguised as a democratic republic. And the disguise is getting thinner with each passing year.

Gawd damnit, Arpig ... I thought all lefties were suppose to be brain dead! Quit conflicting with my biases, damnit!  [8D]

Firm



DomKen -> RE: Why Are Elected Democrats Politicians Shooting and Beating OWSers??? (10/28/2011 10:46:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

FR....

Lets get this thread back on track...

The fact is, where the cities where these protesters are meeting the most resistance are controlled by (American) liberal philosophies

Yes, lets get the thread back on topic.

You're just wrong. You seem to think all Democratic politicians are liberals. That is simply wrong. Most of these cities are governed by centrist and/or consrvative Democrats.

BTW Democratic is the adjective form of Democrat.



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