RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (Full Version)

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Edwynn -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 9:22:18 AM)


Addendum:

For those who still visit the library, this book:

http://www.tyrannyofoil.org/section.php?id=44

explains well the anti-regulatory environment that came into being in the 80's, and though focused on oil companies still lays out the setting for the Gram-Leach-Bliley Act ("Banking Modernization Act") and the Commodities Futures Trading Modernization Act.

And this book:

http://13bankers.com/

explains how the financial industry became our new sacred cow.

Anything by Janet Tavakoli or Micheal Lewis on this subject would provide good reading also. 

For those who want to know. I won't force anybody.








Iamsemisweet -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 9:25:49 AM)

Thank you Tazzy. So the banks are being sued for predatory practices and violations of TILA. But even the sources you cite refer to a lack of diligence on the part of the borrowers. Suspicious? Didn't understand? So why would you sign the contract? I still don,t believe lack of due diligence on the borrowers' part should erase their mortgages. I do think it should make them eligible for modifications, and that is what is happening.




tazzygirl -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 9:37:06 AM)

I didnt say the mortgages should be erased. I do believe the lenders should have been forced to refinance those loans. Many of the links I posted talked about deceptive pratices. But how many people have already lost their homes?

The point is, this should never have been allowed to happen. And Wall Street benefited from the deception and even ignorance of those the loan companies were deceiving.




Iamsemisweet -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 10:03:24 AM)

We agree there, then. And actually, the point of many of the lawsuits and some posters is that these mortgages should be erased. So, sorry I attributed this to you.
I am certainly not an apologist for the banks. If nothing else, I believe they need to practice traditional underwriting instead of relying jblindly on credit scores. Regulations are being passed to do just that. But I don't believe they were the single cause of this entire mess either. I think borrowers do have a responsibility of due diligence, and I think home builders who saturated the markt and governments who let them deserve a lot of the blame too. But I guess it is just not PC on these boards to say that people have responsibility for their own actions. Nevertheless, I just don't believe that every borrower was a helpless victim of the evil banks.




tazzygirl -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 10:23:38 AM)

I saw stories from people who admitted to having bought homes before who said they got "tricked". Im finding that hard to believe. However, many who got caught up in this mess were first time home buyers.

When I bought my first car, I took my dad with me. I had no clue about contracts and what they contained. So, as the salesman tried to double talk me and work around my obvious ignorance, my dad finally got pissed and said "Stop the bullshit talk and tell her flat out you are ripping her off". We went elsewhere.

Its not hard to spot someone who has no in depth knowledge of what is being told them.




Edwynn -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 11:18:48 AM)



~FR~

No, not every borrower is completely innocent, but the issue of irresponsibility starts with the lender, the very core of all and anything finance being that the lender makes the decision to lend or not, at what price.

There are consumer laws, product safety laws, drug  laws, labeling laws, etc. for a reason. Somehow the financial industry felt they should be excluded from such obstacles and largely succeeded.

Are people in the lower income tier to be excluded from buying a house? If they are in the lower income tier, should we expect them to have the intellectual capacity to deal with mortgage brokers armed with contracts written by highly paid lawyers for express purpose of obfuscation of salient details? Should we expect every homeowner of whatever intellectual capacity or income level or stage in life to suffer from the irresponsibility of the financial industry? Not to mention wrecking of the entire economy in the process?

Indeed, some borrowers were well aware of what they were doing, they couldn't believe what lenders were giving, and took that ball and ran with it. Certainly, some people bought houses with every intent of not paying, from the start. Others over reached, based on interest rates ridiculously low for being so far into an economic expansion (did Grandma or Grandad vote for Greenspan?). But some would claim that every poor person and every retiree of whatever income level who never participated in any of this mess are to be made to suffer from the irresponsibility of others. It is a quite facile argument that the irresponsibility of the few justifies the suffering of the many. Not to mention a very old argument.


Everybody's house value has dropped, everybody's retirement fund has dropped. It doesn't matter how responsible they've been all their life. But they all got what's coming to them, according to some.







kalikshama -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 11:27:49 AM)

quote:

To reiterate; the crash of the housing market is a direct result of financial industry actions, through various channels, by various means. When the rider steers the horse over a cliff, you cannot blame the horse.


I'm with ya there.

I don't see you advocating for mortgage erasure in this thread - what would you do about this mess?

quote:

Original: Iamsemisweet

And actually, the point of many of the lawsuits and some posters is that these mortgages should be erased.


I'm not for erasure. How about fee-free refi for those found to be victims of predatory lending?

I'd like to see the lion's share of the pain be administered to those responsible for the lion's share of the blame, which is not the horse.











tazzygirl -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 11:53:23 AM)

If we do that, what are the penalties to the companies who performed such actions against specific clients? They are the one's who were abused. Free homes? Nope, not at all... but I do think some monetary compensation should be offered.




Edwynn -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 12:15:01 PM)



Heck no, I've never advocated for complete erasure.


Quite a lot of people took out second mortgages on their own (aside from "the invasion of the house snatchers" in the poor neighborhoods) because of the dive in the economy as result of the recklessness of the financial industry. As we have seen in this thread, there are some eager to to turn it the other way round and equate desperation of retirees to some imagined "profligacy" on their part, as result of consequence they had nothing to do with.

As to what to do about this situation, I'm not sure, don't have any immediate answer.

The solutions that people who are a heck of a lot smarter than I am propose are ignored on a weekly basis. What I think is irrelevant.






Iamsemisweet -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 12:16:01 PM)

If it were up to me, I would reduce the principal to reflect the market value of the homes. The values are going to get marked down anyway. Not really sure how it would work in practice, but I felt that would have been a better use of bail out money than handing it strings free to the bank.
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

To reiterate; the crash of the housing market is a direct result of financial industry actions, through various channels, by various means. When the rider steers the horse over a cliff, you cannot blame the horse.


I'm with ya there.

I don't see you advocating for mortgage erasure in this thread - what would you do about this mess?

quote:

Original: Iamsemisweet

And actually, the point of many of the lawsuits and some posters is that these mortgages should be erased.


I'm not for erasure. How about fee-free refi for those found to be victims of predatory lending?

I'd like to see the lion's share of the pain be administered to those responsible for the lion's share of the blame, which is not the horse.












Iamsemisweet -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 12:50:22 PM)

You are delusional, as well as angry. Tell you what, I'll go back to assisting homeowners in mediating solutions to their mortgage situations and you go back to the library, and believing that no one has responsibility for their financial decisions.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
.
As we have seen in this thread, there are some eager to to turn it the other way round and equate desperation of retirees to some imagined "profligacy" on their part, as result of consequence they had nothing to do with.

As to what to do about this situation, I'm not sure, don't have any immediate answer.

The solutions that people who are a heck of a lot smarter than I am propose are ignored on a weekly basis. What I think is irrelevant.







willbeurdaddy -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 1:10:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

You are delusional, as well as angry. Tell you what, I'll go back to assisting homeowners in mediating solutions to their mortgage situations and you go back to the library, and believing that no one has responsibility for their financial decisions.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
.
As we have seen in this thread, there are some eager to to turn it the other way round and equate desperation of retirees to some imagined "profligacy" on their part, as result of consequence they had nothing to do with.

As to what to do about this situation, I'm not sure, don't have any immediate answer.

The solutions that people who are a heck of a lot smarter than I am propose are ignored on a weekly basis. What I think is irrelevant.







The International Federation of Library Associations and Institutions has banned him from libraries as he represents an affront to literacy.




Edwynn -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 1:20:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet




quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy





Let the kids play.


They are not in the mood for 'reading and comprehension skills' class today (or actually any other day, as demonstrated here).


Go have fun, kids.






Edwynn -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 9:11:50 PM)



quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

You are delusional, as well as angry. Tell you what, I'll go back to assisting homeowners in mediating solutions to their mortgage situations and you go back to the library, and believing that no one has responsibility for their financial decisions.




Apparently, it still has not sunken in yet that the lender is the one responsible for the financial decision. If you insist on referring to the basic premise of any finance or banking course as "delusional," then just take more of whatever you're taking and have fun with it.

When you are able to demonstrate to the audience here whatever law it is that allowed borrowers to force the lender's hand in the matter, then get back you us about your unique theory of financial responsibility.







Iamsemisweet -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 11:15:29 PM)

Nm.




Edwynn -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 11:27:46 PM)



quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

No, I am referring to you as delusional.




Myself as delusional, for educating myself properly on banking and finance, market regulation, etc., at the uni. One of the Professors being in court as expert witness on a semi-regular basis. I'm sure he's delusional too. Got it.

"Good stuff" you've got there, any case.







Iamsemisweet -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 11:33:47 PM)

I'm done. You are a strangely angry person. Why the fuck do you even care what I think? I have met some whack jobs on these boards, but you take the cake, bro.




Edwynn -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/3/2011 11:45:38 PM)


Y
ou are the one screaming.

Let's get the "anger" thing turned proper way around here.

Goes along with ignorance, in most cases. That last post, for instance.

I do tend to piss off complete ignoramuses from time to time.


PS

By your estimation of things, all parents are 'responsible' for the e. coli deaths of their kids, too.









kalikshama -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/4/2011 7:08:29 PM)

Cast-Iron Gates and Chicken Wire Surround Her House to Avoid Eviction An 82-year-old Bedford-Stuyvesant great grandmother fights to keep her home of 44 years, after she entrusted it to predatory lenders

[image]http://cdn.front.moveon.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/MaryWard-1-2-MAIN.jpg[/image]

...In 1995, Ms. Ward became the victim of a predatory lending scam after she borrowed $82,000 against her Bed-Stuy town home. She needed money fast, to continue paying her lawyers who were fighting on Ms. Ward's behalf for custody of her great granddaughter.

The lending company, Delta Funding, offered her the loan within 24 hours, including $10,000 in cash says Ms. Ward, and promised her the money within three days. The title company that secured the loan, closed on the deal without her signature and was supposed to sign over to her the check. But after three weeks of no check and non-returned phone calls by neither Delta or the owners of the title company, Ms. Ward began to get suspicious.

She started staking out their offices, and was just about to take legal action, she said, when the title company finally called.

“They said, ‘Well, Ms. Ward. We got your money; you’re gonna get you your baby. Just sign these papers,’” she said. “I was just so happy that I was gonna get the $10,000. When I got through signing those papers, he said, 'Here’s your check.' I looked at the check, and I almost passed out.”

The check they cut her was for $1,467.51.

They kept the remaining $8,500 as their fee, she said. The next day, Ward marched down to the Kings County District Attorney’s office at 210 Joralemon Street in Downtown Brooklyn, who then referred her to Housing Preservation and Development (HPD).

According to Ms. Ward, HPD immediately sent out letters to all involved parties and had the loan rescinded within 24 hours.

“I was so relieved, because I didn’t want all that trouble,” said Ms. Ward. “I just wanted my great grandbaby back. She was adopted illegally, you know, and I wanted her back.”

However, wheels were already in motion by Delta and Greenpoint Savings Bank—her mortgage provider—for the loan against Ms. Ward’s home. It was too late, she learned weeks later.

So she took another $10,000 and her case to a pro-bono civil rights attorney firm. The lawyer representing her offered to escrow her money until the case was settled. Instead, the lawyer spent her check—for which she was reportedly convicted and later did jail time.

...




tazzygirl -> RE: Top Foreclosure Firm’s Homeless-Themed Halloween Party Pictures Spark Controversy (11/21/2011 5:44:35 PM)

An update!

BUFFALO, N.Y. (AP) — A New York law firm that specializes in foreclosures and was criticized for a Halloween party that mocked the homeless will close, a spokesman said Monday.
Steven J. Baum P.C., one of the largest-volume mortgage foreclosure firms in New York, filed notice of mass layoffs with the state Department of Labor and local officials, indicating at least a third of its employees would lose their jobs. On Monday, spokesman Earl Wells III confirmed the law firm would close altogether.


http://news.yahoo.com/firm-held-foreclosure-costume-party-closing-213655547.html

Guess they dont find it so funny now. Couldnt happen to a nicer group of people.




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