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RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/26/2006 11:31:17 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Perhaps you should not discuss politics?


We both enjoy it so......until it becomes nasty.  It rarely becomes nasty, but when it does.....!BOOM!  In our better moments we can both remind ourselves that James Carville and Mary Matlin have done it for many years.  That is....in our better moments only.



I dated a marine that was oh so gorgeous (before I discovered BDSM). We argued over EVERYTHING. There was much passion there, but our first weekend together he made a comment that made me ditch him in San Francisco.. He said " You know Hitler had his good points". Well, I caught a train home a couple of hours later...smiles. He also was a Fox watcher, not that all of them feel the way he did. But it made me realize political views were of utmost importance since then and I haven't deviated from that opinion.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 5/26/2006 11:32:11 AM >

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(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/26/2006 11:42:47 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

p.s. bitatruble nice to see you again but your tag line is suspect... if you need a lawyer ...you did it!


Nice to see you again, Sir! I didn't know you were on these boards, but I must, respectfully, disagree. If you will read Mistoferin's tag line, you will she that not only did she do it, she admits it and she's going to do it again.. hence, I'm innocent!!



Celeste




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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/26/2006 11:45:35 AM   
MasterGentry


Posts: 14
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		It's a dang good thang that The Duke didn't hear him utter such sick drivel. lol
  My politics is as eclectic as My good senses can make it; I seldom believe any of them, but will accept that they utter a truth ever so often, I do believe that some in the republician party are morally bankrupt, and that they have some democrats sucking at the same teat of corrupt corporate America, I've even thought that, I should have voted for Ralph Nader despite his chances of winning, at least, I would have made a morally upright decision by voting My conscience instead of trying to head off the theft of the Oval office by the Texas mafia.
    I need to take a break and allow My psyche to cool off just a tad.
Gentry
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I dated a marine that was oh so gorgeous (before I discovered BDSM). We argued over EVERYTHING. There was much passion there, but our first weekend together he made a comment that made me ditch him in San Francisco.. He said " You know Hitler had his good points". Well, I caught a train home a couple of hours later...smiles. He also was a Fox watcher, not that all of them feel the way he did. But it made me realize political views were of utmost importance since then and I haven't deviated from that opinion.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/26/2006 11:46:51 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Right, that's what I was thinking of.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

In our better moments we can both remind ourselves that James Carville and Mary Matlin have done it for many years.

(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/26/2006 12:06:06 PM   
MasterGentry


Posts: 14
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		  Mary is a paid consultant and apologist for the republicians and James is a rapid fire democrat that can throw a kazillion facts into a few moments for a sound bite and still smile. I have to believe that they spend hours in pain every night upon returning home, from laughing at their bosses shenagians or I would worry more about the future of our country.
 Gentry
" Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding.
Even as the stone of the fruit must break, that its heart may stand in the sun, so must you know pain." ' The Prophet', Kahlil Gibran 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Right, that's what I was thinking of.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

In our better moments we can both remind ourselves that James Carville and Mary Matlin have done it for many years.


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/26/2006 1:47:59 PM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		I need to be careful here--but these issues can be very dangerous--and can lead to serious cracks in a relationship--been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. Either you need to call a moratorium on those discussions or he needs to put the machine gun away.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/26/2006 3:49:43 PM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		Discussions turn into arguements when people won't concede a fact that makes a point, or both don't have much in the way of facts to have a discussion with. Gut feelings and ideas based more on emotion or just belief are hard to have actual discussion about.
You both seem to have covered the same ground and yet find no common ground. If the political differences do not cause any real life troubles in the relationship, then you had best just make it an off limits area. I know it is hard. So many daily aspects of news and events have political roots. And it may be a passion for you.

Maybe a very strict set of guidelines for any discussion are needed. A certain time, a time limit, presentation and discussion of " just the facts ", it may prove that there is really very little to discuss on the matter, if you are not each prepared with real facts and information to discuss. Limit it to one thing about the politics, not the whole of your politics being better than the others.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/26/2006 4:00:12 PM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'm probably gonna be laughed at here... USE YOUR SAFEWORD!!!!
 
maybe he'll get the point that you're seriously experiencing difficulties with these conversations.
 
You might also avoid bringing up politics since he will take that as an invitation...

(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/26/2006 4:00:22 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Well thats what you get when you put two water signs together, intense emotions over issues, this can be a good thing or a bad thing for the relationship. (Sorry for pulling up your star sign info *grin*). You both just need to realise in these times that you love each other to death and its silly to continue these political debates where you both have oposing views.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/26/2006 4:13:11 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
There are famous examples of couples from opposite sides of the political spectrum (James Carville and his wife, if I remember correctly), but I'd say those are the exceptions that prove the rule.  If you're constantly arguing over politics, then I'd say there are two possible explanations: one, you're not really arguing over politics, you're arguing over something deeper and using politics as a way of venting; or, two, your political views are simply incompatible and you haven't learned how to agree to disagree.  I don't require a partner who shares all my moral and political beliefs, but they have to be compatible.  I'm an atheist.  I wouldn't insist that a partner has to be an atheist too, but if she's an evangelical, that's not likely to work out.

I wouldn't sweep this under the carpet, either.  Over the long term, issues like this will have to be resolved somehow.  What about estate planning, charity, things like that?  If you're going to be together for ten, twenty, fifty years, politics is going to be harder and harder to avoid.
These are exactly my sentiments on this issue even as I wouldn't type it out as eloquently.
I know that no matter how hot/kool I find a man, if we are diametrically opposed politically, it won't work in the long run.  
It's funny how issues of control show up within relationships, and I would think they'd be easier between a dominant/submissive to see the line, and decide on boundaries.  M

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(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/26/2006 7:17:22 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline 		I'm a political scientist with the graduate degree and all. Because of that, I avoid political conversations with partners like the plague. I'm a recipient of several national championships in debate, so "winning" a debate is quite easy for me. But there's no purpose behind it. If an issue is important, I will present what I believe to be the salient facts, and if that's not enough, I don't pursue it. If I'm involved in a political debate in the political arena, I'm very steadfast in my argumentation.

Unfortunately, in way too many "arguments" I've had with people about politics, the other side isn't actually arguing facts but putting forth an opinion and then a value judgment based on whether or not you agree with him. You never "win" in a debate like that; you just end up in a continuous loop where the other person is convinced that he has superior arguments because you can't refute them. Kind of like arguments involving Biblical pronouncements where the substantiation ends up being the Bible itself. You can't have a communication with someone who thinks on that level.

(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/26/2006 11:48:09 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

There are famous examples of couples from opposite sides of the political spectrum (James Carville and his wife, if I remember correctly), but I'd say those are the exceptions that prove the rule.  If you're constantly arguing over politics, then I'd say there are two possible explanations: one, you're not really arguing over politics, you're arguing over something deeper and using politics as a way of venting; or, two, your political views are simply incompatible and you haven't learned how to agree to disagree.  I don't require a partner who shares all my moral and political beliefs, but they have to be compatible.  I'm an atheist.  I wouldn't insist that a partner has to be an atheist too, but if she's an evangelical, that's not likely to work out.

I wouldn't sweep this under the carpet, either.  Over the long term, issues like this will have to be resolved somehow.  What about estate planning, charity, things like that?  If you're going to be together for ten, twenty, fifty years, politics is going to be harder and harder to avoid.


Great advice. And I agree, Lam; it's much deeper.  I'll just say that I know for a fact that two people who are diametrically opposed politically, can have a very fruitful and loving relationship.

Being a libertarian with leanings to the far right fiscally, I had a wonderful long term relationship with a lady who is / was extremely liberal in all aspects, almost to the point of being a ''Green'' - It's all about respect ; you don't have to surrender, but you gotta love the lady much more than your own political view points.



 - R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 5/27/2006 12:12:24 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/27/2006 12:00:28 AM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

p.s. bitatruble nice to see you again but your tag line is suspect... if you need a lawyer ...you did it!


Nice to see you again, Sir! I didn't know you were on these boards, but I must, respectfully, disagree. If you will read Mistoferin's tag line, you will she that not only did she do it, she admits it and she's going to do it again.. hence, I'm innocent!!



Celeste



Actually, I believe DragonDiver did it.  With his singletail.  I'm wondering when he's going to come back down to Tucson and do it again. 

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/27/2006 12:08:23 AM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Fast Reply here...

Just a question...

Should politics have such a deep meaning to one that it becomes a point of conflict with one's life partner? 

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Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/27/2006 12:17:36 AM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

Fast Reply here...

Just a question...

Should politics have such a deep meaning to one that it becomes a point of conflict with one's life partner? 


feastie,

I don't think it's a question of "should."  Obviously, with some couples it does.  Whether or not they can work out a modus vivende, like the Democratic hack and the Republican shill mentioned by others (neither of whom, I believe, have a sincere bone in their bodies) only the couple involved can decide.

(in reply to feastie)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/27/2006 2:44:12 AM   
ExistentialSteel


Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline 		If both of you have a common ground in the same moral beliefs, for instance, improving education, but differ in ways to accomplish the task, it shouldn’t be a deal breaker. It can be interesting to hear liberal and conservative approaches to a problem as long as both have fundamentally the same desire to improve a situation. All that is being debated is the best way to go about things. However, if one of you believes something that the other finds morally wrong, you are incompatible by my definition.

There is another issue here, though. The obsessive personality. I couldn’t live with anyone who constantly blathered about politics. Sure, I discuss issues and will have friendly debates now and then, but when it comes to the point where it is exasperating, I become uncomfortable. Have you ever seen a political web site where people post ad nausea about a national political personality, party or subject? They are obsessed and obsessed people are hard to be around.

< Message edited by ExistentialSteel -- 5/27/2006 2:46:51 AM >

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RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/27/2006 3:22:36 AM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

Fast Reply here...

Just a question...

Should politics have such a deep meaning to one that it becomes a point of conflict with one's life partner? 


Polotics is often a reflection of basic ideals. So it can definitely be a point of friction.
The very harsh polarization in the 2 party US politics is especially thorny.
A more multi party field could make for more peaceful households :) Maybe better sex even.
Now there is a reason for political activism.
Less divisive beds. But still strange bedfellows.

(in reply to feastie)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/27/2006 4:27:53 AM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel

However, if one of you believes something that the other finds morally wrong, you are incompatible by my definition.

There is another issue here, though. The obsessive personality. I couldn’t live with anyone who constantly blathered about politics.
Both good points ES. I am actually surprised that there is so much focus on politics in a relationship by some people. Sure, certain "issues" are important to me, but I would be hard pressed to even recall what party affiliation any of my past partners or casual aquaintances even identified with. Perhaps I subconciously have always managed to position myself with those just naturally adhere to the same ideals I do, who knows. I do know I don't recall ever having a political debate with anyone I was personally involved with...just sounds odd to me.
 
You know what "they" say...never discuss politics or religion...might be some wisdom to that advice.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/27/2006 7:01:06 AM   
Dustyn


Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn

I know that this is probably too simplistic of a cure for the whole thing, but have you looked at your SO and told him, "Hey, I'll think my way, you think your way.  If you continue to try and bait me, I'll continue to ignore you."

Something to that point will probably get the message through, in one way or another.



Maybe taking this one further, I should just hold up my hand and say "Speak to the hand" LOL



Sometimes, that is actually about the only option left other than seeing who hits the most decibels in the shortest amount of time...


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Can you be more amusing?

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Serious Political Difference - 5/27/2006 9:25:49 AM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		I don't think, with the exception of two people, I've ever known  my partner's politics.  It just never came up.

< Message edited by feastie -- 5/27/2006 9:32:22 AM >

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Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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