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Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/9/2011 3:26:29 PM   
Fightdirecto


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quote:

One of the more confusing findings from the American Values Survey was a question on racial discrimination that produced seemingly contradictory results.

Asked about the issue, majorities of white evangelicals, tea partiers and Republicans agreed both that "discrimination against minorities is still a very serious problem in our society" and that "we have gone too far in pushing equal rights in this country."

I think the answer to this apparent paradox lies in the question wording. The first statement is rather passive - the question doesn't identify who's doing the discrimination or how it manifests itself. The second statement gets more specific, identifying some sort of collective action (presumably governmental) that has potentially caused blowback or unintended consequences.

Those who responded positively to both statements may be small government conservatives (Rand Paul comes to mind) who believe that while there are still individual racists in society, there's nothing the government can or should do to address it.

As with the equal opportunity question also in the survey, the results show that many seem more willing to acknowledge the problem of racial discrimination than do something about it.


My take on this paradox: Most people, regardless of political leanings, want something or don't want something - but they won't personally do anything about it, hoping someone else will take care of the problem for them.




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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/9/2011 3:36:13 PM   
provfivetine


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Status: offline 		Discrimination against minorities is a problem (e.g., blacks and hispanics with drug laws, islamophobia, etc), but at the same time we are going too far to push for "equal" rights (e.g., affirmative action, violating property rights, etc). It's not a paradox at all.

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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/9/2011 4:34:00 PM   
tazzygirl


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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/9/2011 6:25:31 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
quote:


Faith In Public Life


As with the equal opportunity question also in the survey, the results show that many seem more willing to acknowledge the problem of racial discrimination than do something about it.


My take on this paradox: Most people, regardless of political leanings, want something or don't want something - but they won't personally do anything about it, hoping someone else will take care of the problem for them.

Thread title: " Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination"

Maybe a better title would be:  "Opinion Survey Company Fields Incompetently Worded Survey".  Subtitle: "Asks Yes or No questions, expects Essay"

But then ... people like you wouldn't have more ammunition to shoot for your partisan bullshit.

Firm


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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/9/2011 7:29:51 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		For decades the Right resisted the claim that racial discrimination existed, defended the racists in law and in policy and opposed any attempts to legislate to ensure that human rights of minorities were respected. Their position was it was OK to discriminate and that no measures should be adopted to outlaw/minimise such discrimination. This is true internationally.

Bearing that in mind, that many on the Right " seem more willing to acknowledge the problem of racial discrimination than do something about it" is perfectly consistent with their historical position. The evidence demonstrating racial discrimination is so overwhelming that it's ridiculous to deny its existence, a position the Right has finally arrived at after decades of denial. But do something about it - not a chance. That would be 'undemocratic'

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 11/9/2011 7:30:30 PM >

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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/9/2011 7:55:21 PM   
Fightdirecto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Thread title: " Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination"

Maybe a better title would be:  "Opinion Survey Company Fields Incompetently Worded Survey".  Subtitle: "Asks Yes or No questions, expects Essay"

But then ... people like you wouldn't have more ammunition to shoot for your partisan bullshit.

Firm

I used the exact same title the article's authors chose for the original article - take it up with them.

Your umbrage reminds me of the line from Shakespeare, "Methinks you protest too much". Sorry the title the original authors used got under your skin - possibly it's because you saw yourself in that title?

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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/9/2011 7:57:45 PM   
tazzygirl


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Yeah, racism is no longer an issue.

I need someone to add the dripping sarcasm sign, please.


< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 11/9/2011 7:58:55 PM >

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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/9/2011 8:07:33 PM   
provfivetine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
violating property rights.... explanation please.


(Cue the firestorm) The Civil Rights Act violates property rights.

For example, a black restaurant owner must--by law--serve a white supremacist. Would you agree that it is just for the restaurant owner to ban the supremacist from the restaurant?

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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/9/2011 9:19:06 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		It`s so whacked out how cons think.......just bassackwards...

The public accomidations law isn`t about forcing people to do things they don`t want to do.

If they don`t want to serve the general public,start a private eatery or get out of the business.


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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/9/2011 9:51:27 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

For example, a black restaurant owner must--by law--serve a white supremacist. Would you agree that it is just for the restaurant owner to ban the supremacist from the restaurant?


Nope, because without some overt action, the racist is just expressing a racist point of view. It's protected 1st amendment expression just like it is to say BS artists need to rely upon role reversal to make the 'gone too far' point.
  No firestorm here bullshit doesn't burn real well.
You sure you're not at the extension school?



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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/9/2011 9:56:35 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

The public accomidations law isn`t about forcing people to do things they don`t want to do.


I don't think his example is valid.
white supremacists wrap themselves in the first amendment and couldn't really distinguish themselves in the way P indicates. Unless there is the added dimension that the black restaurant owner has refused to serve "white people" and cites the example of a white supremacist. He wouldn't be refusing him service on the basis of his race under anything but the most ludicrous of circumstances.




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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/9/2011 10:07:47 PM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		I'm not surprised that you find this confusing, Fight. It's a straight liberal worldview thing. We have a problem in society, therefore, it must be addressed by government programs that will kiss it all better, and, more importantly, a liberal will see the (failed) liberal solution as being synonymous with the problem itself.

It doesn't occur to you for a moment, does it, that the "pushing of equal rights," through official racial preferences in hiring, student aid, delivery of welfare benefits, etc. might very well be seen as prolonging and even increasing the divisions, tensions, and sometimes hostilities between the races, rather than being the answer to a problem we can all recognize?

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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/9/2011 10:33:30 PM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

Discrimination against minorities is a problem (e.g., blacks and hispanics with drug laws, islamophobia, etc), but at the same time we are going too far to push for "equal" rights (e.g., affirmative action, violating property rights, etc). It's not a paradox at all.


It's not?

Your own post has contradictory statements.

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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/9/2011 10:41:05 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I'm not surprised that you find this confusing, Fight. It's a straight liberal worldview thing. We have a problem in society, therefore, it must be addressed by government programs that will kiss it all better, and, more importantly, a liberal will see the (failed) liberal solution as being synonymous with the problem itself.

It doesn't occur to you for a moment, does it, that the "pushing of equal rights," through official racial preferences in hiring, student aid, delivery of welfare benefits, etc. might very well be seen as prolonging and even increasing the divisions, tensions, and sometimes hostilities between the races, rather than being the answer to a problem we can all recognize?


I know what you mean Richie.

Let's go back to the '50's and '60's  mentality when we could just discriminate openly and these "hostilities" will disappear.

Do you think we can get separate drinking fountains and toilets again?

Ah, the good old redneck days!





< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/9/2011 10:45:00 PM >

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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/9/2011 10:59:03 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Thread title: " Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination"

Maybe a better title would be:  "Opinion Survey Company Fields Incompetently Worded Survey".  Subtitle: "Asks Yes or No questions, expects Essay"

But then ... people like you wouldn't have more ammunition to shoot for your partisan bullshit.

Firm

I used the exact same title the article's authors chose for the original article - take it up with them.

Your umbrage reminds me of the line from Shakespeare, "Methinks you protest too much". Sorry the title the original authors used got under your skin - possibly it's because you saw yourself in that title?


FD, is that true? Are you a partisan?


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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/10/2011 5:11:48 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

http://www.accessnorthga.com/detail.php?n=203414&c=7

Yeah, racism is no longer an issue.

I need someone to add the dripping sarcasm sign, please.



According to the article it is still a very serious issue...

"Asked about the issue, majorities of white evangelicals, tea partiers and Republicans agreed both that "discrimination against minorities is still a very serious problem in our society"

Why would you say it wasn't?


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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/10/2011 5:37:18 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Thread title: " Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination"

Maybe a better title would be:  "Opinion Survey Company Fields Incompetently Worded Survey".  Subtitle: "Asks Yes or No questions, expects Essay"

But then ... people like you wouldn't have more ammunition to shoot for your partisan bullshit.

Firm

I used the exact same title the article's authors chose for the original article - take it up with them.

Your umbrage reminds me of the line from Shakespeare, "Methinks you protest too much". Sorry the title the original authors used got under your skin - possibly it's because you saw yourself in that title?

1.  Doesn't matter. My comments are effective and accurate whether the arrow hits you or both you and the website you linked to.

2. I don't "protest" nearly as much as you " condemn".  Moat, beam, eye, brother.

Firm


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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/10/2011 5:57:42 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
violating property rights.... explanation please.


(Cue the firestorm) The Civil Rights Act violates property rights.

For example, a black restaurant owner must--by law--serve a white supremacist. Would you agree that it is just for the restaurant owner to ban the supremacist from the restaurant?


You're wrong.

A restaurant owner can refuse service to any individual. They just can't blanket refuse service to an identifiable group, like all whites or all mexicans.

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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/10/2011 12:21:17 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
quote:


Faith In Public Life


As with the equal opportunity question also in the survey, the results show that many seem more willing to acknowledge the problem of racial discrimination than do something about it.


My take on this paradox: Most people, regardless of political leanings, want something or don't want something - but they won't personally do anything about it, hoping someone else will take care of the problem for them.

Thread title: " Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination"

Maybe a better title would be:  "Opinion Survey Company Fields Incompetently Worded Survey".  Subtitle: "Asks Yes or No questions, expects Essay"

But then ... people like you wouldn't have more ammunition to shoot for your partisan bullshit.

Firm



Thank God we have non-partisans like you here. 

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RE: Conservative Contradictions on Racial Discrimination - 11/10/2011 12:30:52 PM   
Lucylastic


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