LillyBoPeep
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Joined: 12/29/2010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Awareness
Oh really? So the difference between someone who's mentally ill and your garden variety CollarMe sadist
I kinda get that you don't generally care what people think. =p But your delivery is probably the bulk of the problem... because a lot of times what you say is really not so repugnant.
This is actually something we used to talk about quite a bit.
My late Fella was irritated when he heard people say "people like that aren't a part of what we do," with regards to criminal sadists -- like the case of the man who kept women in his trailer/dungeon and had his slave either help capture them, or help torture them.
To him, the idea that they weren't "part of this" wasn't completely honest; he thought that people said that to make themselves feel better about what they were doing. somehow there's something "better" about us that lets us do this without going crazy, while they were basically flunking out because they weren't like the rest of us.
There is only a minor difference really (a minor difference that becomes quite major) -- one sadist cares that you want to be there, while the other one really doesn't. =p Vven in consensual relationships, a bottom can oscillate between wanting to be there and reeeally wanting to get away -- but that's all part of the fun, or they don't have the right to get away because they're also a slave. So where is the line, really?
It's like too much of a good thing -- if you drink too much water, it'll kill you. There are some common sense and "common good" things that you begin to ignore -- same could be said for someone out on the far ends of sadism, when they're perpetrating it without caring about consent (even consensual nonconsent) or the physical safety or future ability to thrive of the victim.
To him, it was like a sliding scale, - from "nil" with people who had no interest in it whatsoever,
- through the "we're pretty vanilla but i spank her when i'm fucking her" people,
- to the people like us -- and there are varying degrees of that, too, from your more "conventional players" to your edgier ones,
- finally ending with the people who go too far and do too much and overlook things that are necessary, where the criminal sadists are.
They are part of what we do, but they're part of "where you DON'T want to go," and can maybe be used in a teaching capacity that way.
I'm sure this will be unpopular, but I'm going to stop censoring my unpopular opinions.
The soundness of sadism is really in the mind of the sadist, because the sadist is the one who has to observe things like "will she be able to live without the use of a ventilator after i do this?" while the "victim" can consider it, but it doesn't ultimately matter, because it's not the do-er who is thinking about it.
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ORIGINAL: Awareness
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ORIGINAL: OsideGirlLastly, hurting someone and doing harm to someone are two different things. If you're hurting your submissive without harming her and everyone is having fun....it's all good.
Right. And what exactly is the difference here? Someone explain to me where the dividing line is between the two - because it seems pretty fucking nebulous to me.
Well generally the difference is that harm is more synonymous with damage. something very negative that has to be rebuilt or healed up.
if you stub your toe, it hurts, but you're physically okay.
if you break your toe, your toe is now damaged.
in the first one, you hurt your toe, and in the second you harmed your toe.
it's a super fine line at times (especially if you're messing with humiliation/degradation and other forms of mental sadism/masochism) because physical harm can be seen and easily quantified, while emotional/mental harm can't.
a lot of things can be boiled down to simple semantics, but i do believe this difference exists, and is not just semantics.
But at the same time, if you engage in styles of play that do leave wounds -- cutting, burning, caning or whipping until skin breaks, slapping and punching until you leave black eyes, etc -- these are things that have to heal, this is damage. Is it harm, though, if the person wants to be there? Can consent be a blanket for everything? =p
quote:
ORIGINAL: Awareness
quote:
ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
I'm going to echo what everyone here said. You can be a sadist and be a good person. You can be a sadist and be compassionate. It's one little facet of who you are, it doesn't define the entirety.
Yeah, that kinda sounds like "if you smoke but don't inhale..."
Not really, but if you're not a Sadist i guess it could be a matter of not having learned where the line is. The line DOES exist. You can hurt someone you love while still being a good person, because that other person wants to be there, and wants what you're doing. It's symbiotic.
If you're all the way at the end of the spectrum, hurting people who don't want to be there, or harming them to the point of killing them, then yeah, you're a bad person, because you're violating things that we associated with "common good."
But your average person here on CM isn't doing that.
GAH okay -- last edit. =p THE last edit --
Concerning sadism but on the flip side -- there are some of us who like the skirt the line. I enjoy playing with people who will take me somewhere where, on the surface, I don't want to go because I'm afraid to go there. If you push on in spite of crying and "no no no no noooo!" and make me obey and take whatever it is you're dishing out, this is something that is rare and fantabulous to me.
Obviously not something you do at a random play party hosted by KinkyFolks 'R Us. But something that can be totally sound with someone whose judgment you trust very much.
If you make me responsible for deciding whether a person is "sane," when I'm in the middle of some serious rollercoastering, and contemplating escape, and being overrun by fear, I'm probably not going to give you the same answer as I would the next day, when I've processed it all, and I'm so bloody appreciative of this person for pushing me there.
But also, if you decide that a person like this isn't "sane," then what does that say about me? It's annoying to be around kinky people but also still be unable to express who you are without "omgz what the hell is your problem?"
this is why i'm more aligned with RACK -- i am aware, to the best of my current ability, of what the risks are, and i consent to this. no subjective qualifier of what's "sane" or not, just each person's ablity to be rational and, for lack of a better word, "good."
< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 11/12/2011 5:13:16 AM >
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Midwestern Girl
"Obey your Master." Metallica
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RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. - 
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