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njlauren -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/21/2011 2:42:52 PM)
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I thought I would throw some more commentary out there, haven't had much time to post in recent days.
In terms of the outrageous dressing of trans people as some posters have allude to, it depends on who you are talking about. Drag Queens by their very nature are into over the top glam, whatever you call it. For many crossdressers, it is about a sexual turn on, they dress sexy/slutty because it is a turn on (and for a significant percentage of them, it also is about attracting a sexual partner into CD's......after all, think about the attraction to slutty women some men (and women) have, not all that much different. Obviously, there are crossdressers who don't dress out there, who would wear things more like a typical woman would do, maybe wear jeans with a pair of nice shoes and a sweater, or whatever (especially for CD's who want to be out there as woman)..it all depends.
For trans people who are transitioning, if they seem to have fashion faux pas and dress like sluts or whatever, I think it is as others have written based on my own experiences, it is about being free finally, about being able to explore and experiment, and yes it can be outrageous. Part of it is where many trans girls get their starts, it often is in so called "TG" clubs or mixed clubs where outrageous dress is not exactly unknown.....but it is also about experiencing what they never had. Take a look at young women , teenage girls and girls in their 20's, and what do you see? Quite often , girls who are pushing the limits, the tight outfits, outrageous heels, heavy makeup, low cut tops, miniskirts, etc.......talk to people who manage young women and ask their experience with explaining appropriate work attire and so forth.....as others have pointed out, M to F trans people kind of go through a second teenagehood, including hormonal mood swings, etc (the picture I use on here was taken early in transition, in a club....later on you would likely see me in Jeans and a sweater and a nice pair of boots, lot less makeup., etc...:unless, of course, doing something where slutwear is appropriate...). Most get over this, unless they are really young and want to fit in with what 'real' girls are wearing. Yeah, it is counterproductive, if you are 6' tall already with marginal features for passing, you don't want to wear higher heels or a lot of makeup, you don't want to draw attention to yourself. A common saying is you don't want to rate a second glance, because a second glance is often the killer...:). I have heard and seen similar things with F to M's I know, many of them kind of go off into teenage boy/joe cool mode, become overtly agressive, in some cases almost bordering on becoming stereotypes....I suspect for the same reasons as M to F's, and also probably because of Testosterone, which is pretty heavy duty stuff.
As far as with the forum contrarian with claims science should be finding a way to 'cure this' abnormality (and said the same thing about gays and lesbians), first of all, use of the word 'normal' and 'abnormal' has a major problem. If you want to argue that being gay or being trans is statitistically 'abnormal' i.e out of the norm, the middle of the bell curve, of course...but so are left handed people, people with blue eyes, people with IQ's above 132, people with six toes, women with three breasts, women over 6' tall in most societies, natural blonds, etc.......
As far as defining it in the context that abnormal= deviant, weird, sick, etc, I would be careful about that, anyone on this board by its very nature is defined by a lot of people as that, there are plenty of the religious right types who hate gays who would want to make anyone's life on here hell, they would define it is 'sick', perverted, deviant, etc, and would want laws to make it illegal (the late, unlamented Sodomy Laws in Texas made bd/sm activity illegal as well).....so where do we draw the line? The poster who said being gay or trans was 'abnormal' is practicing extreme myopia, because bd/sm is considered abnormal by a lot of people and they would want to 'cure' people of it, too.......
Being gay has signs it is not abnormal but rather is a normal variation, as being left handed is or blue eyes or extremely tall. Abnormalities, specifically genetic abnormalities, tend to occur in populations in relatively small numbers, genetic born diseases like Tay Sachs and so forth tend to be in less then 1% of the population; whereas gay and lesbians are anywhere from 5-10% of the population. More importantly, gays and lesbians represent evolutionarily distinct advantages to the species, among which is seen in gays and lesbians with adoption, they tend to end up as caregivers in animal communities for other people's kids, helping raise them....and despite the rise of gays and lesbians with kids, they tend to have lesser numbers so they represent more resources for those who have kids. And despite what the religious right claims, homosexuality has been found in over 300 species of higher animals, and more importantly, in human society it has been found in every culture, including ones isolated from the 'modern world' until recently, which takes away the idea that it is a product of 'modern society' or as the morons in Africa claim "invented by the Europeans and Americans and brought to Africa".....
Likewise, evidence of transgender or gender variant behavior is found across cultures going back many thousands of years, long before modern man had words for it, so it isn't the sexual revolution or 'made up' as some nasty writers in books and such have said.
While no one has a definite answer on why someone is either gay or trans, there is a lot of evidence out there, people have been studying it, and so far there is a lot of evidence that it isn't a psychological condition caused by circumstances, it seems to be inate, something there from early childhood. And the evidence, while not conclusive, is pretty strong:
-There have been years and years of attempts to 'cure' being trans or gay through therapy, all kinds of 'reparative' therapy out there, all kinds of use of drugs to diminish sex drive (which in theory would take out trans behavior if it were a fetish, and it fails for those truly transgender), all kinds of vicious aversion therapy, shock therapy, and it doesn't work. With so called reparative therapy. less then 5% of those so treated within 5 years stay living the 'straight and narrow' life, and other attempts have even less effectiveness, despite attempts by many over the past 40 or 50 years to try. Put it this way, you go to the FDA with a drug that works 5% of the time, and watch what they say.....
-Studies of the brains of transsexuals/transgender identified people have shown different brain structure, with M to F's having more the structure of a genetic female (I don't know about M to F's). The studies are limited, but what it indicates is that trans identification may be a factor of brain structure, kind of like a female brain in a male body...
-Some significant studies of mamalian development has shown that developing as a male or female is very, very complex. Most people, for example, know that embryos all start out as female and then sometime in the development process bifurcate to physically develop into male or female. What studies and experiments with mamalian embryos in utero is showing is that the physical development is only part of it. Apparently, in the womb the embryo is subject to cycles of hormones from the mother,that happen at specific times in the gestation period, and what scientists have shown is if you interrupt that cycle, of a hormone 'bath' doesn't happen in a specific way, that the offspring that is born can display gender traits opposite to their body, you can get an otherwise female mouse or whatever, of example, displaying the agression and attributes of a male, including sexual behavior, and a male mouse doing the opposite.
Does this prove anything? No, but then again, no one has proven anything about how personality develops, how our intellect develops, but that doesn't mean we don't believe for example an extrovert or an introverted personality is invalid, even though we don't know why some are introverted and some extroverted, we simply accept it that people are different, and it should be the same way with gender or sexual variations.
It isn't like I don't understand what people are talking about when they say it can be uncomfortable when seeing/being with a trans person, or that it triggers weirdness bells and such, I can more then understand it. Yes, we are programmed to pick out that is different, a friend of mine a long time ago, talking about why even now you can pick out CGI graphics and tell the difference from 'real' images, as he put it we have 6 million years of evolution to tell us that anything different may be a threat..on the other hand, we also have an evolving society that makes the effort to overcome that instinct, because it isn't always a good thing. For example, xenophobia is often based in fear of those we don't know or look different, or we get squicked by people with deformities, and few would argue either are good things. I more then understand people being uncomfortable with trans folks and I can understand them having trouble coming to grips with it, and if they don't want to be around me, that is fine quite honestly, why would I want to be around someone who doesn't want to be around me? On the other hand, all I would expect is the same kind of courtesy you give other people who are different, simply treat myself or others as human beings, what I would expect if someone doesn't like someone who is Jewish or black or wiccan or short or tall or whatever..I would hope people are able to look beyond things and realize being trans is what someone is, not who they are, but what civilization is supposed to be about is overcoming animal instincts to be able to live together.
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