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Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 5:05:03 AM   
UtahGoddess


Posts: 205
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Utah
Status: offline
<sighs>

First of all I want to thank you for listening to my rant and considering my question.

I was asked by a local girl (sub) to introduce her to people in the Community so I agreed to take her to a local munch. She is brand new to the lifestyle and uncertain about what to expect. Based on her schedule we agreed to attend a local coffee.

The coffee went well. So well in fact we decided to join the group at a local restaurant for after coffee dinner. (Warning....rant starts here) About 20 - 25 of us decend on a local diner. Half way through dinner the DOMS start tossing french fries accross the room at each other, escalating up to lettuce.

I was appalled and embarrassed. To make it worse, one of the participants looked at me laughingly and said "This is how we get kicked out of restaurants!" (As if it were a merit badge) I got up and made my exit.

Though I was annoyed, embarrassed and yes...ashamed...a deeper feeling settled into me as I turned it over in my mind. A feeling I can't quite put into words. Language is sometimes so limiting. I felt the members and leaders in my community were making a mockery of my beliefs. That I had become a part of some Bizzaro world.

Now....some will accuse me of taking things too seriously. They may be right. I do feel a responsibility to be an example to others. I feel a duty to represent my community in a dignified way, especially to outsiders. I require of myself the same protocol and standards I expect from my boys..... maybe even moreso.

Perhaps my ideas and aspirations are too romantic and idealised. But I see this lifestyle as one filled with nobility, honor, dignity, chivalry..... peppered with courtly behavior and protocol. It is how I treat others and how I expect to be treated (both Dom/me and sub alike).

It upsets me greatly to be seen as side show freaks, clowns or deviants....especially when it is members of my own community that project that image.

Don't get me wrong. I like to play and have fun as much as anyone else. But when I am in the public eye, I try and project the best image possible of what this lifestyle is about. I want people to see us and say to themselves "I want to be a part of that" not be horrified (or amused) by juvenile or inappropriate behavior.

Am I alone in my thinking? Is it wrong of me to expect a certain level of maturity?

Ms Sandi

_____________________________

"The Masochist desires to experience stronger sensations, but desires that it should be inflicted with Love. The Sadist desires to inflict stronger sensations, but desires that it should be felt as Love" Havelock Ellis The Project Gutenberg
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 5:33:33 AM   
INSIDEYOURMIND


Posts: 483
Status: offline 		You are not alone, I like the Nobilty, and Honor of this lifestyle.
I like to have fun, and have even been know to throw some food at times, but typically with my children involved, and certainly not in a group that people are just looking for a reason to condemn.
By the way, did you take the sub with you when you left?

_____________________________

If I got smart with you.................
How would you know?

(in reply to UtahGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 5:44:10 AM   
UtahGoddess


Posts: 205
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Utah
Status: offline
Yes. I took her with me and apologised profusely on the way home.

Ms Sandi

_____________________________

"The Masochist desires to experience stronger sensations, but desires that it should be inflicted with Love. The Sadist desires to inflict stronger sensations, but desires that it should be felt as Love" Havelock Ellis The Project Gutenberg

(in reply to INSIDEYOURMIND)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 6:30:17 AM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline 		M. Sandi-

I really can't imagine the situation in which throwing food around in a public place could be done that wouldn't appal me. I'd be especial embarassed in your situitaion, escorting a seeker to a group function, and having them act like the monkey cage at the zoo.

It's not just you...

stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to UtahGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 6:30:35 AM   
MaitresseEden


Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline 		You are not alone at all. Just based on that report alone, it sounds like I wouldn't be comfortable with that group people. There is a time and a place for such behavior, and in a public resturant with nilla's watching is not one of them. Attention seeking behavior is most often a sign of insecurity, so ask just how secure those fry tossing Doms really are. Sounds to me like they deep so be dunked in some hot oil.

Ms. Eden

_____________________________

"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

(in reply to UtahGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 7:08:13 AM   
srahfox


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/17/2004
Status: offline 		The last time I remember thinking being banned from a restaraunt was cool I was about 16 and knee deep in Rocky Horror. The cast use to go out after the show and before to long (That night or with in a few weeks) we were no longer allowed in. I do agree that as the "outcasts" or what ever the vanilla world chooses to call us, we should show a better fact to the world. Not to mention someone had to clean up the mess and that's just rude. I hate it when people let their children make a mess and then leave it. You have every right to be upset and embarrased. You did the best thing you could do. I will give one word in their favor, trying to show a good face to the world and fighting against the norms out there is trying so somethings you just have to say fuck it and do what you want to do, the hell with what other people say. But that was not the time or place. More so not with newbies. Even more so when you consider that you never know if there was a curious server out there who may have found her way in, and now would be put off.

(in reply to MaitresseEden)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 7:29:24 AM   
velvetvixen


Posts: 378
Joined: 1/19/2004
Status: offline 		I can't imagine any situation that I could be put in when I would think it acceptable to throw food around in a "general population" restaurant. I would have flipped out big time. There are idiots in every walk of life, and I try to remember that. Unfortunately they are the ones that feed the public's perception of the rest of us.

(in reply to UtahGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 7:39:56 AM   
srahfox


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/17/2004
Status: offline 		saddly velvetvixen that's too true. When you are on the outside of the 'normal' (Whatever that may be) world, you have to work twice as hard to simply not seem 'wrong'. Even when I was 16 I would have been unhappy with food throwing. Usually we got kicked out because of being loud. At least I was a kid. They should have been on their best behavior.

(in reply to velvetvixen)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 8:04:34 AM   
Hawkins


Posts: 31
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: I'm English but I live in the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Based on the story, I say behaving like an ass in a situation where others cannot avoid ones ass-ness, and in fact are paying good money to be there, is an inconsiderate thing for ANYONE to do.

This is not a question of kink. This is a question of common courtesy.

Even if there's no one else in the restaurant, it makes the staff's job harder. Most of the people who did it would object to the concequences of them doing it if they'd had to clean it up.

Other points about responsibility in the kink community et. al. are right too; but that behaviour described is (unless we are talking one or two fries and a leaf that did not mess the place up of put other diners out, and I don't think we are) out-of-line.

(in reply to srahfox)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 10:42:50 AM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Idont think you are alone...

With the advent of computers.. the rise of roleplay... the openly sexual nature of our culture... the acceptance of alternate individuals into mainstream society... we both loose and gain alot.. we gain the potential to reach and include so many more wonderful people which is great.. and we gain the potential to reach and include so many more eejits which is not so great.

There are numerous things I love about this community.. I love that we can discuss anything.. and I loathe that we are incredibly intolerant of each other.. I love that we come together in these great communal activities to support each other.. and I loathe that we cant leave the petty bullshit politicking at the door.... I love that we inclusive and I loathe that we are not more exclusive if that makes sense.

I think of how open I was when I got involved and how jaded I have become.. as a result of some of the people involved in this lifestyle.. I have become less humorous about things involving in this lifestyle and yet often the only thing I can do is make a joke about whats going on to people who are new.. I think your experience while not specifically the same is shared by many of us.. and thats sort of sad.

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to UtahGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 10:51:11 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		First I'll say that your rant is entirely justified. Of course you should expect to be able to join a group for a meal and expect them to behave better than the Three Stooges.

Now, I will quibble with some of the other notions. First you mentioned introducing the girl to others in the "Community", and like any other community it will have freaks, criminals, idiots and others whom you normally wouldn't associate with if it weren't for having a common interest. So it isn't a private club where membership is restricted.

So when I see descriptions like this:
quote:

But I see this lifestyle as one filled with nobility, honor, dignity, chivalry..... peppered with courtly behavior and protocol.

I would agree that they are "too romantic and idealised." Such descriptions always strike me as if they came out of a fairy tale having gallant knights, fair maidens and cute little unicorns prancing about. I think it is great that you would try to behave like that, and totally unrealistic to hold others to the same standards. Of course, you can at least expect them to act like adults and eat food instead of throwing it.

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to UtahGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 11:18:41 AM   
Kinkypupper


Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline 		IU can only say that that group of people are in the minority here and we all wish they were a smaller minority.

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to happypervert)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 1:58:20 PM   
Thanatosian


Posts: 765
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: New Castle, PA
Status: offline 		I might have found that somewhat acceptable behaviour if at a private outdoor bar b q or get together, with the expectation that participants would have to help clean up afterwards - but in a public restaurant? And with the stated intention of getting thrown out? Not someone who I would want to trust to be in control of themselves in a scene, if they cannot control their behaviour to what is considered to be acceptable in public.

Granted that even dominants need to 'step out' and 'let loose' on occasion, there is a time and place for everything - behaving like a grade school aged child in a public restaurant is not Domly behaviour, IMNTBHO

Moderation in all things - iincluding moderation

Just my tuppence.

_____________________________

Apply Usual Caveats Here

An expert is somone who has made all the mistakes there are to be made

(in reply to UtahGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 2:06:34 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		I am so sorry to hear that this has happened to you. Of course, these things happen all the time in this day and age, and it is not just people in O/our lifestyle. I would not have accepted this behavior from My own children when they were growing up. I expect adults to act as such, especially when they are in a public place. Perhaps this sort of behavior, at public gatherings, is what gives so many newbie sub/slave boys out there the wrong impression of what many of U/us seek?

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to UtahGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 4:15:46 PM   
LadyShoshin


Posts: 492
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UtahGoddess


<sighs>

First of all I want to thank you for listening to my rant and considering my question.

I was asked by a local girl (sub) to introduce her to people in the Community so I agreed to take her to a local munch. She is brand new to the lifestyle and uncertain about what to expect. Based on her schedule we agreed to attend a local coffee.

The coffee went well. So well in fact we decided to join the group at a local restaurant for after coffee dinner. (Warning....rant starts here) About 20 - 25 of us decend on a local diner. Half way through dinner the DOMS start tossing french fries accross the room at each other, escalating up to lettuce.

I was appalled and embarrassed. To make it worse, one of the participants looked at me laughingly and said "This is how we get kicked out of restaurants!" (As if it were a merit badge) I got up and made my exit.

Though I was annoyed, embarrassed and yes...ashamed...a deeper feeling settled into me as I turned it over in my mind. A feeling I can't quite put into words. Language is sometimes so limiting. I felt the members and leaders in my community were making a mockery of my beliefs. That I had become a part of some Bizzaro world.

Now....some will accuse me of taking things too seriously. They may be right. I do feel a responsibility to be an example to others. I feel a duty to represent my community in a dignified way, especially to outsiders. I require of myself the same protocol and standards I expect from my boys..... maybe even moreso.

Perhaps my ideas and aspirations are too romantic and idealised. But I see this lifestyle as one filled with nobility, honor, dignity, chivalry..... peppered with courtly behavior and protocol. It is how I treat others and how I expect to be treated (both Dom/me and sub alike).

It upsets me greatly to be seen as side show freaks, clowns or deviants....especially when it is members of my own community that project that image.

Don't get me wrong. I like to play and have fun as much as anyone else. But when I am in the public eye, I try and project the best image possible of what this lifestyle is about. I want people to see us and say to themselves "I want to be a part of that" not be horrified (or amused) by juvenile or inappropriate behavior.

Am I alone in my thinking? Is it wrong of me to expect a certain level of maturity?

Ms Sandi

It is one thing if we are in a venue that is kinksters & only kinksters to kick up our heels. Telling jokes, laughing, no problem, but when community members begin acting like 5 year olds in public, they have crossed the line. I wouldn't let my 4 year old grandson behave like that in public. We gripe about the image the vanilla world has of us, we try one person at a time to debunk the stereotypes. Unacceptable behaviour isn't helping our cause at all. And it certainly won't make the group welcome back at the restaurant. I run a munch, people behaving in that manner would be taken aside quietly and told to behave or leave.
I would have been mortified as you were. And never return to that munch.

_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

(in reply to UtahGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 4:28:40 PM   
NoCalOwner


Posts: 241
Status: offline 		This whole topic makes me glad that the restaurants which host the munches in my area have no idea what sort of group we are. I've never witnessed that sort of behavior at a munch myself, but... better safe than sorry.

(in reply to UtahGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 4:53:50 PM   
MistressXinran


Posts: 24
Joined: 10/4/2004
Status: offline 		You are definatley not alone, a week ago I was introducing a new sub to the scene at a local club night, he had no idea where he stood in the scene or what he liked, I had an audience watching my scene which is fine I enjoy educating people and am flattered by peoples intrest in my play. What I objected too is a so called Domme singing happy birthday to her friend right next to the rack I was using and then proceeding to tell me I wasn't hitting him hard enough I needed to leave ripe bruises and blood. Concidering the guy had no idea where his limits stood I was pacing my scene nicely and was dismayed at her lack of concideration when I attempted to explain what I was doing and I was appaled at her lack of ettiquette. I spent the rest of the night trying to explain to the sub that this was not how one conducted themselves on the scene.
My faith in people on the scene was partially restored when a friend of the woman (a sub) came and apologised for her behaviour and the disruption to the scene.
I may be being unfair and expecting too much but this behaviour really shocked me.
Xinran

(in reply to NoCalOwner)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 6:33:54 PM   
IservBlkKingPaPa


Posts: 84
Joined: 8/17/2004
From: Long Island NY
Status: offline 		Dear UG

no you are not alone. The behavior of that group was disrespectful to themselves and everyone around them, even the food. Food is not to be thrown around, it is a precious commodity and should be respected. This slave is sorry that you had such an embarassing experience, she hopes your next venture out into the community will be a positive one. take care

@}PaPa's}slave}--
Every Rose has her Thorns...

(in reply to UtahGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Am I alone? - 10/21/2004 7:33:30 PM   
bottominwa


Posts: 240
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		How old WERE these "Doms"? It just seems like the behaviour of immaturity or insanity...clearly it might put things into context were they all under 20? These so called "Doms"? For if You were in a room full of "Doms" over the age of 20...and increasing exponentially with each decade..these people were throwing food..they should consider having their next "coffee" in the mental ward.

It's just plain bizarre,

sabrina King

House of King

(in reply to IservBlkKingPaPa)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Am I alone? - 10/23/2004 12:05:15 AM   
compes


Posts: 92
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		First, you had every right to expect a level of maturity that these people were not showing. I wonder how many others at that event were appalled? I would bet you are not alone there.

They were jerks. Speaking as one who spent a large part of his teen years working in the food service industry, I would say that they were not very thoughtful of the people who would have to clean up afterwards.

Second, I do believe that there can be a time and place to throw food, especially in BDSM, as long as the participants are the ones that clean up afterward. (Other conditions apply – such as not in front of those who haven’t consented to such shenanigans, and in a place where the owner doesn’t mind flying food.)

What comes to mind is the “Lady’s Tea” that our group hosts in a private home now and again. Very formal, ladies dressed to the nines delicately nibbling fresh baked cookies, fruit, and little sandwiches, and drinking tea from fine china. The “kitchen slaves” are all male, and are allowed to wear an apron or oven mitts. These ladies disdain to actually ‘touch’ a slave, so if the service is lacking they will throw a grape. (Bowl of carefully plucked and washed grapes provided by the kitchen slaves.)

I’m told that their aim is quite accurate!

Compes

(in reply to UtahGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 20
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