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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:10:55 PM   
Awareness


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Status: offline 		  Why do people who start arguing with Heather, always end up arguing with ArPig?  Is she not up to the task?


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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:11:16 PM   
windchymes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Prove they weren't.

Perhaps you should learn what a hallucination is.



Oh, I know what a hallucination is. Why don't you get over whatever it is you need to get over and learn what a shitstirrer is? Enough already.


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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:12:51 PM   
monark


Posts: 2
Joined: 11/8/2011
Status: offline 		Why don't both of you tackle the problem empirically? State it in terms of science and examine it using logic rather than "You're wrong/No, you're wrong!"

Replace the fuzzy assertion "Ghosts exist" with something that can actually be argued and tested, such as the following.

Hypothesis: There exist phenomena that are not composed of interactions between conventional matter and energy, but are still sometimes perceptible to human senses.

Does that sound like a a ghostly definition?

M

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:20:41 PM   
Arpig


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From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

Why do people who start arguing with Heather, always end up arguing with ArPig?
I suspect that is because, unlike myself, she has better things to do.

< Message edited by Arpig -- 11/13/2011 7:23:13 PM >

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:22:10 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

Why don't you get over whatever it is you need to get over and learn what a shitstirrer is?
You would know all about those, wouldn't you?

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:22:16 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Okay, let me clarify, you dispute the identifiers of what people are seeing, feeling or hearing -- its the same thing.  You cannot dispute what they have saw, felt or heard aren't ghosts and spirits - why, because you have not seen, heard, or felt what they are identifying as ghosts to disprove them.    They have experienced it and identified it, it is now up to you to disprove it.  IF you and others don't based on every claim, then your absolute of they do not exist is incorrect. 

There is also a difference between people guessing that the world is flat and someone disproving it and people experiencing something and you can't disprove it because you haven't experienced it.

grins, this is always interesting because you have people who haven't experienced something telling others who have experienced something how to correctly identify it. 

angel

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:26:24 PM   
windchymes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: monark

Why don't both of you tackle the problem empirically? State it in terms of science and examine it using logic rather than "You're wrong/No, you're wrong!"

Replace the fuzzy assertion "Ghosts exist" with something that can actually be argued and tested, such as the following.

Hypothesis: There exist phenomena that are not composed of interactions between conventional matter and energy, but are still sometimes perceptible to human senses.

Does that sound like a a ghostly definition?

M



I'd love to be able to test it out, but since it was a one-time event that happened 10 years ago, we can't really do that, can we? It happened to me when I was quite lucid, something I saw and felt physically. I've tried many times and cannot voluntarily reproduce the physical symptoms or reactions or whatever, and I don't hallucinate running the vacuum cleaner to clean the dirt up off the floor from the spilled plant.

He is entitled to believe whatever he wants and more power to him. And I am entitled to believe what I want and will continue to do so, no matter what names I am called or what suggestions are made to me to further my education regarding subject matter that I am already quite well schooled in.

Your definition is as good as any. But "Do ghosts exist?" fits into the Subject line. Your hypothesis will not I see you are new here, welcome aboard.

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:26:52 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

Hypothesis: There exist phenomena that are not composed of interactions between conventional matter and energy, but are still sometimes perceptible to human senses.
Because the existence of the phenomena is not being questioned, only their attribution to the activity of dead people. Do try to keep up.

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:27:17 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Monark, its not about identifying ghosts or spirits, its about actually experience.

I don't need to prove it or disprove it -- i am speaking of his use of the absolute they do not exist, when people have indicated they have experience with ghosts and spirits.

That in and of itself is why they DO exist.  I can't tell someone who is identfying their experience as being with a ghost or spirit they are misidentifying what it was because i personally haven't experienced what they did. 

His saying "they do not exist" when HE has no ability to experience what people who are identifying ghosts have, means he can't disprove their claim.

angel

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:31:35 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

I have never hallucinated once in my entire lifetime.
I beg to differ.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3920040

Quite clearly you have.


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Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:32:16 PM   
Aileen1968


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From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		You really are a sad, sick man.

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:33:55 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

when people have indicated they have experience with ghosts and spirits.
No, people have experiences that they wrongly attribute to ghosts and spirits.

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Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:35:24 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		No Aileen, I am actually quite a happy sick man.

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Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:40:04 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

when people have indicated they have experience with ghosts and spirits.
No, people have experiences that they wrongly attribute to ghosts and spirits.
Some do I am sure.

Some also have experiences that they correctly attribute to spirits.

Ain't diversity fucking grand?




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yep

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:40:15 PM   
Aileen1968


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From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		I can understand why you haven't had any ghostly experiences. Why the hell would they want to come back and see you?

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:40:31 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Good grief, lol

angel

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:56:14 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

Some also have experiences that they correctly attribute to spirits.
In order for that to be the case, spirits would have to exist, so it clearly cannot be so.

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Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 7:58:03 PM   
Zonie63


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From: The Old Pueblo
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Monark, its not about identifying ghosts or spirits, its about actually experience.

I don't need to prove it or disprove it -- i am speaking of his use of the absolute they do not exist, when people have indicated they have experience with ghosts and spirits.



I think the question that I would have, without necessarily asking one to prove or disprove what they experienced, is how do they have definite knowledge that what they experienced was actually a ghost? I'm not saying that one is wrong or right to believe in ghosts, but I'm just asking: How can anyone be sure it's a ghost they saw?







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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 8:06:58 PM   
BKSir


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From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline 		I believe in ghosts/spirits/supernatural entities, yes. But I also believe that 95% of them are NOT. That they are banging pipes, visual matrixing, ears playing tricks, etc. There are a lot of things that are just NOT ghosts. I will go to even more wild explanations to say something isn't a ghost than it would be to say that it is. But, I've seen and experienced some shit that's so weird, so out there, so inexplicable that there's nothing else it could be.

Do I know WHAT a ghost really is? Nope. I also don't know how exactly how to make a bowling ball. But, I know that bowling balls exist. (on that note, I'm going to stop, as cold meds are making me incoherent apparently)

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/13/2011 8:10:41 PM   
Arpig


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From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

How can anyone be sure it's a ghost they saw?
They can't.

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Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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Profile   Post #: 100
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