RE: Breastfeeding In Court?

RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (Full Version)

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searching4mysir -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 3:53:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alecta quote: ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go Well I'm of the opinion that you're wrong. Perhaps you should take a civics class to learn the theory behind what is, then you might see that indeed what is is not what was intended. Actions and intentions do not equate... causing the death of another without intent is still causing the death of another, for example. Hurting someone's feelings unintentionally does not magically unhurt them. I'm a little confused as to the suggestion of civics lessons. I was under the impression that I'm being objected to as being too rigid versus your views, so wouldn't a civics class teaching empirical standards of moral and ethical behaviour only be contributing to my end of the spectrum? However, intent is the difference between manslaughter, self-defense, and murder.

DarqueMirror -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 4:04:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agirl I'm afraid that just because there is lots of sloppy parenting going on all around the place doesn't mean that, on the SINGLE issue of breastfeeding when out with an infant, they go hand in hand. It doesn't mean they don't, either. quote: ORIGINAL: agirl Your rants are extremely one-tracked and one sided, and you seem to link ALL breastfeeding mothers into one baby-squatting, welfare-scrounging, sloppy-parenting group. It's not the case. I'll agree that I don't live where you are, and thus haven't seen what you have, if you'll agree you don't live where I live, and thus haven't seen the "mom" walking through walmart, shirt up, kid practically dangling from her tit. quote: ORIGINAL: agirl This is one issue, that stands alone, and you don't seem to be able to seperate it. And you seem to separate it too much. While it's true that not every mom who breastfeeds is or becomes one of the type I mentioned, many do. quote: ORIGINAL: agirl Did you ever notice families with nicely-behaved, thoughtful and well-mannered children... Not for a long, long time. Most of the time they are little hellions and the mother is doing nothing about it. And no, I don't approach them because I don't care enough to. I steer clear so my day isn't ruined by some cretin.

DarqueMirror -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 4:06:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig Actually no. What it conveys is "Oh-oh, the kid is hungry, I had better take care of that quickly and quietly with the minimum of fuss and bother so he won't bother or disturb anybody." Rather than disrespect, in this particular case it shows just the opposite, it shows respect. Care to try again? I've known more than a few adults who get 'fussy' when they don't eat the moment they are hungry too. Yet in a court of law, they aren't allowed to. However a child is. Funny that.

DarqueMirror -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 4:08:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agirl The second best situation is to at least be able to do it without distain, derision and disgust. If you'd just add the words "where appropriate," the debate would be over.

searching4mysir -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 4:09:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: agirl The second best situation is to at least be able to do it without distain, derision and disgust. If you'd just add the words "where appropriate," the debate would be over. The problem is that you would disagree on "where appropriate" is, so the debate would continue.

DarqueMirror -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 4:11:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I disagree. In order to graduate, she is required to be in class. Attending class is a choice, not a requirement. Neither is graduation. She made the choice to start the class and she makes the choice whether or not to continue. There's no legal requirement of her to be there. And if I'm paying hundreds of dollars per class to be somewhere, I assure you I'd complain.

DarqueMirror -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 4:17:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir The problem is that you would disagree on "where appropriate" is, so the debate would continue. And luckily for me, in this case, the judge agrees with me. Again, if grown people cannot eat or drink in a courtroom, the child is not special. The mother should have stepped out in the hall, handled her business and then returned. Then there'd have been no story and no issue.

DarqueMirror -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 4:20:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go Now, as she is of the people, it is her court, not that of the judge, now isn't it? Nope, it sure isn't. That is a logical fallacy you're trying to claim based on how the country works. By your (false) logic, I could dash on in to the White House and invite myself to breakfast with the O's. I can't do that, however, without being tackled or shot by secret service agents. However, our government is by the people, for the people. And I'm the people. Yet I'm the people who'd get my ass kicked if I tried to breach the White House uninvited.

searching4mysir -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 4:42:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I disagree. In order to graduate, she is required to be in class. Attending class is a choice, not a requirement. Neither is graduation. She made the choice to start the class and she makes the choice whether or not to continue. There's no legal requirement of her to be there. And if I'm paying hundreds of dollars per class to be somewhere, I assure you I'd complain. In the state of KY (I'm speaking specifically of there because of the way that particular state law is written), the school cannot forbid her from bringing her infant to class and nursing him. The way that law is written, your attempt to prevent her from nursing is illegal. You could complain all you like, but there is nothing the school can do for you if she has paid her tuition and is in good standing with the school. They cannot expel her for it. If you choose to harass her as she is nursing, she can sue you and/or have you arrested.

searching4mysir -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 4:43:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir The problem is that you would disagree on "where appropriate" is, so the debate would continue. And luckily for me, in this case, the judge agrees with me. Again, if grown people cannot eat or drink in a courtroom, the child is not special. The mother should have stepped out in the hall, handled her business and then returned. Then there'd have been no story and no issue. Actually, the child IS special from a legal standpoint. There are a lot of things that children can do in public that adults cannot.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 5:10:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I disagree. In order to graduate, she is required to be in class. Attending class is a choice, not a requirement. Neither is graduation. She made the choice to start the class and she makes the choice whether or not to continue. There's no legal requirement of her to be there. And if I'm paying hundreds of dollars per class to be somewhere, I assure you I'd complain. In the state of KY (I'm speaking specifically of there because of the way that particular state law is written), the school cannot forbid her from bringing her infant to class and nursing him. The way that law is written, your attempt to prevent her from nursing is illegal. You could complain all you like, but there is nothing the school can do for you if she has paid her tuition and is in good standing with the school. They cannot expel her for it. If you choose to harass her as she is nursing, she can sue you and/or have you arrested. Yes, a school absolutely can forbid children. If they forbid children in the classroom, the lady can still express milk, but not breastfeed because there are no children allowed. Just as an employer can tell you no children allowed. It may be written funny, but the law can't force schools to allow children, nor employers to do so either.

tazzygirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 5:16:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I disagree. In order to graduate, she is required to be in class. Attending class is a choice, not a requirement. Neither is graduation. She made the choice to start the class and she makes the choice whether or not to continue. There's no legal requirement of her to be there. And if I'm paying hundreds of dollars per class to be somewhere, I assure you I'd complain. In the state of KY (I'm speaking specifically of there because of the way that particular state law is written), the school cannot forbid her from bringing her infant to class and nursing him. The way that law is written, your attempt to prevent her from nursing is illegal. You could complain all you like, but there is nothing the school can do for you if she has paid her tuition and is in good standing with the school. They cannot expel her for it. If you choose to harass her as she is nursing, she can sue you and/or have you arrested. Pennsylvania recently enacted its first law regarding breastfeeding exempting breastfeeding from criminal laws, and giving women “permission,” but not the “right,” to breastfeed. 35 P.S. § 636.2 et seq. (2007) 35 P.S. § 636.2. Declaration of policy The General Assembly finds that breastfeeding a baby is an important and basic act of nurturing that must be protected in the interests of maternal and child health and family values. § 636.3. General rule A mother shall be permitted to breastfeed her child in any location, public or private, where the mother and child are otherwise authorized to be present, irrespective of whether or not the mother’s breast is covered during or incidental to the breastfeeding. § 636.4. Freedom to breastfeed The act of breastfeeding shall not be considered: (1) Indecent exposure as defined in 18 Pa.C.S. § 3127 (relating to indecent exposure). (2) Open lewdness as defined in 18 Pa.C.S. § 5901 (relating to open lewdness). (3) Obscenity or sexual conduct as defined in 18 Pa.C.S. § 5903 (relating to obscene and other sexual materials and performances (4) A nuisance as defined in 18 Pa.C.S. § 6504 (relating to public nuisances). Pennsylvania: City of Philadelphia City Ordinance 9-1105 City Ordinance 1996 Amends Section 9-1105 of the Fair Practices Code entitled “Unlawful Public Accommodations Practice” to prohibit a breastfeeding mother from or segregate a breastfeeding mother within any public accommodation where she would otherwise be authorized to be irrespective of whether or not the nipple of the mother’s breast is covered during or incidental to breastfeeding. Cities can make the law even broader than the state. North Carolina is pretty much... in your face. In 1993, North Carolina exempted breastfeeding from the criminal statutes, and clarified that women have the right to breastfeed in public, even if there is exposure of the breast. N.C. Gen. Stat. sec. 14-190.9 § 14-190.9. Indecent exposure. (B) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a woman may breast feed in any public or private location where she is otherwise authorized to be, irrespective of whether the nipple of the mother’s breast is uncovered during or incidental to the breast feeding. http://breastfeedinglaws.uslegal.com/state-laws/ Again, people should really read about the laws before saying anything more.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 5:17:16 PM)
quote: a civics class teaching empirical standards of moral and ethical behaviour Wouldn't that be an ethics class? A civics class teaches things about how the government works and stuff like that doesn't it?

tazzygirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 5:19:35 PM)
quote: Yes, a school absolutely can forbid children. If they forbid children in the classroom, the lady can still express milk, but not breastfeed because there are no children allowed. You are right. However, they cannot deny the breast feeding mother the right to have someone bring the child to school.campus and feed the infant, or deny her the right to express milk, anywhere on campus she chooses too.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 5:27:30 PM)
Ok. If class is in session and the teacher says no kids, then no kids are allowed in the classroom. She could go to another part of the school where kids are allowed (like the cafeteria for instance) and feed her baby. Or, she can stay in the class without her child (if she really wants to) and pump milk.

tazzygirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 5:44:56 PM)
She could go to the commons and sit among the trees, no? She could go to the student union as well. Schools can restrict children in classes. I havent seen one that restricted access all school grounds. But, yes, those are her options.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 5:46:01 PM)
Absolutely. She can do any of those things, no problem. : )

TheFireWithinMe -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 6:15:38 PM)
quote: And you seem to separate it too much. While it's true that not every mom who breastfeeds is or becomes one of the type I mentioned, many do. and you know which if any are how?

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 6:30:00 PM)
quote: If class is in session and the teacher says no kids, then no kids are allowed in the classroom. Not according to the way the Kentucky law is worded. It only specifies that the mother be allowed to be there, and then further says that its illegal to interfere with her breastfeeding, so based on the wording, it would be illegal for the Prof to try stop her from bringing her child into the class to breastfeed it. The child may not be allowed in the room before nursing, and may have to leave immediately afterwards, but he can't prevent her from bringing the child into the class to breastfeed it, that would be interfering, which is prohibited. And the law further says that it trumps all other laws: "Notwithstanding any other provision of the law". And that would include those giving the school the right to set policies regarding who can and cannot be in a classroom.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 6:35:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather quote: If class is in session and the teacher says no kids, then no kids are allowed in the classroom. Not according to the way the Kentucky law is worded. It only specifies that the mother be allowed to be there, and then further says that its illegal to interfere with her breastfeeding, so based on the wording, it would be illegal for the Prof to try stop her from bringing her child into the class to breastfeed it. The child may not be allowed in the room before nursing, and may have to leave immediately afterwards, but he can't prevent her from bringing the child into the class to breastfeed it, that would be interfering, which is prohibited. And the law further says that it trumps all other laws: "Notwithstanding any other provision of the law". And that would include those giving the school the right to set policies regarding who can and cannot be in a classroom. So, employers in Kentucky have to let mothers have children with them while they work? An EMT who is on duty can take her baby with her while on an emergency run and breastfeed during it? A police officer can take her baby on runs with her in case the baby needs to feed? No, as I stated before, it may not be well-written, but no school, no employer, and no place that doesn't allow kids has to allow kids into their place of business.

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