RE: Breastfeeding In Court?

RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 12:49:25 PM)
quote: The mother isn't required to be in class. I disagree. In order to graduate, she is required to be in class. quote: Are you seriously suggesting that that law implies that mothers are entitled to bring their children to strip clubs? Or on roller coasters? Or to nuclear power plants? Or to a sexshop? Or to an adult only sauna? Or to a chemical plant? Or in a coal mine? Or in to a restricted hospital ward? Who said anything about bringing their children? quote: If the mother is required to be somewhere, the law states no one can interfere with her need to feed the infant or express milk. I think you should read the law again.

TheFireWithinMe -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 12:50:52 PM)
Okay I get it now. Geez brain is slow today.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 12:50:54 PM)
So, a policewoman on the job is entitled to bring her baby along and breastfeed? How about an EMT?

tazzygirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 12:52:15 PM)
Ummm... where did I say that?

Ishtarr -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 12:52:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Who said anything about bringing their children? Babies aren't children anymore? quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: If the mother is required to be somewhere, the law states no one can interfere with her need to feed the infant or express milk. I think you should read the law again. I didn't say anything about expressing milk. All the places a mother is allowed to be where the baby is not, she can obviously pump if she wants to. She can't, however, bring the baby to a place that prohibits the presence of babies simple because she breastfeeds.

SixMore2Go -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 12:55:06 PM)
quote: What it does say is that anyplace that the mother and child are allowed to be, they are allowed to breastfeed. No, it quite clearly does not say that. You're just being silly arguing that up is down.

tazzygirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 12:55:15 PM)
You didnt say that.... I did. So while you are snipping at me, you are snipping at the wrong person. The law expressly states both options. Hopefully, a mother would have better sense than to take her baby into a place that is a potential danger... but the employer is still required to allow her time to express milk.

Ishtarr -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 1:01:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl You didnt say that.... I did. So while you are snipping at me, you are snipping at the wrong person. The law expressly states both options. Hopefully, a mother would have better sense than to take her baby into a place that is a potential danger... but the employer is still required to all her time to express milk. My apologies if I misunderstood. And yes, I agree that the employer is required to allow her time to express milk. I've actually been in a somewhat similar situation, though not in the US. When I got pregnant, I worked in a place that's unsafe for breastfeeding mothers because of chemicals being captured in the milk. I stayed home (payed) for 9 months breastfeeding, which is the maximum time allowed by Belgian law. I breastfed on demand until the morning that I started work again. Because of this, my breast basically had to go "cold turkey" from one moment to the next, and I spend the first two weeks at work getting extra legal breaks to pump (which had to be thrown away) to slowly build down milk production.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 1:12:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx They don't allow children in the classroom. I don't know what else to tell you. ETA: he is still teaching. The law I quoted says nothing about whether or not children are allowed there, only that if the mother is allowed there she can either breastfeed or pump. If he could get away with banning her child (by saying no children in the classroom), then she would have every legal right to open her blouse, hook up both breasts to a pump, and pump during his class according to the way that law is written. This is correct.

Alecta -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 1:27:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: Well, what the action/decision conveys is basically "ok, screw whatever you guys are doing over there, it's not important enough for me to even pretend to be interested in... I'm going to sit in this corner and do something that's only convenient to me, even though it might cause a disturbance" Actually no. What it conveys is "Oh-oh, the kid is hungry, I had better take care of that quickly and quietly with the minimum of fuss and bother so he won't bother or disturb anybody." Rather than disrespect, in this particular case it shows just the opposite, it shows respect. Care to try again? Actually I don't see what you said as contradictory to my point, you've basically rehashed that her convenience to her task (feeding) is way above her respect for whatever else was going on in the Courtroom. As to "might cause a disturbance", I mentioned it because feeding a child, especially a sick one, is no guarantee he won't fuss. If she left the room to breastfeed or if she'd asked for permission, these are actions that showed she was trying to be respectful. The question is not whether or not she should have fed the child, yes, she should. It's what she could have done to go about it, it's about whether or not she was mindful of where she was. It would have been ridiculous to cite her for breastfeeding in the hallway just outside the Courtroom. It would have been ridiculous to tell her she is not allowed to breastfeed her child at all. It would be ridiculous to cite her for leaving the room with or without permission to fed her child. But this does not mean she had the free pass to be rude by 1. not excusing herself from the room or 2. not asking. Do we think it is rude if someone comes in your house, doesn't ask if they should take their shoes off and avail themselves of any food and beverage they see? It is their right to eat and drink, use the facilities, etc. But shouldn't they ask you first so you can tell them what is appropriate or at least be aware? It's really the same in this instance.

Alecta -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 1:36:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agirl In THAT court, with THAT judge, it had a bad outcome. The mother could well have looked like a selfish middle finger-thrower if she had been informed, and stood like a bolshy cow declaring her right to do whatever she wants. But that wasn't the case, according to reports from both sides. By not asking and proceeding to do whatever she liked she's being the same cow, just less noisy. quote: She was asked a facetious question which really only had one answer. That was silly of the judge to begin with. There are ways and ways of avoiding conflict and strife and one hopes our judges would be well versed and practised at it considering they deal with people in less than the best situations. At that point where the Judge was involved it was no longer a matter of conflict, it had evolved by that point to a matter of example. In a Judge's shoes in that room, turning a blind eye to her unsanctioned actions is in itself a professional quandary. If he turned a blind eye to her he would have to turn a blind eye to anyone who can rub two words together to compare whatever other infractions they're doing to the breastfeeding. The guy on the docket for public urination for example would get off scott free. He didn't punish her, he didn't blame her for feeding her child, he just made a point of his displeasure at her lack of respect.

SixMore2Go -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 1:39:23 PM)
quote: Do we think it is rude if someone comes in your house, doesn't ask if they should take their shoes off and avail themselves of any food and beverage they see? It is their right to eat and drink, use the facilities, etc. But shouldn't they ask you first so you can tell them what is appropriate or at least be aware? It's really the same in this instance. Ah, but it isn't the same thing at all me dear, you see, when you come to my house, you are in my house. But the courthouse is hers, it is the people's court established to administer the people's justice according to the people's laws as enacted by the people's representatives chosen by the people. Now, as she is of the people, it is her court, not that of the judge, now isn't it?

Alecta -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 1:44:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go quote: Do we think it is rude if someone comes in your house, doesn't ask if they should take their shoes off and avail themselves of any food and beverage they see? It is their right to eat and drink, use the facilities, etc. But shouldn't they ask you first so you can tell them what is appropriate or at least be aware? It's really the same in this instance. Ah, but it isn't the same thing at all me dear, you see, when you come to my house, you are in my house. But the courthouse is hers, it is the people's court established to administer the people's justice according to the people's laws as enacted by the people's representatives chosen by the people. Now, as she is of the people, it is her court, not that of the judge, now isn't it? The Courthouse does not belong to the Judge, but the Courtroom that the Judge is in session presiding over, that is his; the operative being "in session". If she'd done so in an empty Courtroom, or one not in use, it would not have mattered.

SixMore2Go -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 1:48:53 PM)
Well I'm of the opinion that you're wrong. Perhaps you should take a civics class to learn the theory behind what is, then you might see that indeed what is is not what was intended. And I'm still waiting for a logical and reasonable explanation of how it shows disrespect.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 2:49:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go quote: Do we think it is rude if someone comes in your house, doesn't ask if they should take their shoes off and avail themselves of any food and beverage they see? It is their right to eat and drink, use the facilities, etc. But shouldn't they ask you first so you can tell them what is appropriate or at least be aware? It's really the same in this instance. Ah, but it isn't the same thing at all me dear, you see, when you come to my house, you are in my house. But the courthouse is hers, it is the people's court established to administer the people's justice according to the people's laws as enacted by the people's representatives chosen by the people. Now, as she is of the people, it is her court, not that of the judge, now isn't it? A judge is in charge of his/her courtroom and decides what is or is not appropriate (according to the law) They do have great discretion in how they choose to run their courtroom. The people brought in front of him/her? Not so much. They basically have to show up, behave in the required manner and do what the judge tells them.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 2:53:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go Well I'm of the opinion that you're wrong. Perhaps you should take a civics class to learn the theory behind what is, then you might see that indeed what is is not what was intended. And I'm still waiting for a logical and reasonable explanation of how it shows disrespect. Actually, you've been given reasonable and logical explanations. You chose to dismiss them.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 3:01:01 PM)
Or he doesn't find them logical or reasonable. I suggest that as an option mostly because I don't really. I find them mostly emotional and based on speculation that is frankly, a real reach.

tazzygirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 3:06:41 PM)
~FR While we have been talking about where a baby cannot go with its mother, it might surprise people to learn that in New York, a breastfeeding infant can even go to jail with its mother up until the age of one. http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=14389 State by State laws. Might be informative reading for some.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 3:06:42 PM)
We're all entitled to our own opinion. Unless we're in a courtroom...in which case we're entitled to the judge's opinion. Whether we like it or not.

Alecta -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 3:07:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go Well I'm of the opinion that you're wrong. Perhaps you should take a civics class to learn the theory behind what is, then you might see that indeed what is is not what was intended. Actions and intentions do not equate... causing the death of another without intent is still causing the death of another, for example. Hurting someone's feelings unintentionally does not magically unhurt them. I'm a little confused as to the suggestion of civics lessons. I was under the impression that I'm being objected to as being too rigid versus your views, so wouldn't a civics class teaching empirical standards of moral and ethical behaviour only be contributing to my end of the spectrum?

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