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The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 9:34:35 AM   
Proprietrix


Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline

This is a spin-off of Calandra's "balanced view of collars" thread. My opinion here isn't so much about collars, but about newcomers to the scene. One thing the OP stated was:

When new people (for the rest of this post, assume I'm speaking of both Dominant and submissive power identities) come onto the scene, they are full of questions, and often find that sorting out how and where kink fits into their life takes a confusing turn when they begin reading the majority of resources out there. So many posters to newsgroups and bulletin boards have the tendency to state things as a "fact" rather than as one "option" or "opinion" because in their lives what they are stating IS a fact. This tendency then leads to strife when someone else posts other options or viewpoints. All the while, newbies are watching the dialogue and getting more and more confused.



Ok, call me a cold-hearted uncaring bitch, but I really don't have an overwhelming amount of sympathy for newbies. Sure, I like to see people get educated in anything new they are undertaking. It's always nice to see people learning and growing. And yes, most everyone can benefit from learning things like safety, new opinions, diverse perspectives, and tricks of the trade.
But....
Newcomers are only different from the more seasoned in one way - they lack "time". They are still humans. They are still adults. They still think for themselves.

They should have the common sense to form their own conclusions and not take any one person's word as gospel. This is a lesson they should have learned a long time ago in life. They should have the common sense to realize that if 30 different people have 30 different views, there might not be a truism. If they hear 100 different definitions of the meaning of a collar, they might get a clue that it varies from person to person.

We're not dealing with grammar school children here. Just like politics, religion, controversial social issues, the environment, and *life* in general, everyone is going to have a different point of view. They should know that already because they've been living in society in general.

If a newcomer is experiencing strife because they are receiving differing viewpoints on BDSM, my advice is for them to reflect back on every other aspect of their life and determine whether or not differing view points in general cause the same strife within. Do they get confused and bewildered when people don't agree on politics? Do they feel overwhelmed and mixed-up when people have varying opinions on parenting? Do they experience doubt, conflict, and turmoil in all areas of life in which people aren't just sitting around nodding their heads agreeing with one another?
If so, they might have some internal issues they need to work through.
If not, why do they expect anything different from real life opinions here in the BDSM realm?

I have a difficult time taking it as my personal responsibility, (or passing on the responsibility to everyone who has some kind of BDSM involvement), to make it abundently clear that every word that comes out of my mouth is strictly based on my personal point of view. I don't do it when discussing politics, philosophy or spirituality. Why should I be expected to do it here?


_____________________________

IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 9:53:34 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix


This is a spin-off of Calandra's "balanced view of collars" thread. My opinion here isn't so much about collars, but about newcomers to the scene. One thing the OP stated was:

When new people (for the rest of this post, assume I'm speaking of both Dominant and submissive power identities) come onto the scene, they are full of questions, and often find that sorting out how and where kink fits into their life takes a confusing turn when they begin reading the majority of resources out there. So many posters to newsgroups and bulletin boards have the tendency to state things as a "fact" rather than as one "option" or "opinion" because in their lives what they are stating IS a fact. This tendency then leads to strife when someone else posts other options or viewpoints. All the while, newbies are watching the dialogue and getting more and more confused.



Ok, call me a cold-hearted uncaring bitch, but I really don't have an overwhelming amount of sympathy for newbies. Sure, I like to see people get educated in anything new they are undertaking. It's always nice to see people learning and growing. And yes, most everyone can benefit from learning things like safety, new opinions, diverse perspectives, and tricks of the trade.
But....
Newcomers are only different from the more seasoned in one way - they lack "time". They are still humans. They are still adults. They still think for themselves.

They should have the common sense to form their own conclusions and not take any one person's word as gospel. This is a lesson they should have learned a long time ago in life. They should have the common sense to realize that if 30 different people have 30 different views, there might not be a truism. If they hear 100 different definitions of the meaning of a collar, they might get a clue that it varies from person to person.

We're not dealing with grammar school children here. Just like politics, religion, controversial social issues, the environment, and *life* in general, everyone is going to have a different point of view. They should know that already because they've been living in society in general.

If a newcomer is experiencing strife because they are receiving differing viewpoints on BDSM, my advice is for them to reflect back on every other aspect of their life and determine whether or not differing view points in general cause the same strife within. Do they get confused and bewildered when people don't agree on politics? Do they feel overwhelmed and mixed-up when people have varying opinions on parenting? Do they experience doubt, conflict, and turmoil in all areas of life in which people aren't just sitting around nodding their heads agreeing with one another?
If so, they might have some internal issues they need to work through.
If not, why do they expect anything different from real life opinions here in the BDSM realm?

I have a difficult time taking it as my personal responsibility, (or passing on the responsibility to everyone who has some kind of BDSM involvement), to make it abundently clear that every word that comes out of my mouth is strictly based on my personal point of view. I don't do it when discussing politics, philosophy or spirituality. Why should I be expected to do it here?



i agree.  i have a fault in that i tend to rescue, and empath, without thinking it through first.  Stress management is a goal of mine, and i am trying to work on the rescuing fault as it can be very stressful for me.
 
i also remind myself W/we never know the truth about A/anyone here merely from  T/their posts or profiles.  i cannot get rid of the picture of the 40 year old beer-guzzling HNG masquarding a Dom or submissive because he likes to stir the pot.
 
i'm not totally dim; i was once asked to serve as counsel to a "home for abused subbies and slaves" and refused on a dime.
 
candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 5/27/2006 10:48:04 AM >

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 10:15:22 AM   
artglfr


Posts: 235
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
Very well put. 

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Docents_of_Museum/

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 10:20:20 AM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
Well said, Proprietrix

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Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

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Profile   Post #: 4
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 10:46:14 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
 I can't offer that level of security to my own children , let alone other adults.

It's not THAT difficult to work out what is a fact and what is an opinion or option. There's masses of information of every flavour and bias.......at some point you have to decide what makes sense to YOU or appeals to you.

If George's Dad says that tennis is for wimps, should you stop playing tennis?




(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 11:12:56 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
Proprietrix, I understand what you are saying and I think I agree with you in that, no it is not yours nor anyone else's responsibility to take care of the poor little newbies. It reminds me of an old farmer/hillbilly saying I have heard....something about "if you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch" ....MY only issue is when I see or hear about, the frantic feeding frenzy of a young 18-early twenties pretty young sub/slave by a bunch of much older "experienced Domme" wanting to warn them, protect them, etc. to very obviously try and lure them into thinking that "They" of course are not like those "other" predators and will teach and guide them and ultimately end up being the very type they said they were protecting said innocent from. While I agree, yes, absolutely the newbie should be a responsible adult with a brain to make correct choices and protect themselves, and shame on them for being an idiot if they didn't. I have a much bigger shame on "You" for the wanker Doms/Dominas that use that ploy of protecting and mentoring. If they truely want to be a respected mentor then they should sponsor  something that helps provide them information and the chance to communicate with one another and keep their play to someone older and more sure of their lifestyle choices.
Now I know I am going to catch hell from both sides. I do know that there are very young people that really have their heads together and are capable of making good life choices. I do know that not all "older" Doms/Dominas are predators and are for the most part sincere and good people. I also know of a few that honestly are doing exactly what they said they would do (remembering a thread about ShiftedJewel mentoring someone, I admire her for that) I also don't think that everyone needs to mentor or volunteer wether it be within this lifestyle or in our vanilla community. All I am saying is that if it were my daughter exploring this lifestyle as a sub/slave all new and unsure I would be highly suspicous of some 45 year old guy approaching her that said he had 25 years experience and would "mentor" her. I would encourage her to find others that were more near her situation and also more experienced sub/slaves to learn from instead. THEN, if as in Shifted's case (if I remember correctly), the submissive met a Dom/Domina that they had come to respect and admire, and approached Them asking for mentoring, I think that is a very different situation. That shows a sub/slave making a more informed choice.
I guess what I am trying to say is that the other thing just reminds me too much of the nasty evil pimp hanging out at the bus stop in Hollywood waiting for the ignorant naive16 year old girl from Iowa to step off the bus........"come here little girl, daddy will take care of you" and it makes me feel spewy.

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 1:23:24 PM   
TeeGO


Posts: 451
Joined: 12/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix


This is a spin-off of Calandra's "balanced view of collars" thread. My opinion here isn't so much about collars, but about newcomers to the scene. One thing the OP stated was:

When new people (for the rest of this post, assume I'm speaking of both Dominant and submissive power identities) come onto the scene, they are full of questions, and often find that sorting out how and where kink fits into their life takes a confusing turn when they begin reading the majority of resources out there. So many posters to newsgroups and bulletin boards have the tendency to state things as a "fact" rather than as one "option" or "opinion" because in their lives what they are stating IS a fact. This tendency then leads to strife when someone else posts other options or viewpoints. All the while, newbies are watching the dialogue and getting more and more confused.



Ok, call me a cold-hearted uncaring bitch, but I really don't have an overwhelming amount of sympathy for newbies. Sure, I like to see people get educated in anything new they are undertaking. It's always nice to see people learning and growing. And yes, most everyone can benefit from learning things like safety, new opinions, diverse perspectives, and tricks of the trade.
But....
Newcomers are only different from the more seasoned in one way - they lack "time". They are still humans. They are still adults. They still think for themselves.

They should have the common sense to form their own conclusions and not take any one person's word as gospel. This is a lesson they should have learned a long time ago in life. They should have the common sense to realize that if 30 different people have 30 different views, there might not be a truism. If they hear 100 different definitions of the meaning of a collar, they might get a clue that it varies from person to person.

We're not dealing with grammar school children here. Just like politics, religion, controversial social issues, the environment, and *life* in general, everyone is going to have a different point of view. They should know that already because they've been living in society in general.

If a newcomer is experiencing strife because they are receiving differing viewpoints on BDSM, my advice is for them to reflect back on every other aspect of their life and determine whether or not differing view points in general cause the same strife within. Do they get confused and bewildered when people don't agree on politics? Do they feel overwhelmed and mixed-up when people have varying opinions on parenting? Do they experience doubt, conflict, and turmoil in all areas of life in which people aren't just sitting around nodding their heads agreeing with one another?
If so, they might have some internal issues they need to work through.
If not, why do they expect anything different from real life opinions here in the BDSM realm?

I have a difficult time taking it as my personal responsibility, (or passing on the responsibility to everyone who has some kind of BDSM involvement), to make it abundently clear that every word that comes out of my mouth is strictly based on my personal point of view. I don't do it when discussing politics, philosophy or spirituality. Why should I be expected to do it here?


As a newbie myself I agree with you.

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 1:29:23 PM   
SmokeyM


Posts: 120
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
The one thing great about this lifestyle is the fact that its what we enjoy and is to our own tastes. Of course finding another that is into the same kind of thing may take some weeding out but it can be done.
 
-Smokey

(in reply to TeeGO)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 1:34:54 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

If George's Dad says that tennis is for wimps, should you stop playing tennis?



George's Dad said that????  Oh man...  I'll never play it again....

Oh well...  I guess I'll just take up sodomy to be more like him.

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 1:39:07 PM   
JazzDaddy


Posts: 114
Joined: 12/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Proprietrix, I understand what you are saying and I think I agree with you in that, no it is not yours nor anyone else's responsibility to take care of the poor little newbies. It reminds me of an old farmer/hillbilly saying I have heard....something about "if you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch" ....MY only issue is when I see or hear about, the frantic feeding frenzy of a young 18-early twenties pretty young sub/slave by a bunch of much older "experienced Domme" wanting to warn them, protect them, etc. to very obviously try and lure them into thinking that "They" of course are not like those "other" predators and will teach and guide them and ultimately end up being the very type they said they were protecting said innocent from. While I agree, yes, absolutely the newbie should be a responsible adult with a brain to make correct choices and protect themselves, and shame on them for being an idiot if they didn't. I have a much bigger shame on "You" for the wanker Doms/Dominas that use that ploy of protecting and mentoring. If they truely want to be a respected mentor then they should sponsor  something that helps provide them information and the chance to communicate with one another and keep their play to someone older and more sure of their lifestyle choices.
Now I know I am going to catch hell from both sides. I do know that there are very young people that really have their heads together and are capable of making good life choices. I do know that not all "older" Doms/Dominas are predators and are for the most part sincere and good people. I also know of a few that honestly are doing exactly what they said they would do (remembering a thread about ShiftedJewel mentoring someone, I admire her for that) I also don't think that everyone needs to mentor or volunteer wether it be within this lifestyle or in our vanilla community. All I am saying is that if it were my daughter exploring this lifestyle as a sub/slave all new and unsure I would be highly suspicous of some 45 year old guy approaching her that said he had 25 years experience and would "mentor" her. I would encourage her to find others that were more near her situation and also more experienced sub/slaves to learn from instead. THEN, if as in Shifted's case (if I remember correctly), the submissive met a Dom/Domina that they had come to respect and admire, and approached Them asking for mentoring, I think that is a very different situation. That shows a sub/slave making a more informed choice.
I guess what I am trying to say is that the other thing just reminds me too much of the nasty evil pimp hanging out at the bus stop in Hollywood waiting for the ignorant naive16 year old girl from Iowa to step off the bus........"come here little girl, daddy will take care of you" and it makes me feel spewy.



Great post!

As an older newbie on here, I completely agree with your point. I think the advantage I have in being older is a better 'bullshit radar system' than someone who is much younger and hasn't had enough life experience yet.

_____________________________

“Well, if you find a note tonight that sounds good, play the same damn note every night!”

Count Basie

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 1:40:08 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

We're not dealing with grammar school children here.



Sometimes I think we are....

But well said.  As a newbie as well, I have to say, sometimes it is confusing, but as soon as you realize that it's, like you said, like any other thing in life, and apply common sense, it gets easier.

And if you choose to not apply common sense, you only prove Darwin right.  "No, all the others are evil.  I'm the only true Dom.  Come home with me."

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 1:40:34 PM   
dogobedience


Posts: 536
Joined: 3/30/2006
Status: offline
Sorry,I did not read ALL replies yet. Girls If you are new read ALL of sasshay's profile and journals........if you do not...assume you are here just for play and to be ripped of!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To not INVEST time in learning about this lifestyle BEFORE BELIEVING THE GRAND PUBA  WHO TAKES YOU IS AN ACT OF ONE WHO IS HOPING TO GET LUCKY......................GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!! 

_____________________________

I start and/or reply to posts to further my abilities and share my experiences in this fantastic lifestyle.

I hope I am an intellectual instigator, making people think and or laugh and nothing more.

Tiger, proud owner of kali aka Tigerproperty

(in reply to SmokeyM)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 1:50:17 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline
I fully agree with you Propietrix...I am consistent in when I have said..we are all adults not children to be placed in cotton..however..I also agree with LaTigresse as well in so far as if newbie is young of age ie:18-25 then maybe with less of lifes lessons learned in general then a bit of protectiveness should wend its way toward them.....be well...from this wittle confused newbie...Tempting

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 1:51:12 PM   
HoosierScorpio


Posts: 164
Status: offline
Some times people do get facts and opinions a bet confused when they are talking about something they know about. All I can say is this take in what some one advice might be and then think about it. Once you have done that then figure out what is best for you and can it work for you. There are some basic principles here how people can get hurt if they do not have a strong knowledge and understand something that could either hurt you or worse. Basic knowledge in something is very important so you do not end up getting hurt in this lifestyle or any thing you do. The fact is what we do is misunderstood by so many and because they do not understand they condemned. If you do not have the understanding about the lifestyle and key points you need to understand how you can tell when to use you safe word or see some one who is a player. My opinion is this seeks out groups of real people who live this lifestyle and have them teach you the right way for you will be taken by some one who is a player or out for sex.  This is about growing and understanding what you do so you can live this lifestyle to the fullest existent you can and be happy. So many get hurt emotionally and physical because they do not have basic understand about the lifestyle they want to live it.  This is a growing process and you will never understand every thing complete about the lifestyle. In the fames words of Spiderman with Great Powers Comes Responsibilities. We have the responsibility to help those to learn this lifestyle to the best of our abilities and this is my opinion.

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 2:26:34 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

If George's Dad says that tennis is for wimps, should you stop playing tennis?



George's Dad said that????  Oh man...  I'll never play it again....

Oh well...  I guess I'll just take up sodomy to be more like him.

Yours,


benji


zakly.....sodomy isn't for wimps.......LOL

Regards, agirl

(in reply to gooddogbenji)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 2:56:56 PM   
sharainks


Posts: 499
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline
I think that some submissives get the idea that because they've newly discovered that trait in themselves they then begin to believe that they should listen to what other more experienced people think. Thats simply because they don't know for themselves what they want yet.

Then they come to a place like this and read, or they go to groups with their differing views and start getting more confused.  The best thing a newbie can do is to remember to bring their intellect and street smarts with them into the lifestyle.  They will need them.

They also need to keep in mind what appealed to them initially and build on that instead of adopting other's views.

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 3:01:44 PM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline
I am a newbie and will be forever because i learn new things everyday.  At the same time just cause someone says it is a real rush to jump off the bridge just before the train hits you doesn't mean i am looking for train tracks.  Maybe my age, but even at  21 i was smart enough not to fall for some if not most of the tricks i have heard.  And if that means i need to help a newer newbie along then so be it i am going to try to help them with the best info i have and then let them make the adult decision that they should be able to make if they are here in this wild wonderful world.   Not a babysitter a referral agent only lol.

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 3:05:49 PM   
spankmepink11


Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline
Great thread Proprietrix

(in reply to sharainks)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: The poor little confused newbies - 5/27/2006 3:24:24 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
There is a lot to be said for common sense and personal responsibility within any person embarking on a new endeavour in life.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to spankmepink11)
Profile   Post #: 19
Speaking of Adults w/ Common sense... - 5/27/2006 4:21:53 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dogobedience
Sorry,I did not read ALL replies yet. Girls If you are new read ALL of sasshay's profile and journals........if you do not...assume you are here just for play and to be ripped of!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To not INVEST time in learning about this lifestyle BEFORE BELIEVING THE GRAND PUBA  WHO TAKES YOU IS AN ACT OF ONE WHO IS HOPING TO GET LUCKY...........
For heaven's sake girls and boys please read sashay's profile so dogobedience can stop selling her here on the forums repeatedly.  Apparently she is selling common sense on her profile and if you don't/can't think of how to proceed when attempting a relationship in your hearts/minds, than better read and follow step by step.     M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 5/27/2006 4:23:21 PM >


_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to dogobedience)
Profile   Post #: 20
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