Freedom or Security ?? (Full Version)

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ashjor911 -> Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 11:28:38 AM)

what is more important to you freedom or security?

before 25-01-2011 no one in Egypt will even have the corage to put any word against "Mobarak" & now things have gone very bad there.... because of freedom.... is it like they say "freedom is not meant for ME" ??

I really really want to know what all of you feel..



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 1:31:53 PM)

There can be no freedom without security.



tazzygirl -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 3:08:28 PM)

quote:

before 25-01-2011 no one in Egypt will even have the corage to put any word against "Mobarak" & now things have gone very bad there.... because of freedom.... is it like they say "freedom is not meant for ME" ??


You believe things are going wrong because people there obtained some measure of freedom?



ashjor911 -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 3:43:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You believe things are going wrong because people there obtained some measure of freedom?


Yes, & the last Demonstrations are for The opposition of some political parties on the document approved electoral law



tazzygirl -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 3:45:18 PM)

Sadly, it is part of the process. We had our own civil war... granted not as quickly as you may be seeing these uprisings in your country. I call em growing pains.



ashjor911 -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 4:07:04 PM)

I fear that the "process" will bee a long one,



tazzygirl -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 4:22:56 PM)

I pray not for your countries sake.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 4:28:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

There can be no freedom without security.

" Those willing to give up liberty for security deserve niether and will lose both "

Are you saying Ben Franklin was incorrect or are you saying you are wiser than he was?



tj444 -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 4:54:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911
what is more important to you freedom or security?

To me personally? If given the choice,. its most definately freedom.. (as my sig line states)

.."security" also means loss of privacy, btw... which i am also against..

since you asked..



tazzygirl -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 4:57:27 PM)

If im not mistaken, there was a difference between freedom and liberty.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 5:01:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If im not mistaken, there was a difference between freedom and liberty.

We've had that stripped from us as well.



ashjor911 -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 5:01:17 PM)

tj444,
I meant by Security (national Security) " the saftey of the countery" & not going into civil war.

It means alot to us, to be able to walk down the street without the fear of a thug will pounce from any corner.



tj444 -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 5:22:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911
tj444,
I meant by Security (national Security) " the saftey of the countery" & not going into civil war.

It means alot to us, to be able to walk down the street without the fear of a thug will pounce from any corner.

you asked a very general question in a forum where most dont live in your country, my perspectives are my own based on where i live and my experiences living here..

There are many countries in the world where i would not want to live and so i would not move to them.. I would only move to a country where i felt i had more freedoms than i do now..

I had a relative that left Germany as soon as she could which was right after WWII ended.. she left her family to start a new life in a new country.. perhaps that is what you should consider also doing..



Lucylastic -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 6:26:27 PM)

seeing alll the wonderful candidates discussing the NATIONAL SECURITY DEBATE
If you are watching and not scared shitless at the blatant lies and utter bullshit, and misunderstanding,coming out of their mouths,  you  bloody welll should be! what a bunch of utter dicks
Huntsman and Paul top of the crowd in a good way.
what utter balls "in one year theborder will be secure and shut down"
When Paul is right, you gotta know the rest of the bunch is crapppppp




erieangel -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 6:28:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

There can be no freedom without security.


And as we have been seeing, a police state allows for very little freedom.



stellauk -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 6:58:32 PM)

Mine is not a popular opinion.. as a sort of disclaimer.

This is why it was such a grave mistake to execute Saddam Hussein. That he was a dictator I have no doubt. But you try running a country where different people are only too willing to kill each other on a whim without being a dictator.

Nor have I got any doubts that Colonel Gaddafi is a dictator. Or Fidel Castro. How many years in power?

Take another example, the former USSR and now what is Russia, a place which has recently passed a law legislating that gays don't exist.

If you think I like authoritarianism or totalitarianism you're mistaken. I actively support sites like United4Iran. Hell, I'd even love to see the US come in and wipe out Ahmadinejad and all the nutty Iranian clerics in one fell swoop but I also know that being the only official Shiite Islamic nation the consequences would be disastrous for the US, if not the rest of the world.

Actually I am all for freedom and liberty, but if your freedom comes only with the need to oppress someone else, then it isn't freedom.

That is where I personally stand on this issue.



Termyn8or -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 7:09:24 PM)

FR

Your right lies in your might.

Your own, not someone else's. Sometimes it is physical, better weapons or sometimes, and somtimes it is brains. But if someone "gives" you your freedom you don't really have it, you owe it to them.

The whole idea sucks even if they are honest. Let's say you hire a hitman, well when he finds the mark they offer him more money and now you are the mark. And then they come back and you get a chance to outbid your enemy. So this guy is going to just stop over yor house and this other guy's and collect money. Maybe it'll be a weekend thing. Maybe the three of you can get together. Remember the contract - you each have to keep outbidding the other, or else. Eventually your "contractor" retires and neither one of you has the money for a gun even, let alone to sue him. Yeah, I could see that lawsuit now. "Let's see here, - you hired this Man top kill this Man and he hired him subsequently hired him to kill you, do I understand this correctly ? "

Now this would make for some really good TV, which is probably why it hadly ever hapens in real life.

But the point is, if you ain't tough enough and get into the wrong place at the wrong time you die. That's it. So what that in England there is a microscope for every three inches of your body, it still is not going to work. Even with technology, although they have madfe great strides in wiretapping.

Look, we got damnear no freedom, do we have security ? Fuck no. You need peper spray, alarm systems, guns, dogs, bars on the windows. If we traded they renegged.

T^T



erieangel -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 7:17:55 PM)

You know what I want--freedom from the growing, invasive security of this country.



kdsub -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/22/2011 9:08:10 PM)

I think it depends on how the security is affecting your life . Security in itself is not good or bad. The same can be said for freedom. For instance if your freedom adversely affects someone else’s freedom then whose freedom is most important. The same with security.

So It comes down to the majority again. If the security is stifling the majorities freedoms enough that they feel they must put themselves and their families at risk to through it off…Then freedom is more important.

Just think long and hard about what you will do with your new found freedoms because it is very easy to turn freedom to oppression of those you do not agree with.

Butch



MedicineMan -> RE: Freedom or Security ?? (11/23/2011 12:42:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

It means alot to us, to be able to walk down the street without the fear of a thug will pounce from any corner.



I am pretty confident that I can deal with thugs pouncing at me, unless these thugs have badges (well, I can't match the resources of the state). I choose freedom, and I completely agree with Ron Paul (I assume this thread has been inspired by the debate).



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