RE: Is BDSM a choice? (Full Version)

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MrBukani -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/25/2011 12:21:56 PM)

In reply to switch I did say "I dont wanna compare bdsm to an addiction nor a disease"
You didnt read the post perhaps.
But I think you want to designate anything I say, as non relevant.
It's all choice to you and genes have nothing to do with personality trades.
That is how you see it, right?

BTW thanks for everybodies input, I learned some interesting things wich make me think. You as wel switchblademoi. It's not that I've made up my mind yet and any comments will still be most welcome.




stellauk -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/25/2011 3:04:35 PM)

I feel that all this is somehow comes from our social conditioning and that there's a direct relationship between how we relate to others in BDSM and our experiences of being potty trained and toilet trained. You know? I think it's something Freud or Jung touched on in their works? Some of us are orally-fixated, while others have this anal fixation. Maybe the ability to hold a butt plug between your cheeks is directly related to that power trip when you were just a couple of years old and could hold off from doing a 'jobby' long enough to frustrate your mother and win a power trip just to assert yourself.

You know? It might have been the same time when you thought it was amusing to drop your guts against the moulded plastic of the potty with such sudden force that it surprised the cat, which would shoot off quite scared while you giggled uncontrollably at the effect. It's something they use in drama school when they're training drama students all about posture by getting them to 'squeeze their lemons' (imagine walking round with a typical sized lemon squashed between your butt cheeks) which also might come from that time. Indeed you can come across those who by adulthood have managed to develop their anal abilities so well that if you were 'fig' and shove a bit of fresh ginger root up there in next to no time you'd get back something which resembles that shrivelled, wrinkly old parsnip you find when you're cleaning out the vegetable tray (Vegemite stains optional).

I think the other obsession we develop at the time is one to do with our genitalia, and free of the Pampers maybe for some precocious child-like curiosity again causes those tiny hands to wander and 'play' which not only explains the extended connotation of the word in BDSM but also the humour of generations of pubescent would be guitarists when they come across Bert Weedon's 'Play With Yourself In A Day' book on chords and guitar playing.

Coming to sites like these you don't have to look too hard to see the connections - people dressing up, people not dressing up but letting it all hang out, people showing off their 'norty bits' to all and sundry, people showing off their toy collection, and all the different personas seemingly taken from the fairy stories - Princess, Goddess, Wolf, Bear, Lord, Lady, though I'll admit I've yet to find a Wicked Stepmother.

Some go much deeper into the regression than others it would seem, needing to call others by rude names, throwing a wobbly when they don't get their own way. Maybe you can be forgiven if you have images of some sat there in front of their laptops with arms tightly folded, sulking, sucking their thumbs, or even flinging the laptop across the room and rolling around on the floor arms and legs flailing when things don't turn out as they expect.

Jokes aside, I feel that there's more than a grain of truth in all this. That what we experience early in our childhoods remains with us to the grave, it shapes our thinking and our attitudes, and we are, after all, creatures of habit living lives developed over years of complex cycles of action, reaction, interaction, and development.

The thinking, ritualism, symbolism and attitudes may be similar, but being adults with different needs, wants, desires and such the payoffs are so much different because we are adults.

I for one firmly believe that the roots of much of our behaviour lie in the Life Script we developed in childhood so extensively defined and described by Berne in his revision of Freud's ego states and work on Transactional Analysis. The deeper you go into that the more individual your beliefs because you come up against stuff like reincarnation, behaviour modelling, the effects our parents have on our lives, culture, anthropology and psychology.

Suffice to say I feel that it is a predisposition which may or may not be triggered by events in actual relationships or indeed, in the way we ourselves respond to or internalize some of the experiences we go through in life.




Ninebelowzero -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/25/2011 4:23:30 PM)

Is BDSM a choice?

No. It's a four letter acronym.

Sorry had beer.




kalikshama -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/25/2011 6:14:20 PM)

quote:

I believe in choice ultimately, but a predisposition can be very strong.

Now that you're involved in BDSM can you still say no? Is it still a choice for you? Would you be happy in a life without any BDSM?


Pain makes my pussy wet; vanilla sex does not. Don't see how that's a choice.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/25/2011 10:36:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Is BDSM hereditary, genetic or just a preference?


It has to do with (and I've actually done college level work on this) vegetable eaters.

Vegetable eaters (non meat eaters, to be specific) are more attuned to the BDSM lifestyle.

It's a protein thing.

It may be sad...but it's science.




promoman -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/26/2011 6:26:36 AM)

I think you either like it or you don't. With me it was an experience with an older woman who enjoyed playing in this environment. I simply took to it.




LanceHughes -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/26/2011 7:04:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

~FR~

I think, mostly, submission is a choice. Look at all the submissives that are alphas outside of their relationships...

I think maso/sado stuff is hardwired.

QFT (have not read whole string)
quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a
I don't think its any of those things... its an orientation for me, just like being a dyke is... not something I chose or a preference...

QFT (have not read whole string)

A different thread pointed to the evolutionary benefit to having gays "pop up" (pun intended, you pervs.)  The benefit was to "hold down" the population growth in closely related branches of the family tree.  I'm a pretty good example - I have 5 nieces, no nephews.  I have 6 first cousins, of which only one is male.... so where's the benefit to my not having kids?  Well, the 2 cousins on my Mother's side have between them 14 or 15 children.  YIKES!  I wonder how many of those boys are going to turn out to be gay?  Most of those 1st cousins, once removed are in college right now.

Also, pretty sure my Dad was gay (and a heavy, heavy alcoholic to ease the pain of being gay in the 50s)

So, WTF does that all have to do with the OP?  Simple - I was in a study (and later, help administered it) which was looking for BDSM "differences" against the general public.  Only two things found: the average IQ of the BDSMers was one standard deviation above that "famous" number 100.  AND, there was a higher measure of "anti-authority-ness" measure.  ALSO, informally, anedotal info as to both taking higher physical risk (X-sports, car racing, diving, etc.) AND plenty of bi-polar disease was self reported.

Put those traits together and et viola - a perfect set of personality traits to:
1) figure out solutions to the problem at hand
2) implement said solutions against authority
3) be willing to take the physical risks necessary
4) a dose of mania to make sure people follow your ideas.  (Manic bi-polars are some of the most charismatic people you'll ever find.)  NOTE! Submissives CAN have all these traits; they need not be the leader for implementation.  Maybe (moral and physical) support for the leader....

Look at Alexander the Great - add in "ain't got no time to settle down, but sure like that boy at my side for sex."

Woo-who !!!

Submission: probably a choice.  In our modern day, might be relief after being the everyday Alpha at work.  I sure do like those CEOs and CFOs that get home and strip, stripping off cares of business with their clothes.




Ninebelowzero -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/26/2011 7:18:02 AM)

I was in a study (and later, help administered it) which was looking for BDSM "differences" against the general public. Only two things found: the average IQ of the BDSMers was one standard deviation above that "famous" number 100. AND, there was a higher measure of "anti-authority-ness" measure. ALSO, informally, anedotal info as to both taking higher physical risk (X-sports, car racing, diving, etc.) AND plenty of bi-polar disease was self reported.

I'll go with this as a good a description of myself as possible but I'm never going to be dominant with a woman but on the rugby pitch I was a total sadist. To the point where I got a hard on after breaking someone's leg deliberately. So which is the compensation, me being subbie for being a complete twat in r/l or me being a twat for being naturally subbie?




CBTinDALLAS -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/26/2011 9:22:05 AM)

I think it has more to do with unmet needs in childhood.
It is at the CORE of who we are.
...and then there are some who just like to get kinky




stellauk -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/26/2011 11:20:07 AM)

Coming back... To me the choice if any lies in the person, not in the activities.

The activities themselves are pretty meaningless. BDSM is about relationships, both with yourself and with others, it's interaction, understanding, being able to relate, share, trust, confide in, and manipulate the flows of energy between you and someone else between power and control and back again.

This is why vanilla isn't the same. Vanilla is a relationship with that part of us submerged, concealed, hidden. That is however just a common concept of vanilla, of which at times I challenge its existence in reality.

For me D/s is an integral element of human interaction and culture. Knowledge is power, and so too is the awareness and understanding of the fulfillment of our needs and desires. You submit to your doctor, your employer, to the police officer, and thus without the other person with that awareness a dominant or a submissive is just another person. Someone who walks past you in the street.

BDSM in many respects therefore is synchronicity, two minds on a wavelength, a flow of energy, words, eye contact, gestures, symbols, rituals, activities, all interwoven into the rich tapestry of the relationship - each experience is as individual as the two people involved, the emotions, the feelings evoked, the connotations, the time, the place, even the memories.

But however which way you care to look at it, the choice remains within the person.




81song -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/26/2011 12:43:04 PM)

As for me now that I opened my eyes a few years back, I have learned I have been this way all my life. Its just that I did not know it.
So I guess you could say I do chose this way of being because of who I am, if that makes sense at all.




MrBukani -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/26/2011 1:37:22 PM)

I like saying I am not much different from the kid I was. I just learned to do it all right....




domincalifornia -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/26/2011 2:42:22 PM)

Always everything is a choice.




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/26/2011 3:52:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Is BDSM hereditary, genetic or just a preference?



Two part answer:

1)  The interest is likely genetic or environmental.

2)  Whether one acts on said interest is a choice.

[:)]





Duskypearls -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/26/2011 3:58:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Is BDSM hereditary, genetic or just a preference?



Two part answer:

1)  The interest is likely genetic or environmental.

2)  Whether one acts on said interest is a choice.

[:)]




Succinct and to the point. Well said.




MikeSojourner -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/26/2011 6:03:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

Two part answer:

1)  The interest is likely genetic or environmental.

2)  Whether one acts on said interest is a choice.



[sm=bowdown.gif]

MSLA just said in 20 words what I've been trying to express across multiple posts and paragraphs.




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/26/2011 6:21:12 PM)

So sorry, your question as it is asked is phrased incorrectly (IMO).

Every single gol darned thing we do in life is a choice. It's the beauty of being human: choice.

But no one chooses to be gay, or transgendered or extraordinarily kinky. It's who you are and who you discover yourself and finally (I so hope) accept yourself as being. It's not a choice to me.

The choice is: Will I act on who I am?
Will I attempt to accept who I am?

These are choices, and very difficult ones.

But, you know, if I am a lesbian, masochistic, hugely kinky type person,  I do not have to act on that. I can pretend to be something else, and that is an entirely other choice.

Or I can fly in the face of society's standards, and make my own standards.

Everyone is life has choices. How many get down to the bare nitty gritty and decide to live life as they *really* are?






SAMHAIN09 -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/26/2011 9:27:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Delilya

Well I Have run across other family members here, including one of my children. shrugs. No, they did not know until grown that Mom lived outside the box.
That must have been an awkward thanksgiving but I think it can be a combination of all three for example according to my college professor it's not nature or nurture it's both.




MistressDarkArt -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/27/2011 12:15:44 AM)

FR

<likes MrBukani's smiling avatar, good choice>

Can't speak for others, but I remember taking to bdsm and dominant D/s thoughts as a very young girl like a fish to water. Started acting on it hands-on with men at 14. My mom and dad's marriage was most definitely a FLR (though I doubt that term had been coined then). They were kinky as hell...I know, I saw the polaroids when I was snooping around while they were out of the house.

So maybe inheriting the lifestyle bent was genetic, maybe not. Doesn't really make a difference; I'm hardwired this way and couldn't change it if I tried. My acting on it is a choice. I could certainly live without acting on it...but why should I? Being a kinky domme is personally expansive, keeps all my elements engaged and is fulfilling on so many levels. I was born a dominant and I'll die one.

I am passing the femdom torch to my niece since I have no daughters. Neither she or her long-term partner are very kinky, deviant or twisted as their dear auntie is. But for the sake of her relationship with her sub partner, she is learning to dominate him. He loves it because she is now able to clearly express what her needs are and what she would like him to do about them. Alpha in his public life, he's service oriented in his partnership and prefers to cut to the chase without wading through the warm fuzzy mire of John Gray dogma. Nowadays, she says, he does. She tells me her new-found ability has helped her focus on what she finds satisfying without needing to over-think how to present her requests as a diplomat. They're both investing much less effort to have more of their needs met.

Hereditary/genetic? Eh, who knows. Practical, fun and fulfilling? Hell yeah. That's all I know for sure!




Btono -> RE: Is BDSM a choice? (11/27/2011 12:59:44 AM)

I don't know. When I was 12 a firend (girl) really wanted to play naked with me and the scenario I invented was harem servant play and objectification with all my present fetish (no sexual play, ok I was 12 and couldn't even imagine that was she had between her leg could be use for pleasure). I didn't act on it and try to be the chivalric knight of the story which fail miserably no girl wanting to date the nice and devoted chivalric knight. At one point I discovered bondage following a rebufal. Then I treated ladies as would-be servant and got dated and even a submissive wife.

If I analyse I guess I am a leader type, I took time to accept it. But I do relate one of my fetish to having say a fetish like scene about it in the avenger. I don't feel I chose to be dominant. Just that it fit what I am. Though what I do as dominant and how much is certainly a choice (like bondage or having my wife in full slavery).

That lead me to say that you see a lot of vanilla relationship you see are vanilla only sexually, most have a Dom/S relation really.

Best regards

Master B




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