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How much do you push a newbie? - 11/27/2011 8:37:37 AM

MyHazelLabyrinth

Posts: 112
Joined: 8/12/2011
Status: offline

Hi there

ok this may be a little whishy whashy but i'll get there eventually, bare with me please.

So, my question is, well when "getting to know" a new sub/slave that has not had any experience in "the lifestyle" before, how much do you rush getting into more intimate things? how far do you go to pushing them?

I've been told that some degree of pushing is good, but you don't want to be going over any comfort zones to the point that that sub/slave never wants to see you again.

Just, how do you draw the line where you have pushed enough? Or what is your pace into "getting to know" them?
How far is too far?

Now, i know i have asked alot, and some of it may be confusing but i'll try and make any points that are a bit fuzzy more clear.
I know that these questions aren't easy to answer, but i'm really just looking for general opinons.
And will be grateful for any comments.
Thanks for reading :)

Post #: 1

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/27/2011 8:49:52 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

Depends. I have met some subs and taken them to my car on the first meeting and showed them the nipple clamps and implements. Next meeting, we played.

Some I have spent a lot of time on the phone first and gotten to know them better, and maybe played on the third meeting.

Some of course I realized I was not compatible with and never met at all.

My general rule of thumb (with exceptions of course) is that I will play on or before the third meeting or it's going too slowly.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to MyHazelLabyrinth)

Post #: 2

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/27/2011 1:23:49 PM

Epytropos

Posts: 699
Joined: 7/23/2011
Status: offline

nvm... I misinterpreted your question I think

< Message edited by Epytropos -- 11/27/2011 1:24:31 PM >

_____________________________

They're only words. Don't dwell on them. They never mean what you think.

I speak only of My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 3

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/27/2011 1:38:04 PM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

My answer is like DS's: It depends.

Some male subs are very slow to open up and let you in. Which means it takes a long time to build trust. I like to know someone quite well before any scening, so I take my time.

An example would be my current sub, who I see 2-3 times a year. First time we met he was allowed to massage me and lick my toes. Second time we played, but a fairly light scene. Last time I saw him was perhaps the12th time, and I would say it's only been the last 2 times that I have "pushed" him.

Now, there are those who think I go incredibly slow, and I agree. Trust is hard to build, easy to destroy. So in the beginning I prefer to leave them wanting more.

_____________________________

(in reply to MyHazelLabyrinth)

Post #: 4

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/27/2011 1:46:52 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MyHazelLabyrinth

How much do you push a newbie?

Till they break into song... singing, "I'm a little teapot..."

It's proof-positive of Ownership, as well as scientifically valid.

_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to MyHazelLabyrinth)

Post #: 5

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/27/2011 4:03:37 PM

subgirlga

Posts: 1
Joined: 11/24/2011
Status: offline

Really by the third meet...that is moving slowly? For an inexperience sub?

Wow, no wonder the Doms are interested in me.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 6

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/27/2011 5:23:24 PM

MikeSojourner

Posts: 31
Joined: 11/8/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MyHazelLabyrinth
I've been told that some degree of pushing is good, but you don't want to be going over any comfort zones to the point that that sub/slave never wants to see you again.

That would be just as true with an experienced submissive as a newbie.

As the dominant - you push the submissive as far as you want - within their hard limits. With some submissives you may want to go further than they they will allow - at which point you have to decide which is more important, keeping them as a submissive or being able to take that area of play further. With some dominants, a submissive may want and be used to going farther than the dominant has interest in - at which point the submissive has to decide which is more important, serving that dominant or getting getting to play that way. It all comes back to the Dom/sub needing to find a compatible sub/Dom.

Within that "no way in hell" limit is all sorts of possible uncomfortable "I really don't want to do this but I will" areas. And, there really is no easy answer for just how far and how often you take a submissive into that uncomfortable zone before they begin to wonder if this is the right thing for them. It's a thin line between letting them top from the bottom versus being aware of how you can push them.

Some like to be pushed like that, and see it as an intensifying part of their relationship with their dominant. Some hate it, and see it as something they have to suffer in order to be allowed to serve in other ways. But, the better you know each other, the better you can 'read' the submissive, and the more they trust in you, and the more you successfully push other boundaries - the further and more often you'll be able to push new boundaries.

(in reply to MyHazelLabyrinth)

Post #: 7

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/27/2011 6:06:54 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

What I can tell you from my own experience is that when he started pushing too hard, I called him on it. I told him that he was scaring me. So he apologized, back tracked and went slower, and he made it a rule that I had to tell him when it was too much.

But we were friends and lovers first. So the relationship has always been more important than any one activity. If I'm not comfortable with something, it's no big deal to him. He just switches gears to something that doesn't cause me to have panic attacks. Usually he waits for me to bring it up in discussion, and we talk it out, research it, do it in small steps to figure out what the problem is and if I can handle it with a couple of small changes.

Pole bondage comes to mind here. He'd try it every six months or so, and I'd have a panic attack every time. Took almost three years before we discovered that if he didn't tie my head, then I didn't panic.

Knowing that I am more important to him than having activity X right this minute has always allowed us to continue on, no matter what happens along the way. Without that, the first time something went wrong would have been the last.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to MikeSojourner)

Post #: 8

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/27/2011 7:24:22 PM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

Ok, what's pole bondage? All google is giving me is porn ;)

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 9

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/27/2011 8:01:38 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MyHazelLabyrinth

Hi there

ok this may be a little whishy whashy but i'll get there eventually, bare with me please.

So, my question is, well when "getting to know" a new sub/slave that has not had any experience in "the lifestyle" before, how much do you rush getting into more intimate things? how far do you go to pushing them?

I've been told that some degree of pushing is good, but you don't want to be going over any comfort zones to the point that that sub/slave never wants to see you again.

Just, how do you draw the line where you have pushed enough? Or what is your pace into "getting to know" them?
How far is too far?

Now, i know i have asked alot, and some of it may be confusing but i'll try and make any points that are a bit fuzzy more clear.
I know that these questions aren't easy to answer, but i'm really just looking for general opinons.
And will be grateful for any comments.
Thanks for reading :)

All depends on what you are looking for. Are you looking for someone who you are going to be in a long term relationship with? Or only a play partner?

For a long term relationship, jumping into things before getting to know each other very well will usually doom the relationship for the long term (again, I said usually. Not always). If all you want is a play partner, then do you really need to know each other very well?

(in reply to MyHazelLabyrinth)

Post #: 10

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/27/2011 10:17:43 PM

caelestis

Posts: 195
Joined: 9/6/2008
Status: offline

Well like most things, I think that'll vary from person to person. I jumped into a poly 24/7 relationship only 4 months after my 18th birthday... but I thrive on being pushed. :)

Would that work for everyone, or for a lot of people? Probably not! Discussion with the sub in question will probably lead to finding the proper speed. Good luck!

_____________________________

"We are a fountain of shimmering contradictions, most of us. Beautiful in the concept, if we're lucky, but frequently tedious or regrettable as we flesh ourselves out."
— Gregory Maguire

(in reply to MyHazelLabyrinth)

Post #: 11

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/28/2011 8:58:10 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

Its a lot like driving really fast in a car you have never driven before. Skill and luck both play important roles, the less skill you have the more luck you need not to crash and burn. When the tires lose traction and you are about to crash and burn experience becomes even more important. And in life faster isnt always better...

(in reply to caelestis)

Post #: 12

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/28/2011 10:01:14 AM

Clickofheels

Posts: 603
Joined: 10/23/2011
Status: offline

Personally, I believe this topic should be important to EVERYONE... whether Dominant or submissive, newbie or experienced, heavily or lightly involved in S&m, or not into S&m at all. Why? Because physical and emotional damage is being done that needs to be addressed. And how do *I* know? Because submissives have trusted me enough to relay their stories to me over the years.

SCENARIO: A strictly hetero male submissive is told to orally service another male for his Dominant's enjoyment. Just the idea of it disgusts him, but he cannot displease his Dominant and so does it. Afterwards, he feels this automatically labels him as gay or bisexual, and he lives the rest of his life tortured by the thought.

SCENARIO: A female submissive, never before taken anally, is told to bend over and, with no lubricant or preparation, must thereby accept a penis/dildo. Her screams only encourage her Dominant to thrust harder with no mercy. She undergoes surgery that night for massive tears in her anus.

SCENARIO: An idiot Dominant (of either gender) watches the online video of stapling, rushes to the nearest hardware store and buys a high-powered staple gun kit, anxiously anticipating the next scening with their submissive.

These things ARE happening in "our World!" (SOME Dominants, NOT ALL, are using their power and their Control to place their submissive(s) on guilt trips for their limitations. And they are convincing submissives to perform or take parts in acts that are far beyond hard limits.

Can the submissive say "No" to the demands of a Dominant? Of course they can... only the majority are afraid to do so. They are afraid of disappointing their Dominant to the point of being let go! And since you and I both know that it can take awhile to find the right match, neither wishes to have to begin the searching process all over again. And so the submissive endures and thereby the Dominant's demands only increase over time.

I would like to presume that the greatest share of Dominants care for the emotional and physical well-being of their submissive(s) enough to accept when enough is enough. But as I have seen and heard on this website, there are still those who feel their submissive(s) have no value as human beings and therefore earn what they get.

If a submissive respects a Dominant enough to place his/her entire trust in their hands, then surely we as Dominants can return that respect by keeping our submissives both emotionally and physically safe!

Respectfully posted,
Clickofheels

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 13

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/28/2011 10:30:24 AM

Duskypearls

Posts: 3561
Joined: 8/21/2011
Status: offline

Here, here!

(in reply to Clickofheels)

Post #: 14

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/28/2011 11:39:00 AM

MadamDouceVoix

Posts: 17
Joined: 11/23/2011
Status: offline

When I met sub males in person, I was always admittedly aggressive in My approach and communicating My personality to them.
With My female subs, I was very charming, very saccharine, but always unquestionably in control.
I haven't fucked anyone, male or female, without getting to know them as thoroughly as possible, first. I live by this general rule.
I think that it's just irresponsible to all involved otherwise.

When I'm ready to push though, it is unceasing, deliberate and juggernaut-esque. When I feel comfortable enough to push is determined by the receptiveness and maturity of My sub. It's terribly difficult to put a time frame or duration of probationary period on these things...everyone's so different.

I should mention, while I treat My female subs and male subs slightly differently from each other, I know that some Dominants make no differentiation.

_____________________________

Teeth like razors, mouth full of honey...
Always for the Love, sometimes for the money...
Voice to make you solid, blades to make you bleed...
Always for the Pleasure, never for the greed...

(in reply to Duskypearls)

Post #: 15

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/29/2011 8:46:54 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Ok, what's pole bondage? All google is giving me is porn ;)

Being tied to a pole. As opposed to yourself or the posts of the bed or anything else around. I imagine I would have had the same damn reaction if tied to a tree if he also tied my head in place.

And I absolutely hate my hair being tied to things.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 16

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/30/2011 2:50:20 AM

BoxwineForBrunch

Posts: 184
Joined: 11/14/2011
Status: offline

look the important thing to remember is there is always one right answer that works for everybody and you can always find that answer on an internet message board. so make sure you never ever communicate with your partner, just give vague details and ask for advice from a crowd of anonymous, indifferent strangers!

_____________________________

you have achieved success. but have you achieved success at success at success?

(in reply to MyHazelLabyrinth)

Post #: 17

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/30/2011 3:08:20 AM

mons

Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

I never rush anyone even if they feel they can handle it!
With any submissive think they can rush into things we learn'
no it can not,. so slow so good so satisfiing and so good when they
trust you! They need respect so much i would not ever not
give them this it goes without saying!

mons

(in reply to BoxwineForBrunch)

Post #: 18

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/30/2011 3:42:18 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MyHazelLabyrinth

Hi there

ok this may be a little whishy whashy but i'll get there eventually, bare with me please.

So, my question is, well when "getting to know" a new sub/slave that has not had any experience in "the lifestyle" before, how much do you rush getting into more intimate things? how far do you go to pushing them?

I've been told that some degree of pushing is good, but you don't want to be going over any comfort zones to the point that that sub/slave never wants to see you again.

Just, how do you draw the line where you have pushed enough? Or what is your pace into "getting to know" them?
How far is too far?

Now, i know i have asked alot, and some of it may be confusing but i'll try and make any points that are a bit fuzzy more clear.
I know that these questions aren't easy to answer, but i'm really just looking for general opinons.
And will be grateful for any comments.
Thanks for reading :)

For me, the focus is on building mutual trust. I don't consciously enter into short-term relationships so I take the time necessary - whatever that may be....

But yeah, it's a good question. I've found D/s newbies to be something of a challenge, a paradox even, and I mean that in a good way. They usually come with conflicted emotions (curious and eager - but nervous with it etc) , which can leave me unsure about how much is too much etc. And it's not good for us Doms to be unsure.... lol So I do it in small steps.

As a point of pride, I want that first formal D/s session to be one where she wants to come back for more another time. Mostly it's "basic training" about eye contact, how and where to stand, where to keep her hands, how to answer properly and so forth. As to "how far", I'm generally guided by her reactions to it all, as there is a lot to take in. I also give her a safe-word (I insist), as well as explain it, whether she already knows or not.

It's a big point of trust to tie her hands behind that first time. Usually we're about 30 or so minutes in by this, and her early nerves are mostly settled by then. But I don't usually go too far beyond maybe giving her 15-30 minutes bound wrists and ankles. She gets to keep her clothes on (I insist, anyway) and I don't touch her intimately or inappropriately etc.

And unlike other or later scenes, I'm checking in with her all the time - lots of "you ok?" questions etc. After I untie her, we then spend quite some time going over what just happened, why I want and do many things the way I do and generally giving her some insight into the one thing she can't know herself - what it is that motivates a Dom and what we get out of it. Then I send her home and let her decide if she wants to come back. If so, then I begin giving her rules....

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to MyHazelLabyrinth)

Post #: 19

RE: How much do you push a newbie? - 11/30/2011 9:28:38 PM

MistressDarkArt

Posts: 5178
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoxwineForBrunch

look the important thing to remember is there is always one right answer that works for everybody and you can always find that answer on an internet message board. so make sure you never ever communicate with your partner, just give vague details and ask for advice from a crowd of anonymous, indifferent strangers!

Boxwine's the Awesomesauce! He never fails to amuse!

(in reply to BoxwineForBrunch)

Post #: 20

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