Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Immigrants and Workers


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Immigrants and Workers Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Immigrants and Workers - 6/4/2006 2:21:25 PM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
You're young, ArtCatDom, and you're showing your inexperience with real life issues, so I'm going to cut you a lot of slack.

Raising minimum wage solves nothing with regard to the immigration issues facing us today.  Even our minimum wage is so much higher than third world wages that companies cannot compete on a global scale because their costs of doing business in the US are so much higher than competitors overseas.

Those of us with ongoing business concerns have the right to pay what we think a job is worth. 

If, for example, it costs me $80 bucks in fuel costs to run a bobcat front end loader to clean out a barn, I might offer $50 to someone to clean out the barn by hand.  If a worker who cannot find other work is happy to clean out My barn in 10 hours for $5 bucks an hour, that's our business, not yours. 

By the same token, if a company like Coca Cola has to raise their minimum wage from $7.25 per hour to $9.25 per hour (still not a living wage), their costs of production go up, and they have to compete with other bottlers in other countries who are paying only $3 per day to their laborers, and who are producing their product so cheaply that they can afford to bottle and import the product here and still make money. 

Under your theory, I'd be paying that same barn cleaner $92.50 per day (instead of the $50 I used to be able to pay him) in order to comply with the law, and the end result would be that I'd do it myself wiht the bobcat front end loader for $80 and save the $12.50 for My company.  End result: the barn cleaner is now out of a job.

Migrant workers who harvest tomatoes are paid by the bushel or box, not by the hour, to motivate productivity.  Most green card workers are paid by the piece, or by the job, not by the hour.

Here's why:  Let's say I own a vegtable farm; I cannot afford to pay one guy $8.00 per hour to pick 10 tomatoes per hour and pay another guy the same $8.00 per hour to pick 300 tomatoes an hour, now, can I?  If the worker picks 300 tomatoes, packed 30 tomatoes to a box, he gets paid by the number of boxes he pics in a day.  After a 10 hour day, he's picked 3000 tomatoes, or 300 boxes, to the other worker's 100 tomatoes, or 10 boxes.  In agricultural employment it would spell financial disaster to have to pay both workers the same minimum wage regardless of their output.

As for fining companies for hiring undocumented workers:  I very carefully examine the documents that are presented to Me when I hire a worker on the ranch.  Yet, it is against the law for Me to challenge those documents or to ask about the worker's validity of the documents in any way.  There is absolutely no way for me to validate their documents and stay within the bounds of the law.  To punish Me financially for accepting copies of Identification documents in accordance with the law is going to put the other 50 employees working for me out of a job, and those other 50 employees are making $100 to $150 per day and are supporting their families right in our hometown, white, black, hispanic, US citizens all.  Punishing any employer or corporation who has to accept the identification as provided, by law as the laws are now, will wreck the economy even further than beyond today's sluggish downturn.

Neither I, nor many of the companies whose destruction you so vehemently propose, 'intentionally undermine our border patrol'.  We're trying to make a living like everybody else.  That means we have to run our operations at a profit, something we (at our ranch) have not been able to do for almost a decade now.

While it is true that some companies knowingly hire undocumented workers, and while it is true that some companies may take advantage of undocumented workers, by and large,the small businesses, small manufacturers, agricultural concerns and large corporations alike are just as busy trying to comply with the law as I am here on the ranch.

As I stated above, you're young, ArtCatDom, and you have a lot to learn about life.

TexasMaam

< Message edited by TexasMaam -- 6/4/2006 2:28:05 PM >


_____________________________

~ My opinions are not necessarily those of the management... ~

(in reply to ArtCatDom)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Immigrants and Workers - 6/5/2006 4:23:17 PM   
ArtCatDom


Posts: 478
Joined: 1/20/2005
Status: offline
You're misinformed and have no conception what life I have lived, but you don't know me and you've obviously been given bad information, so I'll cut you some slack.

Your statement about having no legal fashion in which to verify documents is false. There are numeorus ways to do this. You can verify the photo identification with the issuing agency (whether Motor Vehicles for driver's license, Homeland Security for passport, etc). You can run a credit check to verify their name, addess and SS# are valid. And so on. There are countless legal ways to verify the employment information and under the current law it is your responsibility to make sure the information and identification provided is valid. I'm not sure where you got the idea it's illegal to check IDs, but it's dead wrong. These statements are based on laws, regulations and administrative judgements, as well as the experiences of employers I know. You can verify this information with any lawyer familiar with employment law (as I did, though IANAL). I am very curious to know where you are drawing your (mis)information from on this matter.

Also, I think you have (unintentionally) posted some information which is misleading. If you're a "small farm" (by DoL standards) you're already exempt from minimum wage. If you're not and you're paying by piece work, you must pay no less than minimum wage. (Not saying you didn't know this, but the wording of your post would imply otherwise.)

Finally, I may be relatively young, but I've been quite exposed to the wide wide world and lived quite the long life for my short years. You can shove your "ig'nant youngster" attitude where the sun doesn't shine.

*meow*

(in reply to TexasMaam)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Immigrants and Workers - 6/6/2006 8:49:36 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
Art Cat is right. You can go Online and check someone out for $25.

(in reply to ArtCatDom)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Immigrants and Workers - 6/6/2006 8:56:28 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
Texas Maam, I agree with you on a lot of what you said.
One thing for certain, this "Global Economy" crap just isn't working out very well for Americans.
The people in Washington should be getting us OUT of Trade Deals not trying to get us involved in more of them!
And we should be closing embasseys not opening more of them.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Immigrants and Workers - 6/6/2006 9:12:47 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
Fortress America wouldn't work. Trade is a two way street and the US isn't self sufficient in all the raw materials it needs. The way forward for advanced technological countries is to stay ahead of the game and use their inbuilt advantage to stay that way.

For example, Toyota is about to take over from GM as the world's largest car manufacturer, that is because GM took its eye off the ball and Toyota make cars people want to buy. If America pulled up the drawbridge that would prevent GM fighting back. As a European, it would make little difference to me if I couldn't buy a GM car because GM were not allowed to compete in European markets because of trade retaliation. There are enough car brands to choose from, whether European or south east Asian. If I buy a car I buy the best one for my needs, if that is a Toyota or GM car or any other, it really doesn't matter to me.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Immigrants and Workers - 6/6/2006 9:15:27 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
Festung Europa was a reasonably bankrupt idea, but as so many other things, there is nothing learned from history.

Heil Hitler, just in case we lose.........


LOL,
Ron 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Immigrants and Workers - 6/6/2006 9:18:07 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
Bingo on globalization!!!!!!!! we the people, be damned, AGAIN.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Immigrants and Workers - 6/6/2006 9:23:55 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Festung Europa was a reasonably bankrupt idea, but as so many other things, there is nothing learned from history.

Heil Hitler, just in case we lose.........


LOL,
Ron 


I agree. I just wish the French and Germans would come to their senses instead of holding the whole EU back.

For a lesson in what not to do economically one should study the French who oppose the British thinking of competing in a free market but can't understand why the British economy is doing better than theirs.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Immigrants and Workers - 6/6/2006 9:28:20 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Bingo on globalization!!!!!!!! we the people, be damned, AGAIN.


For myself, I think capitalism has to change for the sake of the environment but until governments are willing to change capitalism themselves instead of insisting other countries change first, we are stuck with the crap ruinous system we have.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Immigrants and Workers - 6/6/2006 1:46:57 PM   
Moloch


Posts: 1090
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline
Here are some facts you should know:

40% of all workers in L.A. County (L.A. County has 10 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.

95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.

Over 2/3’s of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.

In L.A.County 5.1 million people speak English. 3.9 million speak Spanish (10.2 million people in L.A.County).

(All 10 from the Los Angeles Times)

Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops but 29% are on welfare.
http://www.cis.org/

Over 70% of the United States annual population growth (and over 90% of California, Florida, and New York) results from immigration.

The cost of illegal immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 was a NET (after subtracting taxes immigrants pay) $70 BILLION a year, [Professor Donald Huddle, Rice University].

The lifetime fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) for the average adult Mexican immigrant is a NEGATIVE .

29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.

Just thought you should know.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 30
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Immigrants and Workers Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.141