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RE: your perspective? - 11/29/2011 6:59:00 AM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: love pat

So, the idea that just because someone feels pleasure in causing another person pain reflects a lack of conscience does not make sense to me. A sadist gives a masochist pain... and the masochist experiences pleasure from this experience. They agree. They match. They match in a very specific way, or set

Actually they don't match. A sadist seeks to cause pain on another and will gain pleasure from those acts. The greater the pain the greater the pleasure may be the goal here. However the ethics and morals of the sadist do come to play and do tend to be the influencing factor to the sadist's actions.

But if the masochist gets pleasure from painful acts by the sadist. This will not feed the sadist's pleasure. In fact, it can be very frustrating. The logic would go that more painful acts by the sadist would cause greater pleasure for the masochist. But, if the masochist is experiencing pleasure and not
pain the sadist will be unsatisfied from a pure sensory context.

So do not agree that they necessarily a match. The non-masochist that is prepared to accept pain for my pleasure is the most pleasurable for the
sadist. I think many try to convince themselves they are masochist in there
efforts to endure the pain. Just as there are many that try and convince
themselves they are sadist's to justify their actions to cause pain. But
sometimes it's really just about fun and labels are irrelevant.

My girl Alandra does not really see herself as a masochist. Which for those that have watched her play is some what disturbing. She enjoys sensations some feel good and some hurt like a bastard. What hurts... Hurts! But she enjoys it. Bumps and bruises are all part of the game. Be it football, hockey or SM. Yes its a game in my view, but one with some very intimate consequences. Is there healing factors to the psyche? Yes, I suppose there will be for some. But, I find that there is more empowerment and growth. Some if not most are well beyond the self medicating and healing that they are using SM for. It is very much about growth and fun for many.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 11/29/2011 7:22:30 AM >

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RE: your perspective? - 11/29/2011 6:59:14 AM

kalikshama

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quote:

"Getting the Love You Want," by Harville Hendrix.

I read this in the 90's, when my marriage was failing. We went to a workshop at the Kripalu Center for Yoga and Health. I visited the site just now to see if it's still offered and HH is on the home page, lol, with a workshop starting this week: http://www.kripalu.org/program/view/GLYW-112

I had different presenters and think this is the workshop we attended: http://www.kripalu.org/program/view/DYL-121/deepening_your_love_a_retreat_for_couples

This was my husband's first encounter with self exploration and he found it quite painful, in fact, he said he could have stayed home and hit his foot with a hammer, experienced the same amount of pain, and saved a lot of money.

Actually we did learn a lot - I discovered he had my mother's strengths and my father's weaknesses. He started practicing yoga. We were nicer to each other for a while, and then the inevitable decline continued again.

*********

I had a BDSM scene that initially resonated as quite unpleasant, but upon further reflection, turned out to be quite cathartic.

Beware of making generalities here - never goes over well.

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RE: your perspective? - 11/29/2011 7:01:26 AM

KnightofMists

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As a note... There is many of your comments that I have read for which I have a different angle on. But no time for that at the moment. Need to get ready and go to a chocolate factory.... Woohoo lucky me!

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RE: your perspective? - 11/29/2011 7:09:03 AM

LillyBoPeep

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I dunnnno KoM, I guess to me, that's a limited view of masochism. For a lot of people, it doesn't look anything like that.

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RE: your perspective? - 11/29/2011 7:09:04 AM

kalikshama

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quote:

But if the masochist gets pleasure from painful acts by the sadist. This will not feed the sadist's pleasure. In fact, it can be very frustrating. The logic would go that more painful acts by the sadist would cause greater pleasure for the masochist. But, if the masochist is experiencing pleasure and not pain the sadist will be unsatisfied from a pure sensory context.

The part of me being hurt hates it but my pussy loves it, so he is getting the reactions he seeks.

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RE: your perspective? - 11/29/2011 7:21:06 AM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

I dunnnno KoM, I guess to me, that's a limited view of masochism. For a lot of people, it doesn't look anything like that.

I have a strict physiologically view of these terms. After that people start to lose sight of the trees for the forest. Perceptions are a crazy thing and we will often see what we want to see. We also will ignore what we don't want to see.

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RE: your perspective? - 11/29/2011 11:41:23 AM

caelestis

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So... Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, but it sounds like you're saying that because a sub may not have a traumatic experience, what they are doing can't be "profound"?

Sure, some people could use S&M as a path to healing. I don't think that makes what anyone else does any less extreme or any less significant. I don't believe what we do makes vanilla relationships less significant or diminish their ability to help heal personal wounds. While it is an interesting theory I think it has a lot of holes and at the core of things...

It is going to change, on all levels and in all variables, based on the people involved.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovepat

Hi Caelestis,

Just kink... just doing what is interesting, fun and feels good.

I was NOT saying that everyone is experiencing any one thing, but rather, that the more extreme, intense participants, may be doing something uniquely profound. Again, this is not meant to disparage anyone.

We, the BDSM community, are aware that we are not mainstream (vanilla). So, why then, the surprise, that something different or noteworthy may be going on? Like other rare things in nature, perhaps BDSM has rare power, whether it be like a rainbow or a hurricane? No judgment in it... it just IS.

All the Best,
lovepat

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RE: your perspective? - 11/29/2011 12:18:31 PM

hlen5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

.......................... I thought Freud full of shit as well.

Amen to this!!

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Post #: 28

RE: your perspective? - 11/29/2011 12:26:53 PM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovepat

It would seem to me that masochists are hard-wired, very young, or if later, through traumatic experiences involving violence and maybe sexual assault.

I was never exposed to traumatizing violence or sexually assaulted and I'm a masochist.

I've always believed that everyone processes pain differently. I think Shiatsu massages are one of the most excrutiating things ever....but I think a spanking feels wonderful.

As for the sadist side. Everyone is sadistic, it's just to varying degrees.

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Post #: 29

RE: your perspective? - 11/29/2011 2:57:21 PM

domincalifornia

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quote:

It does make me wonder, if once healed, do the games continue? But, I have heard a lot so far about how in SM, people can reach a peak and need to move on to someone more, or less, intense. Will you please write to me with your thoughts?

lovepat

I think many people move on not necessarily because they specifically want someone more or less intense, but because they want someone different. If your focus is kink, then doing the kink with the same partner can eventually become tiresome and you want a change. If people stay together, it's because they are bonded by more things than kink.

I don't think there is anything wrong with identifying patterns in your lovers, which most of us have, though I don't necessarily think you have to go through such a formal process. But that depends on the individual.

As others have pointed out, a lot of the generalizations and assumptions you have about sadism-masochism don't ring true to me either. The notion that someone uses sadism-masochism to "heal" their childhood trauma through a very aware, left-brain process and then loses interest in sadism-masochism strikes me as an unlikely scenario for most people.

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RE: your perspective? - 11/29/2011 8:42:51 PM

DesFIP

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The problem with your theory that all masochists are recreating nonconsensual abuse is that lots of them will attest that they aren't. So where do they fit into your box?

Beyond that, pain as pleasure is done in many vanilla ways, without abusive backgrounds. People only say this stuff when it involves sex. If it involved the sense of taste, no one claims that the guy pouring Tabasco on his dinner was abused. Yet why not? After all, that's a classic example of someone seeking pain and suffering. Eyes running, mouth burning, what else could you describe it as except masochism?

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RE: your perspective? - 11/29/2011 8:54:01 PM

Clickofheels

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Although I DO NOT begrudge people who are into S&M...

I have had a Dominant personality for as far back as I can remember.
And I have found that I can Control a submissive without being Sadistic...and prefer it so.

As to the initial post of this thread, sorry but it reads to me like someone doing an online behavioral/self help survey for a psych class. Frankly, the minute I saw "brainstorm writing," I lost interest.
I don't feel this site nor its people are here to be placed under a microscope.

Respectfully,
Clickofheels

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Post #: 32

RE: your perspective? - 11/29/2011 9:16:02 PM

RumpusParable

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Beyond the comments of others regarding the sadist/masochist angle given, I simply don't buy the original premise that everyone is essentially broken and uses their partner to "heal" them.

Sounds about as true as the Venus/Mars nonsense.

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RE: your perspective? - 1/30/2012 4:50:25 PM

SlaveSubtoserve

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actually i kind of agree with the OP with the proviso that it does not apply to ALL but most definitely some. there are different types of maso and sadists in the scene doing this for their own different reasons but definitely there is a signficant segment of masos that fit what the OP says....at least one or 2 of us so....

re the childhood trauma quandry as a nolo- cause for many masos, they don't remember it possibly due to its pre-conscious occurrence in terms of age etc....again not all but some for sure...the trauma may never become conscious and thats ok so....who really cares after a point.

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