RE: total slavery

RE: total slavery (Full Version)

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Ishtarr -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 12:25:14 PM)
Okay, apparently you have some really weird ideas about slavery -both legal and BDSM slavery- so lets take this one step at a time, shall we.... quote: ORIGINAL: RWOLF A slave by defination is someone who is owned and has no choices. The definition of a slave is: slave (slv) n. 1. One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household. 2. One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence: "I was still the slave of education and prejudice" (Edward Gibbon). 3. One who works extremely hard. 4. A machine or component controlled by another machine or component. An alternative dictionary defines a slave as: slave \|slāv\| nounchiefly historical a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them. • a person who works very hard without proper remuneration or appreciation: by the time I was ten, I had become her slave, doing all the housework. • a person who is excessively dependent upon or controlled by something: the poorest people of the world are slaves to the banks \| she was no slave to fashion. • a device, or part of one, directly controlled by another: [ as modifier ] : a slave cassette deck. Compare with master1. • an ant captured in its pupal state by an ant of another species, for which it becomes a worker. Now, please note that nowhere in either definition it states that a slave has no choices (remember that, it's important later). Also note that while there are certain definitions in which a slave is defined as an owned human, most of the definitions of a slave do NOT included ownership. Therefor, it's perfectly possible for a person to HAVE choices, to NOT be owned, and to STILL be a slave. quote: ORIGINAL: RWOLF Yet in profiles I see so many with limits and demands. Perhaps they are really submissives and not slaves. No, you see so many with limits and demands, because you see people looking for a RELATIONSHIP and not abject legal slavery. In BDSM, the difference between a submissive and a slave is a subjective one. Somebody titling themselves a s slave does not mean that they are less entitled to find happiness than a submissive is. In order for people to find happiness, they need a partner that is compatible with them. Ergo, slaves will post their limits and demands so that they can find a partner that is compatible with them, in the hopes that this will enable them to secure happiness. It's the same thing you're doing on here, isn't it? Why would you expect other people not to be looking for the same thing? If compatibility didn't matter for a BDSM slave, the LITERALLY any man would do. They wouldn't even have to bother to make a profile, because it wouldn't matter what kind of man he was, or what kind of woman they are, if compatibility didn't matter. If BDSM slaves where actually looking for legal, abject, involuntary slavery, then it wouldn't matter which man they became slaves to. The fact that they DO care about who they become a slave to will tell you immediately that ALL of them have demands, expectations and limits. Even if they don't post them on their profile, be sure that they DO have them. If they didn't, any man would do and they wouldn't bother looking for the right man. quote: ORIGINAL: RWOLF Are you as a slave going into a relationship with the mindset that you will leave when it suits you or being a slave and remaining as such no matter what? Why on Earth would they remain in a relationship that doesn't suit them? Why on Earth would they remain no matter what? Are you seriously suggesting that if you turn into an alcoholic wife beater that they should remain no matter what? WHY? Why would they do that? quote: ORIGINAL: RWOLF Can you accept that you are owned with no choice even that of release? Oh, I see, you think that BDSM slaves are legal slaves and that legal slaves have no choices. Let me ask you: what would a legal slave have done if they had the opportunity to run away? Would they have just stuck around because of some altruistic sense of duty to the idea that they where legally owned, or would they have ran? Considering that legal slaves would run when they had the chance, what exactly do you think it was that kept them from running? Do you think that it may have been the fact that they where under constant security, by either people or chains? Do you think that it was the fact that they had no place to go to? If the security was gone, and they had a place to run to, do you think they would have ran? And if legal slaves would run when they had the chance, then why on Earth do you expect a BDSM slave that you apparently expect to behave as a legal slave to do anything different than run when they get sick of you? quote: ORIGINAL: RWOLF Can someone in consensual slavery truely be a slave with no choices and not just walk away because they are unhappy at times? Even legal slavery cannot take away a person's choices. So why do you expect pretend slavery to be able to do it? The only thing that you can do to prevent a person from walking away when they are unhappy is either keep them chained up 24/7 OR instill in them the knowledge that, while times may be rough some times, in the end, being with you is all WORTH IT. You can only do that by making sure that YOU make it worth for THEM to WANT to be with you. If you rely on their sense of duty to the concept of legal slavery to stick around, you are not going to keep them through rough times... it's as simple as that. quote: ORIGINAL: RWOLF An owner would have the right to sell or kill their slave in a real slave situation(not that it is legal)( and no I dont condone killing anyone). I speak here of the mindset of the slave. You're not speaking from the mindset of a (legal) slave. You're speaking from the mindset of a (legal) slave OWNER. Legal slaves did NOT accept their owner's rights to kill and sell them. Legal slaves did not have "the mindset of a slave". Legal slaves where forced into a system that treated them like animals, but that doesn't mean that legal slaves accepted that they where animals. Legal slaves considered themselves to be very much human. They where very much against being killed. They where very much against obeying their masters. They where very much against staying with their masters. And they where very much against being slaves. Is that the mindset YOU want from your slave? quote: ORIGINAL: RWOLF Can you as a slave set that in your mind as a possibility and accept that. No, human beings want to survive. Nobody will ever accept the mindset that you are entitled to kill them unless they are mentally ill. quote: ORIGINAL: RWOLF Would that not be setting yourself up as a true slave, giving yourself over fully with no reservations and accepting everything as it comes? BDSM slavery is not about suffering through and accepting everything as it comes. BDSM slavery is about two people finding each other and clicking in such a ways that they BOTH can make it be worth for the other to stay around and go through things together. They're not at all different from vanilla relationships in that aspect. For a Dom/Master type, that will mean that you will have to find a way to make it be WORTH to live through all the discomfort, and bad times that obedience to you may bring them. You will have to make it such that in the end, when she takes a measure of her life, she is gaining more than she is losing from being with you. She's have to do the same thing to keep you interested in her; or would you really stay with a woman who is more trouble than she is worth? If not, then why would she stay with a man who is more trouble than he is worth? I hope that gives you a new perspective on things, because it sounded like you needed one badly...

RWOLF -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 12:43:38 PM)
Thank you all for posting. This is what I wanted, diferent views and opinions. This is how a community comes together and survives. There is never one right or wrong answer, just different perspectives

Aileen1968 -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 12:56:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RWOLF Greetings slaves, This is a question, more a topic for discussion. Here I wish to put aside all legal aspects as this is simply food for thought. A slave by defination is someone who is owned and has no choices. Yet in profiles I see so many with limits and demands. Perhaps they are really submissives and not slaves. Are you as a slave going into a relationship with the mindset that you will leave when it suits you or being a slave and remaining as such no matter what? Can you accept that you are owned with no choice even that of release? Can someone in consensual slavery truely be a slave with no choices and not just walk away because they are unhappy at times? An owner would have the right to sell or kill their slave in a real slave situation(not that it is legal)( and no I dont condone killing anyone). I speak here of the mindset of the slave. Can you as a slave set that in your mind as a possibility and accept that. Would that not be setting yourself up as a true slave, giving yourself over fully with no reservations and accepting everything as it comes? Again, this is a topic for discussion about the MINDSET of a slave and how many actually see it as being true or false. I hope this to become a great topic of DISCUSSION and NOT ARGEMENTS Actually, your definition of slavery is someone who is owned and has no choices. Mine happens to be completely different. I get to make choices all of the time. He sets the parameters and I play by the rules. For you to actually believe all that you wrote, I'm lead to believe that you live in a fantasy world. And I always have the choice to leave.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 1:05:07 PM)
I'm a slave, and like all slaves, I always have a choice: Do what I'm told, or face the consequences. 9/7

LafayetteLady -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 1:09:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RWOLF Greetings slaves, This is a question, more a topic for discussion. Here I wish to put aside all legal aspects as this is simply food for thought. So you are apparently not looking to speak to everyone here, only the slaves. LESSON 1: While the forums maybe divided into categories, everyone posts anywhere they think they have something to say, so.....sucks to be you. quote: A slave by defination is someone who is owned and has no choices. Yet in profiles I see so many with limits and demands. Perhaps they are really submissives and not slaves. While you obviously appear as a man that women naturally fall at the feet of (cough), the reality is that people, even slaves get to choose who they want to be involved with. Whether that is a loving relationship (yea, surprise, many slave and masters love each other), or simply an M/s one. Is it really that difficult for you to understand that these "limits and demands" are listed so that they can (hopefully) limit those who contact them to be of a similar mindset? Or do you think that just because someone identifies as "slave" they should hook up with someone who is looking for a toilet slave, who is a sadist, or into any other number of things that don't fall in with what that slave wants? I realize that for many of you highly desirable men, it is difficult to understand why your messages of "I want to own you, come kneel before me now" aren't met with women running to your door, but than again, this is reality. LESSON 2: Wanting to live in an altered state of reality simply means you have trouble with actual reality. The reality is that people CHOOSE each other. So no, you claiming to be "master" doesn't mean that slaves don't have the right to say no to you. so...sucks to be you. quote: Are you as a slave going into a relationship with the mindset that you will leave when it suits you or being a slave and remaining as such no matter what? What do you mean by "no matter what?" Again, step back into reality. Most people, except for a rare few, enter a relationship hoping it will last. But shit happens. You mention that as a "master" you would have the "right" to sell or kill your slave (obviously a fantasy idea), but in reality, while you don't mention it, I'm sure you think as "master" you have the "right" to "release" your slave if she ceases to bring you enjoyment. What makes you so special that when you start to make her miserable, she should have to deal with it? LESSON 3: In reality, both masters and slaves enter a relationship with the "mindset" it is going to last, and hopefully, all parties are adult enough not to leave after simply having a "bad day." But the concept of them really "having no choice" is pure fantasy. so....sucks to be you. quote: Can you accept that you are owned with no choice even that of release? Can someone in consensual slavery truely be a slave with no choices and not just walk away because they are unhappy at times? Once you start using "true slave" in any context, you have shot yourself in the foot. Both feet. The only reality that exists is "consensual slavery." A situation where two people have AGREED to be involved and have a master/slave power dynamic. They will have discussed their wants and needs, what they are looking for in a partner and have reached the conlcusion that they are a good match. No one is happy all the time, but adults communicate things that make them unhappy at times. If the unhappy times outweigh the happy ones, it is time to re-evaluate. Since from reading your profile, you really don't care about your slave's happiness, she will have to be responsible for that herself. So while you are whistling through your days happy as a clam having a slave, if she is miserable, she might not wait for you to be so magnamous to release her. LESSON 4: If you continually make them unhappy, they will walk away. so....sucks to be you. quote: An owner would have the right to sell or kill their slave in a real slave situation(not that it is legal)( and no I dont condone killing anyone). I speak here of the mindset of the slave. Can you as a slave set that in your mind as a possibility and accept that. Would that not be setting yourself up as a true slave, giving yourself over fully with no reservations and accepting everything as it comes? In which alternate universe would an "owner" have the right to kill or sell their slaves? I seem to remember that plantation owners couldn't simply kill their slaves. Yes, they could sell them, but they couldn't just kill them willy nilly. What kind of mindset do you think someone will have if they live day to day thinking that their master night sell them off so he can buy a case of beer, lose her in a card game, or worse, just decide to kill her? Do you THINK that will give them a good mindset? To live in fear all the time is never good and actually not part of what it is we do. Those that "accept everything as it comes" typically wouldn't care if you killed them, so they don't really care about you. LESSON 5: A happy slave leads to a happy master. So a slave with the mindset that they are thought so highly of they could be disposed of with total disregard, is likely to high tail it out before you get the chance. so...it sucks to be you. quote: Again, this is a topic for discussion about the MINDSET of a slave and how many actually see it as being true or false. I hope this to become a great topic of DISCUSSION and NOT ARGEMENTS Like a couple others, I looked at your profile. You really don't seem to be looking for a discussion of the "mindset" of a slave. You directed your question to only the slaves here. By your reasoning, all of them should have immediately fell at your feet if they were "true slaves." So to summarize here.....sucks to be you.

anniezz338 -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 1:11:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady quote: ORIGINAL: RWOLF Greetings slaves, This is a question, more a topic for discussion. Here I wish to put aside all legal aspects as this is simply food for thought. quote: So you are apparently not looking to speak to everyone here, only the slaves. LESSON 1: While the forums maybe divided into categories, everyone posts anywhere they think they have something to say, so.....sucks to be you. quote: A slave by defination is someone who is owned and has no choices. Yet in profiles I see so many with limits and demands. Perhaps they are really submissives and not slaves. While you obviously appear as a man that women naturally fall at the feet of (cough), the reality is that people, even slaves get to choose who they want to be involved with. Whether that is a loving relationship (yea, surprise, many slave and masters love each other), or simply an M/s one. Is it really that difficult for you to understand that these "limits and demands" are listed so that they can (hopefully) limit those who contact them to be of a similar mindset? Or do you think that just because someone identifies as "slave" they should hook up with someone who is looking for a toilet slave, who is a sadist, or into any other number of things that don't fall in with what that slave wants? I realize that for many of you highly desirable men, it is difficult to understand why your messages of "I want to own you, come kneel before me now" aren't met with women running to your door, but than again, this is reality. LESSON 2: Wanting to live in an altered state of reality simply means you have trouble with actual reality. The reality is that people CHOOSE each other. So no, you claiming to be "master" doesn't mean that slaves don't have the right to say no to you. so...sucks to be you. quote: Are you as a slave going into a relationship with the mindset that you will leave when it suits you or being a slave and remaining as such no matter what? What do you mean by "no matter what?" Again, step back into reality. Most people, except for a rare few, enter a relationship hoping it will last. But shit happens. You mention that as a "master" you would have the "right" to sell or kill your slave (obviously a fantasy idea), but in reality, while you don't mention it, I'm sure you think as "master" you have the "right" to "release" your slave if she ceases to bring you enjoyment. What makes you so special that when you start to make her miserable, she should have to deal with it? LESSON 3: In reality, both masters and slaves enter a relationship with the "mindset" it is going to last, and hopefully, all parties are adult enough not to leave after simply having a "bad day." But the concept of them really "having no choice" is pure fantasy. so....sucks to be you. quote: Can you accept that you are owned with no choice even that of release? Can someone in consensual slavery truely be a slave with no choices and not just walk away because they are unhappy at times? Once you start using "true slave" in any context, you have shot yourself in the foot. Both feet. The only reality that exists is "consensual slavery." A situation where two people have AGREED to be involved and have a master/slave power dynamic. They will have discussed their wants and needs, what they are looking for in a partner and have reached the conlcusion that they are a good match. No one is happy all the time, but adults communicate things that make them unhappy at times. If the unhappy times outweigh the happy ones, it is time to re-evaluate. Since from reading your profile, you really don't care about your slave's happiness, she will have to be responsible for that herself. So while you are whistling through your days happy as a clam having a slave, if she is miserable, she might not wait for you to be so magnamous to release her. LESSON 4: If you continually make them unhappy, they will walk away. so....sucks to be you. quote: An owner would have the right to sell or kill their slave in a real slave situation(not that it is legal)( and no I dont condone killing anyone). I speak here of the mindset of the slave. Can you as a slave set that in your mind as a possibility and accept that. Would that not be setting yourself up as a true slave, giving yourself over fully with no reservations and accepting everything as it comes? In which alternate universe would an "owner" have the right to kill or sell their slaves? I seem to remember that plantation owners couldn't simply kill their slaves. Yes, they could sell them, but they couldn't just kill them willy nilly. What kind of mindset do you think someone will have if they live day to day thinking that their master night sell them off so he can buy a case of beer, lose her in a card game, or worse, just decide to kill her? Do you THINK that will give them a good mindset? To live in fear all the time is never good and actually not part of what it is we do. Those that "accept everything as it comes" typically wouldn't care if you killed them, so they don't really care about you. LESSON 5: A happy slave leads to a happy master. So a slave with the mindset that they are thought so highly of they could be disposed of with total disregard, is likely to high tail it out before you get the chance. so...it sucks to be you. quote: Again, this is a topic for discussion about the MINDSET of a slave and how many actually see it as being true or false. I hope this to become a great topic of DISCUSSION and NOT ARGEMENTS Like a couple others, I looked at your profile. You really don't seem to be looking for a discussion of the "mindset" of a slave. You directed your question to only the slaves here. By your reasoning, all of them should have immediately fell at your feet if they were "true slaves." So to summarize here.....sucks to be you. Yawn is the word

Lockit -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 1:13:22 PM)
True slaves do not yawn! That is a punishable offense because you seem to be saying, your dom is boring! Now.. back in your cage! [:D]

LafayetteLady -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 1:13:56 PM)
Pretty much what I thik of your posts as well, so...

anniezz338 -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 1:17:04 PM)
At least we agree on something. :) The best to you

anniezz338 -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 1:21:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit True slaves do not yawn! That is a punishable offense because you seem to be saying, your dom is boring! Now.. back in your cage! [:D] Then i need to up my game....or like my cage :)

caelestis -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 1:29:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RWOLF Thank you all for posting. This is what I wanted, diferent views and opinions. This is how a community comes together and survives. There is never one right or wrong answer, just different perspectives Then how do you justify the "wannabe slaves" comment on your profile? Because you very much seem to think that anyone with limits who identifies as a slave is wrong in identifying that way.

RWOLF -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 2:00:54 PM)
People, I have my own definations and views, like everyone else. I thank EVERYONE for sharing their views, even those that are being sarcastic. Each of our own worlds are very defined for ourselves, like I said, there is no right or wrong, just different views. I respect each and everyone that posted here. Thank You

Lockit -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 2:42:53 PM)
How do you see calling people wanna-be's for their own view of things, bringing together the community and assisting in its survival? (I don't believe in 'the community'... but really... if you believe there is one, wouldn't you be more responsible in how you conducted yourself, the things you say, etc. if you wanted it to survive... unless of course... wanna be's defined by you has some merit I cannot possibly see.)

Ishtarr -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 2:46:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RWOLF People, I have my own definations and views, like everyone else. I thank EVERYONE for sharing their views, even those that are being sarcastic. Each of our own worlds are very defined for ourselves, like I said, there is no right or wrong, just different views. I respect each and everyone that posted here. Thank You Euh, there IS a right and a wrong way. Those doing things the right way will end up having successful mutually fulfilling relationships. Those doing things the wrong way will either end up being perpetually single because they can't find a person dumb enough to want to be with them OR they will end up having an abusive relationship mentally, emotionally, fiscally and physically damaging to both or one of the parties involved. You seem to be set on doing things the wrong way, so there ya go... good luck with that... and I sincerely hope that if you do find somebody who is dumb enough to be willing to be with a person who feels they need to bring nothing to the table that you won't completely destroy them.

HisPet21 -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 3:22:35 PM)
I don't think it's possible for someone to "accept" the idea of being killed or sold into slavery by a person who, supposedly, should care about them. We are all born with an ingrained desire to survive. It takes a LOT of mental fucking to bring someone to the point where they are okay with being killed, or permanently harmed, or severely injured (as in...sawing off limbs or other sick stuff). So, is the MINDSET you are referring to possible? Nope, not under normal and humane circumstances. So, according to your definition, are there slaves? Nope, guess not, sucks to be you. But putting all that aside, why the hell would you want a doormat for a slave? That's kind of fucking boring, don't you think? And why would you want a slave with a MINDSET so deranged that he/she is okay with being killed? That's a red flag to get someone immediate medical attention, a sign that your property is seriously ill and damaged. Who want's deranged, broken property? If I were a domme, I'd want a slave/sub with the mental stability to handle all the tasks, emotions, and situations that being in ANY relationship entails. Your ideal slave sounds mentally unstable.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 3:24:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ishtarr ...there IS a right and a wrong way. Those doing things the right way will end up having successful mutually fulfilling relationships. Those doing things the wrong way will either end up being perpetually single because they can't find a person dumb enough to want to be with them OR they will end up having an abusive relationship mentally, emotionally, fiscally and physically damaging... You seem to be set on doing things the wrong way, so there ya go... good luck with that.. [sm=agree.gif]

caelestis -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 4:39:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RWOLF People, I have my own definations and views, like everyone else. I thank EVERYONE for sharing their views, even those that are being sarcastic. Each of our own worlds are very defined for ourselves, like I said, there is no right or wrong, just different views. I respect each and everyone that posted here. Thank You Did you purposely ignore my question, or just not understand it?

hausboy -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 4:52:02 PM)
You know, while we're breaking out the dictionary here.... There's a whole segment of pervs (many are dear, dear friends of mine) who call themselves "bears." I go camping in the woods. A lot. And I can personally attest that I have never once, out in the wild, seen a naked hairy gay man on all fours, in the middle of the creek, catching a salmon his mouth. So if we can call those folks "bears", we can certainly call those who choose to enter into the role...."slaves." just my two cents.

Lockit -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 4:59:19 PM)
Damn it Hausboy... you almost made me spit with that one! What a mind picture! [:D][:D][:D] Thank you! [;)]

hausboy -> RE: total slavery (11/29/2011 5:03:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit Damn it Hausboy... you almost made me spit with that one! What a mind picture! [:D][:D][:D] Thank you! [;)] I aim to please....you aim, too, please.....

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