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RE: total slavery - 11/29/2011 5:04:30 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		ROFLMAO!!!

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: total slavery - 11/29/2011 5:11:21 PM   
Mazterlock


Posts: 24
Joined: 11/28/2011
Status: offline 		I believe that the mindset of a deeply committed slave is that she has only one choice - she is always free to walk away from the relationship entirely. Deeply committed slaves hold on to that one choice that they are very unlikely to use but they do not want any middle ground where they are defining the boundaries of their slavery.

My experience is with submissives who use the term slave but are not really looking to surrender completely. One of my most challenging lessons as a Dominant was a submissive who would look me in the eye and tell me that she understood her safeword and how to use it even though she knew that she would never use her safeword no matter what.

That taught me just how deep and intense the mindset of a slave can be. It taught me that I need to be responsible for figuring out limits on my own because the most intense submissives will not limit a session even if things are going too far.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: total slavery - 11/29/2011 5:17:53 PM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		I think that's more common than people think, but people who experience that are afraid to say, for fear of being called unhealthy, or unsafe, or codependet or some other negative...

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Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica


(in reply to Mazterlock)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: total slavery - 11/29/2011 6:46:24 PM   
Killerangel


Posts: 1169
Joined: 8/3/2010
Status: offline 		I don't ever understand why there simply so many threads from male Dominants about female slaves or submissives and how can the s types call themselves that if they want things out of their relationship. Why does every one of these guys think that their definition of whatever is the one that everyone uses and that these women are somehow going against a secret code?

People have different ideas on what is great to have for lunch, why the heck wouldn't they all have different ideas on how to structure their relationships? Why does it matter what umbrella it falls under? It's a relationship, people look for different things, they need to find someone compatible with themselves so they tell about themselves and what they're looking for. These aren't necessarily demands or limits, they are what works for that person. Why would anyone let what others want bother them? Everyone is different, you look for what it appropriate for you and let the rest of the world do what it does.

Those women calling themselves slaves feel they are slaves, they don't give a rip how someone else defines them. They are being very wise to let potential suitors know what works for them, instead of ripping on the unslaviness of these women they should be praised for it.

(in reply to RWOLF)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: total slavery - 11/29/2011 7:10:21 PM   
BoxwineForBrunch


Posts: 184
Joined: 11/14/2011
Status: offline
quote:

An owner would have the right to sell or kill their slave in a real slave situation(not that it is legal)( and no I dont condone killing anyone). I speak here of the mindset of the slave. Can you as a slave set that in your mind as a possibility and accept that. Would that not be setting yourself up as a true slave, giving yourself over fully with no reservations and accepting everything as it comes?


yeah bro! wimminz should be clinging to their owners with the same grim, desperate intensity rwolf shows in clinging to every last strand of hair on his shiny little head.

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you have achieved success. but have you achieved success at success at success?

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: total slavery - 11/29/2011 7:28:00 PM   
Killerangel


Posts: 1169
Joined: 8/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RWOLF

An owner would have the right to sell or kill their slave in a real slave situation(not that it is legal)( and no I dont condone killing anyone). I speak here of the mindset of the slave. Can you as a slave set that in your mind as a possibility and accept that. Would that not be setting yourself up as a true slave, giving yourself over fully with no reservations and accepting everything as it comes?

Again, this is a topic for discussion about the MINDSET of a slave and how many actually see it as being true or false.

I hope this to become a great topic of DISCUSSION and NOT ARGEMENTS


Thanks BFB, I forgot this little tidbit. I did want to address it.

If anyone voluntarily entered a relationship with the idea that death was ok to accept as a possible outcome- that is just silly. There is nothing noble about that, it seems rather stupid. To say that a true slave must accept death as a possibility....idiotic concept if I ever heard one. Self preservation and survival instinct are there within our beings for a reason, to try to overcome that because snookums thought it would be cool, is to defeat your basic humanity.

Here's the deal....
If you are a leader that inspires great devotion then you will find a slave who will follow you to your heart's desire. If you are some amazing kind of person who has a crapload of stuff going on that matters to others, then your slave will be your biggest fan and you won't have to worry about him/her leaving or having demands. Great leaders inspire great followers.

< Message edited by Killerangel -- 11/29/2011 7:31:05 PM >

(in reply to RWOLF)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: total slavery - 11/29/2011 8:59:55 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		The obvious mistake the op makes is that he assumes people are going to agree to be a no limit slave on the first meet. Nobody does that. He wants someone who will give him the trust immediately that takes years to earn.

So just as he says anyone who doesn't do that isn't a true slave, I declare that any idiot who thinks he can get this without meriting it isn't a true master. And as the op's own profile says his slaves left him, it says to me that he got what he deserved.


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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to Killerangel)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: total slavery - 11/29/2011 10:07:30 PM   
domincalifornia


Posts: 88
Joined: 6/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RWOLF

An owner would have the right to sell or kill their slave in a real slave situation(not that it is legal)( and no I dont condone killing anyone).


And in real life, a lot of slaves would love to kill their master if they had a chance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RWOLF

A slave by defination is someone who is owned and has no choices. Yet in profiles I see so many with limits and demands. Perhaps they are really submissives and not slaves.



People get too hung up on labels.

Someone may, for whatever reason, label themselves as a "slave" because, for whatever reason, they find that closer to who they are than "submissive."

Everything is a spectrum and maybe in their  mind, submission is 70% of a submissive attitude, while slave is 90% of a submissive attitude.

Or, heck, maybe they just like the word "slave" better than the word "sub." Or maybe they see themselves as a rebellious slave. 

Ultimately, who cares?

The label is just a starting point to get to know someone. And once you get to know them -- which includes getting to know their limits and demands -- you can throw out the label and they can just be them. And if that works for you, great. If not, you move on.




(in reply to RWOLF)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: total slavery - 11/29/2011 10:13:18 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Not illegal to own another human being... that is your supposition.

Ok.

Slaves have value, they are not cheap. Only an extremely rich person would run around killing their slaves. Not to mention, those who are born in societies of slavery have a different mindset than those who are not. Children of slaves would be taught from a young age to accept their stations in life.

As someone pointed out, Native Americans would have rathered died than be owned. And had the opportunity to escape back to their tribes at the first chance. There was always the hope of freedom.

African slaves didnt have that hope. No escape, though many tried, and were killed for their attempts.

quote:

A slave by defination is someone who is owned and has no choices. Yet in profiles I see so many with limits and demands. Perhaps they are really submissives and not slaves.


What one owner views as a submissive brat, another may see as a devoted slave. slavery isnt always about the slave within the lifestyle. slavery is also that commitment between the two that makes or breaks the relationship. Many will tell you, they could not be a slave to one man, and a deeply devoted possession to another. Relationships take work... my favorite saying is...

slaves are not "add cum and stir"

Since we are of a society that has taught their offspring to stand up for themselves, to not "cow tow" to others, to make their own way in this world, the mindset into real, actual, legal slavery would be a slow undertaking.

quote:

Are you as a slave going into a relationship with the mindset that you will leave when it suits you or being a slave and remaining as such no matter what?


Suits me? no, not at all. But, the moment I decide to leave, I am no longer his slave. That would be the mindset I would leave with. I made that choice, and it was a long, hard process with much doubts, tears, anger and self-flagellation. Yes, I felt like a failure for a long time. Then I realized, it wasnt just me that failed.

quote:

Can you accept that you are owned with no choice even that of release? Can someone in consensual slavery truely be a slave with no choices and not just walk away because they are unhappy at times?


I assume some can... and I know some come to that decision in a hard way. I begged release after 3 months, and was told no. I begged release every three months after that for 3 years. He wasnt happy, I wasnt happy, there really was no point. I eventually left, but didnt go far for a while, and we continued to see each other. But I simply realized that we were delaying the inevitable. And I moved to another state.

quote:

An owner would have the right to sell or kill their slave in a real slave situation(not that it is legal)( and no I dont condone killing anyone). I speak here of the mindset of the slave. Can you as a slave set that in your mind as a possibility and accept that. Would that not be setting yourself up as a true slave, giving yourself over fully with no reservations and accepting everything as it comes?


If someone had been raised with that ideology from the beginning, I could see that happening.

But, now, its time to ask my own questions.

You speak of someone being a submissive and not a slave because of their limits. If a man wanted a woman who enjoys anal, and ends up with a woman who detests it, then who is to blame if the topic never came up?

If a man prefers no children, and she has her own. Do you believe she should just give them up to be "owned" by him because that is his desire?

Maybe a man likes playing with needles, and that is the slaves biggest fear.

Would it not be better for the two people to find compatibility in their desires?

I truly believe a happy slave makes for a happy relationship. The happier she is, the more willing and accepting she will become.





< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 11/29/2011 10:14:24 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: total slavery - 11/30/2011 6:09:09 AM   
kanina


Posts: 147
Joined: 11/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mazterlock

I believe that the mindset of a deeply committed slave is that she has only one choice - she is always free to walk away from the relationship entirely. Deeply committed slaves hold on to that one choice that they are very unlikely to use but they do not want any middle ground where they are defining the boundaries of their slavery.

My experience is with submissives who use the term slave but are not really looking to surrender completely. One of my most challenging lessons as a Dominant was a submissive who would look me in the eye and tell me that she understood her safeword and how to use it even though she knew that she would never use her safeword no matter what.

That taught me just how deep and intense the mindset of a slave can be. It taught me that I need to be responsible for figuring out limits on my own because the most intense submissives will not limit a session even if things are going too far.



I do not use a safe-word ever, never did till know, mainly because I'm a masochist and a stubborn one... Nothing to do with being a slave or sub... but its just me ...


_____________________________

Non nobis, domine, sed domine Tuo da gloriam

(in reply to Mazterlock)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: total slavery - 11/30/2011 6:11:03 AM   
Fornica


Posts: 2986
Status: offline 		Will you marry me?
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoxwineForBrunch

yeah bro! wimminz should be clinging to their owners with the same grim, desperate intensity rwolf shows in clinging to every last strand of hair on his shiny little head.



_____________________________

There is no spoon.


(in reply to BoxwineForBrunch)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: total slavery - 11/30/2011 6:13:17 AM   
Mazterlock


Posts: 24
Joined: 11/28/2011
Status: offline 		Kanina - do you think you might be a masochist who is not necessarily submissive?

I have met very dominant women who want to control and demand how they should be treated as a masochist.

I'm not making any kind of judgement, I'm just fascinated.


(in reply to kanina)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: total slavery - 11/30/2011 6:38:02 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Real slavery wasn't "real" anyway. Slaves rarely loved or respected their masters, sometimes murdering them in the middle of the night. Nor were slaves passive, lets not forget gladiators were slaves and slaves often were quite dominant, some even running entire households.

Being a master of slaves was similar, it took no talent, no skill, just money. Society enforced the laws that forced slaves to obey not the "master's" willpower or leadership skills.

We in BDSM use the term "slave" to mean something entirely divorced from its historical meaning. Its a hot term for one side of a relationship and no more. Ideally, it is a relationship hand crafted to make those in it happier, more fulfilled, and successful than they have ever been.

I want a woman who is strong and independent, I don't want someone I have to micromanage or re-parent. I want someone who can hold their own in a firefight, succeed in business, enlighten and educate me, dazzle my co-workers at an office party, and in short, enhance my life.

I want a woman who can keep up with me intellectually but who's cunt gets wet when I grab her hair, drag her into an alley and fuck her while she is shoved up against the wall and who later on might beat me at backgammon or charm my parents.

I want her enslaved to me not because it is in her nature but because of who I am. I want to tame a wild beast not sit passively on a ride at Disneyland. I want to know she is giving me more than she has ever given because I deserve more. Want a great slave? Create a great relationship!


< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 11/30/2011 6:47:11 AM >

(in reply to Mazterlock)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: total slavery - 11/30/2011 6:42:49 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		+1 SimplyMichael!
(En garde, Peon!)

_____________________________

Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica


(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: total slavery - 11/30/2011 7:01:33 AM   
kanina


Posts: 147
Joined: 11/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mazterlock

Kanina - do you think you might be a masochist who is not necessarily submissive?

I have met very dominant women who want to control and demand how they should be treated as a masochist.

I'm not making any kind of judgement, I'm just fascinated.




More into the slave side although I'm stubborn and all, i end up doing what the dominant wants... and i do choose according to empathy and mutual interests...


_____________________________

Non nobis, domine, sed domine Tuo da gloriam

(in reply to Mazterlock)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: total slavery - 11/30/2011 7:02:06 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RWOLF

A slave by defination is someone who is owned and has no choices. Yet in profiles I see so many with limits and demands. Perhaps they are really submissives and not slaves.

I have plenty of choices within the parameters he allows.  This "no choices" business is pretty bizarre, actually.  If he had to make every single choice for me throughout every single day of our lives he would not be a happy man and would likely rather own a plant.

quote:


Are you as a slave going into a relationship with the mindset that you will leave when it suits you or being a slave and remaining as such no matter what?


I went into this relationship with the mindset that I would remain in it as long as we were both fulfilled.  He agreed.  Over time, and with the love that has developed between us, the idea of questioning whether or not we'll remain fulfilled has diminished.  Going into a relationship, there is no real commitment yet, as people are still getting to know each other.  In no way was I totally committed to him at the beginning of this relationship.  It wasn't until he showed me who he was, over time, and I trusted in that, that the commitment grew. 

quote:


Can you accept that you are owned with no choice even that of release? Can someone in consensual slavery truely be a slave with no choices and not just walk away because they are unhappy at times?

Why anyone in a committed relationship, M/s, D/s or otherwise, would walk away just because they are unhappy at times is a little baffling to me.  As far as I know, pretty much every relationship is going to have unhappy times.  It's during those times when you rely on your commitment to each other, your love for each other, and your dedication to working things out.

If we were unhappy for a prolonged period of time, he'd try to fix it, since he wants a happy, healthy relationship as much as I do.  If the situation couldn't be fixed, I'd imagine we'd have a long, heartfelt conversation about our future together (or possible lack of one).  Because, you know, we talk.  A lot. 

quote:


An owner would have the right to sell or kill their slave in a real slave situation(not that it is legal)( and no I dont condone killing anyone). I speak here of the mindset of the slave. Can you as a slave set that in your mind as a possibility and accept that. Would that not be setting yourself up as a true slave, giving yourself over fully with no reservations and accepting everything as it comes?

I'm not at all interested in living by a definition, and very interested in being true to myself, and in him being true to himself.  He feels the same.  Since we both went into this with the mindset of creating a healthy, loving relationship in which he held all authority, it would be in severe contrast to who he is to then want to give me away, sell me, or kill me.  It would pretty much be counter-productive to his desires.  Although I'm sure there are times I annoy him enough to fantasize about that....heh.

But no, considering ridiculous options that have no realm of reality in our worlds is not where we spend our energies. 




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Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: total slavery - 11/30/2011 11:26:10 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		The other thing the op doesn't understand is that in most cases, limits are health issues. Physical, mental and emotional.

And why so many guys who can't get laid and declare that they are tpe  masters is because they don't understand the value of taking care of what they own. Any owner worth committing to does not go around destroying his property. It may be legal to buy a vintage sports car and take a sledge hammer to it, but it shows the person who does this to be contemptible and stupid. Same thing if you deliberately destabilize the property to the point they no longer have value and need expensive treatment to be put back together.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: total slavery - 11/30/2011 12:32:38 PM   
stellauk


Posts: 1360
Status: offline 		Okay, a few things come to mind..

Firstly - consensual.. by agreement, people being themselves and doing their own thing by finding the middle ground with other people being themselves and doing their thing. This is generally how it works here.

But then again isn't that how relationships between people work in general?

It is as it is. There is no should, there is only what is, and what isn't. The exact same principle applies to every single individual person here.

Look beyond the stereotypes, both within yourself and in others.

Connect with the individual, relate, appreciate, enjoy. Again, this applies to you as it does to others.

That way you will discover what is really important, and what isn't.

_____________________________

Usually when you have all the answers for something nobody is interested in listening.

(in reply to RWOLF)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: total slavery - 11/30/2011 1:00:29 PM   
risktaker9


Posts: 197
Joined: 3/10/2010
Status: offline 		I like the color green and the scent of flowers. I adore rainy days. I prefer vegetables over meat. To be a human being is to have preferences, they go down to our DNA - preferring one thing over another is part of our make-up. Some of it is instinctual/biological, such as an aversion to bitter taste, and some is emotional. Some preferences come from our past experiences and some are whimsy. Why is this idea of women having preferences so abhorrent? The women who know what they want and then announcing their preferences in a profile seems to be a great idea, that way like-thinking men can contact them. Others can keep looking.

People generally stay with things that make them feel alive, energetic, and cared for.....they don't generally choose to be miserable or even just so-so. People tend to seek joy, not mediocrity. If they take the time to put a song on the CD player they choose something they enjoy, not something they can't stand. Even if they love slavery in general, they love it more in connection with a man who brings joy for them into that relationship.

Lets twist this a bit OP. You say that you want a woman who puts their love for being a slave first over every other thing, including their own preferences. They themselves always come second to the man they are serving and his wishes. Is that special? Do you really want a woman who puts a concept over a person? If she has no preferences/wants/desires and only wants to serve, then ANYONE WILL DO. Including you. Therefore there isn't anything special about you at all, she'd be happy serving anyone remember? It would be more rewarding wouldn't it if she had preferences and used them to select you?

Simply having ownership of a robot, which isn't actually possible because remember humans all have preferences, wouldn't actually be very fulfilling would it if that robot performed for anyone? Where is the Mastery or fun in having an appliance that performs at will and is not bound to you, the man, who she is with? To know that another chooses you and prefers you is high praise and much more satisfying I'd think than owing an appliance.

(in reply to stellauk)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: total slavery - 11/30/2011 1:31:58 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I am a slave. I am not allowed preferences, desires, wants or likes.

I am to do as I am told, without question or hesitation.

His pleasure is all I need to be happy.

My body... no.. my life is his, for his enjoyment, for his desires, for his aggression, for his abuse.

I am to serve without complaint, with a sweet smile and a light step, always eager, always willing, always able.

My wants are to be forgotten.

My needs are always at his discretion.

He may do with me as he wishes, no holding back, no limits placed.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to risktaker9)
Profile   Post #: 60
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