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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 11/30/2011 2:53:13 PM   
Ishtarr


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Oops, quoted myself instead of editing.

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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 11/30/2011 2:57:21 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ishtarr

You get a selection of beef, pork and chicken, and maybe some turkey with the sandwich meat or around thanksgiving.



You need to hang out in a better class of neighbourhood! Our supermarkets here in Iowa City always have those mentioned above but also lamb, duck, those boring little game hens, and a wide variety of seafood. We also have rabbit, goat, elk and buffalo easily available. Most of us can get venison quite easily, but wild venison cannot be sold for some reason or another.

And I forgot, there is a place not far that sells ostrich meat also. At least they used to...


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 11/30/2011 2:58:52 PM >


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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 11/30/2011 4:00:13 PM   
needlesandpins


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i have horses and have bred pure arabians in the past. unlike the huge studs who breed from their mares every year and cover anything that breathes, i would only breed at most two in one year. my mares would breed every other year at the most and sometimes had upto 4 years off. all my mares have stayed with me until i have lost them all bar one who is now 20. i had my stallion from 18months and knew him from being concieved. sadly i lost him at thebeginning of last year and i miss him every day. all of my youngsters were bred to do a job and they all do. they all won in the show ring as yearlings and were kept until at least two years old. most were over four before being advertised so that they had all the training they needed. all do either endurance or show jumping and were sold to the home and not the money.

it's a huge investment to rear horses like that. sadly it's not how most are raised. colts that should have been gelded are sold to people with no money and they breed from them because it came from a top stud running 100 mares. all my boys were gelded before sale. most colts never see a field again as they can't be turned out just anywhere. i've been lucky to always have had somewhere to turn my boys out.

the uk shut down all the places where horses were slaughtered for the meat trade but we are huge exporters to france. i must say that since all the slaughter houses were shut down the market has become swamped with horses that no-one wants. unfortunately though, those that are exported are not treat well. they are crammed into lorries together with no food or water. they are often traumatised and injured when they get where they are going. the eu made britain have passports for every equine in the country. there was alot of shyte about it stopping abuse and horses being stollen which hasn't stopped at all. all it was really for was so that those going into the food chain could be traced and have meds recorded. however, the one advantage of a passport is that you can sign it to say that the horse can never be slaughtered for human consumption. all mine are signed.

my nana used to cook horse meat for my grandad during the war. we had a shop in our town that sold only horse meat for alot of years. i personally wouldn't knowingly eat it unless i was starving but i have no problem with those who do eat it. it is just meat once it's on a plate afterall. my friend loves pigs dearly but she still eats bacon. but no-one will be eating one of my horses for sure.

needles

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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 11/30/2011 4:13:55 PM   
Duskypearls


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quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

i have horses and have bred pure arabians in the past. unlike the huge studs who breed from their mares every year and cover anything that breathes, i would only breed at most two in one year. my mares would breed every other year at the most and sometimes had upto 4 years off. all my mares have stayed with me until i have lost them all bar one who is now 20. i had my stallion from 18months and knew him from being concieved. sadly i lost him at thebeginning of last year and i miss him every day. all of my youngsters were bred to do a job and they all do. they all won in the show ring as yearlings and were kept until at least two years old. most were over four before being advertised so that they had all the training they needed. all do either endurance or show jumping and were sold to the home and not the money.

it's a huge investment to rear horses like that. sadly it's not how most are raised. colts that should have been gelded are sold to people with no money and they breed from them because it came from a top stud running 100 mares. all my boys were gelded before sale. most colts never see a field again as they can't be turned out just anywhere. i've been lucky to always have had somewhere to turn my boys out.

the uk shut down all the places where horses were slaughtered for the meat trade but we are huge exporters to france. i must say that since all the slaughter houses were shut down the market has become swamped with horses that no-one wants. unfortunately though, those that are exported are not treat well. they are crammed into lorries together with no food or water. they are often traumatised and injured when they get where they are going. the eu made britain have passports for every equine in the country. there was alot of shyte about it stopping abuse and horses being stollen which hasn't stopped at all. all it was really for was so that those going into the food chain could be traced and have meds recorded. however, the one advantage of a passport is that you can sign it to say that the horse can never be slaughtered for human consumption. all mine are signed.

my nana used to cook horse meat for my grandad during the war. we had a shop in our town that sold only horse meat for alot of years. i personally wouldn't knowingly eat it unless i was starving but i have no problem with those who do eat it. it is just meat once it's on a plate afterall. my friend loves pigs dearly but she still eats bacon. but no-one will be eating one of my horses for sure.

needles


So, I guess that means no Filet of Filly for me, eh? Just teasing!

Seriously, I admire your conscientious and sensitive breeding methods, and wish more practiced the same. It's an exhausting business pumping out foal after foal, whose futures are less than safe or secure.

Can I come back as one of your horses next time around? I wouldn't mind a little good care for a while!

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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 11/30/2011 4:46:56 PM   
needlesandpins


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Duskypearls


quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

i have horses and have bred pure arabians in the past. unlike the huge studs who breed from their mares every year and cover anything that breathes, i would only breed at most two in one year. my mares would breed every other year at the most and sometimes had upto 4 years off. all my mares have stayed with me until i have lost them all bar one who is now 20. i had my stallion from 18months and knew him from being concieved. sadly i lost him at thebeginning of last year and i miss him every day. all of my youngsters were bred to do a job and they all do. they all won in the show ring as yearlings and were kept until at least two years old. most were over four before being advertised so that they had all the training they needed. all do either endurance or show jumping and were sold to the home and not the money.

it's a huge investment to rear horses like that. sadly it's not how most are raised. colts that should have been gelded are sold to people with no money and they breed from them because it came from a top stud running 100 mares. all my boys were gelded before sale. most colts never see a field again as they can't be turned out just anywhere. i've been lucky to always have had somewhere to turn my boys out.

the uk shut down all the places where horses were slaughtered for the meat trade but we are huge exporters to france. i must say that since all the slaughter houses were shut down the market has become swamped with horses that no-one wants. unfortunately though, those that are exported are not treat well. they are crammed into lorries together with no food or water. they are often traumatised and injured when they get where they are going. the eu made britain have passports for every equine in the country. there was alot of shyte about it stopping abuse and horses being stollen which hasn't stopped at all. all it was really for was so that those going into the food chain could be traced and have meds recorded. however, the one advantage of a passport is that you can sign it to say that the horse can never be slaughtered for human consumption. all mine are signed.

my nana used to cook horse meat for my grandad during the war. we had a shop in our town that sold only horse meat for alot of years. i personally wouldn't knowingly eat it unless i was starving but i have no problem with those who do eat it. it is just meat once it's on a plate afterall. my friend loves pigs dearly but she still eats bacon. but no-one will be eating one of my horses for sure.

needles


So, I guess that means no Filet of Filly for me, eh? Just teasing!

Seriously, I admire your conscientious and sensitive breeding methods, and wish more practiced the same. It's an exhausting business pumping out foal after foal, whose futures are less than safe or secure.

Can I come back as one of your horses next time around? I wouldn't mind a little good care for a while!


yep yep, sure thing lol.

i think that if it doesn't hurt to part with them then you shouldn't breed them in the first place. when my ex and i split we ended up dividing the horses we had left and he sold my huge show hunter mare to a novice family for their 14yr old daughter. a totally unsuitable sale that i would never have made but am now picking up the pieces for. i felt it was my duty to make sure they all had good homes. it would seem his moral stance on that hitched a ride with his thou shall not be a cheating, lying twat morals.

needles

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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 11/30/2011 5:00:42 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


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I would have absolutely no problem with horse meat being sold provided it was raised humanely and slaughtered humanely.

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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 11/30/2011 6:35:37 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I don't love the idea either.  But this weekend, I spent $290 a ton on hay.  It was $240 a ton in July, and $175.00 a year ago.  There are going to be more and more people looking for options for their unwanted horses.  I would rather see humane, local slaughterhouses, than horses dumped in the woods or starving to death in some stall.  





Here's my question, if anyone knows...

Would horse meat be more affordable, or considered a "delicacy" that only the wealthy could afford? I get everyone's concerns regarding the slaugherhouses. For many it would be the equivalent of killing a loved pet.

But we have a serious problem in this country with the poor's ability to buy quality food. I believe that part of the obesity issues among the poor is that they live on pasta. Meat is a luxury that often can't be afforded, along with fresh produce.

There used to be an organization called Angel Food Ministries that helped this problem a lot with affordable food, but they recently shut down.

I don't want to make this a discussion about poverty or derail the thread. I'm also not looking for a bunch of people to talk about how the poor abuse the system or use their food stamps to buy lobster.

But if this issue, the one of making horse meat a viable protein available for purchase while at the same time, improving the conditions that horses are raised (as LaT suggested), and minimize problems that seem to exist with the current situation for horses, could it not be something that would be doubly beneficial?

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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 11/30/2011 7:09:53 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

The other thing that has caused the amount of horses to skyrocket is Premarin. You need to keep breeding mares to make this drug. You certainly don't need good quality horses, just sheer amounts. Then of course, you have all those worn out mares and unwanted foals to dispose of.


Not quite what I would have said but interesting. They say abuse, I wonder about that. First of all what is needed is the urine, and they supposedly cite lack of access to water. If I want an animal to piss I know to give it water. Four teats or two, it does not put out any liquid unless you put some in.

But I also wonder how it is coillected. What are they catheterized ? They are probably kept in tiny stalls like veal.

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< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 11/30/2011 7:15:25 PM >

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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 12/1/2011 3:17:07 AM   
needlesandpins


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horse meat will be the new venison. it won't flood the market straight away so will be high priced. horses are not like cattle and to keep them weighty takes alot off feed. there is a company near me that used to be a slaughterhouse for horses and used to breed shire horses. the biggest breed for lb'age. the other problem is that horses take 4yrs to reach maturity......although i guess younger meat is going to have its appeal and price tag to match.

needles

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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 12/1/2011 4:16:29 AM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aara


we humans are made to eat meat! and i'd love to tie down one of those little skinny white bitches and forced feed her a huge meaty double quarter-pounder with cheese, bacon, tomato, swiss cheese, mushrooms, and eveything else. or a huge 24 oz stake, hot and juicy off the grill cook to mid rare, with shrimp topped on it with garlic cheese, and loaded cheese and mac!


Really? That's why medical problems from consuming too much meat skyrocket?

I don't eat red meat because it doesn't agree with my system at all, it literally has me dazed with mild signs of poisoning, but I also don't eat it because I disagree with the way animals are treated when it comes to mass meat production, the occasional chicken comes from a farmer who raises them and they can peck around outside, is not raised in a tiny cage.

I'd rather be a skinny, healty white bitch than sick and obese from eating something that is bad for me, and if some bitch would try to force feed me meat, she'd be looking into a set of dentures ASAP, but I hear hospital beds can be quite comfy and during the time the bones heal, she would have time to think about the error of her ways.

Personally I have no problem with people who eat meat, I just don't, my other half used to eat a lot of meat and about a year ago decided to lean a bit more towards my diet and figured out how nice a lot of vegetarian dishes are, as a result he lost 30 kilos, is now in great shape, his blood pressure is excellent, his acid reflux has disappeared, he never felt better. He still has meat, just not twice a day, more like twice a week and it comes from a local butcher who only offers free ranged, local meat. He assured me that there is a world of difference between a steak from the butcher and one from the supermarket, it terms of flavour and texture.

My main problem (apart from the fact that my body won't tolerate meat), is the way it's raised and the conditions in the slaughter houses, in case an animal is raised for consumption, at least let it have a life an a death that is as painless as possible, without being carted around for days.

Back to the topic, yes, I absolutely agree with "hose meat", preferable if they get a painless death than long suffering, additionally I think horse meat might be healthier than pork and the horses are possibly less contaminated with antibiotics - those are usually given to all sorts cattle, not to reduce infections but because it makes them gain weight quicker.

I'm not against meat consumption but I do wish the animals would be treated a bit better, there seems to be a trend of people just eating too much meat and if the animals aren't healthy and killed under stress, you consume about everything they've been treated with including the stress hormones that are released.

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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 12/1/2011 6:32:21 AM   
LaTigresse


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Excellent post Lady C. As much as I love beef and pork, we've cut down on our consumption of it dramatically. Adult humans, especially here in the U.S. tend to eat far too much of it. We do not need it in nearly the quantities we are eating it.

I cannot remember the last time I ate a steak or a burger, but I love both. It's an occasional treat rather than a constant. Now I tend to use meat in much smaller quantities as in soups, stir fry, casseroles, etc.rather than as the entire main course.


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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 12/1/2011 6:57:45 AM   
Iamsemisweet


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The thing is, if agribusiness gets involved, horses will be raised just as cruelly as cattle, chickens and pigs. I think there will be a lot of outrage about that

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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 12/1/2011 7:03:51 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

The thing is, if agribusiness gets involved, horses will be raised just as cruelly as cattle, chickens and pigs. I think there will be a lot of outrage about that


In many parts of the world horses already are raised cruelly. I drive past a place, twice a day, every day I leave home that is hideous. Most beef cattle have a better life.

When I did more work in rescue, we constantly saw horses that spent years locked in a stall with no foot care, the only option for some was to put them down. All over the U.S. there are facilities where horses spend most of their day, locked in a box stall. How is that not cruel??? Horses are herd animals, meant to roam, run, play. Not be locked up in small cell. But it happens everywhere. No different than hogs in a hog confinement building.


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 12/1/2011 7:06:17 AM >


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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 12/1/2011 7:13:52 AM   
Iamsemisweet


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I've seen the same thing, yes horses live in cruel conditions, sometimes. However, like you said, rescue groups step in and cruelty laws apply. If horses are raised commercially for food, the difference will be scale.

I doubt that horse meat will be particularly affordable as a protein source. They are not very efficient feeders.

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Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 12/1/2011 8:17:56 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I've seen the same thing, yes horses live in cruel conditions, sometimes. However, like you said, rescue groups step in and cruelty laws apply. If horses are raised commercially for food, the difference will be scale.

I doubt that horse meat will be particularly affordable as a protein source. They are not very efficient feeders.


Honestly I am not trying to be argumentative but it really is more than 'sometimes'. Some of the spiffiest facilities are at the core, the cruelest. And very rarely do rescue groups intervene. They are understaffed and funded. AND.....in many areas like here, the perps are protected by the very same laws that protect puppy mills and any other farmer. They are just considered livestock.

Horses are 'cool'. Many, if not most of people that get horses do not have any concept of proper care of the animal. They under estimate the expense or they go the opposite direction and try to treat them like a lap dog that can be kenneled (another peeve of mine) for most of the day. Locked up until they want to play with it. Paying someone they generally know nothing about to make sure it gets fed and cared for.

Don't even get me started on the crap I saw in 'good' boarding facilities. Horses that were never out of their stall, ever. Unless mommy brought junior out to ride once or twice a year.

My point is this. Just because a horse has the essentials for basic health like most in a boarding stable do, does not make it more humane. Yet it is virtually the same existence as many puppy mills, large pork producing facilities, and large chicken facilities. Keeping a horse in a stall all day and night is not illegal or considered inhuman by animal rescue people. Yet we scream bloody murder about people doing it to our meat animals and in puppy mills.

At the bottom end of the spectrum, people that keep them in poor conditions and poor health, I have seen far far more abuse and neglect of horses........basically a fiscally worthless animal unless it is really something special.......than I have ever seen of any meat animal.

The bottom line is that IF the animal becomes fiscally viable, over all they will end up being treated BETTER because they have a dollar value. The owners will have a viable reason to keep them in good health.......money.

As for feeding......most in my area are treated the exact same as the cattle on the farm. No difference in how they are fed. Primarily pasture and hay. Most horses are physically mature at 2-3 years, depending on breed even younger. Not much different than cattle.


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 12/1/2011 8:21:10 AM >


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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 12/1/2011 8:47:04 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
those that are exported are not treat well. they are crammed into lorries together with no food or water. they are often traumatised and injured when they get where they are going.

Mammals ought only to be transported walking on their own feet.

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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 12/1/2011 8:59:34 AM   
littlewonder


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I've had horse meat. It does indeed have kind of a sweet taste. I grew up in a very rural, backwoods, amish-like part of the U.S. Eating horse meat during lean times was not unheard of. I have no problems with horse meat being sold in the U.S.

I'm not a big meat eater....it just doesn't agree with my system but I'd probably try it again.




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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 12/1/2011 9:12:52 AM   
Iamsemisweet


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I'm not trying to be argumentative either, laT, but I just don't agree with you. I have a hard time equating a lightly used horse in a boarding stable with a factory farm. Cattle have economic value, and yet conditions in feed lots are horrendous. Pigs in factory farms are even worse. For that matter, premarin mares are kept under horrendous conditions, despite having economic value. While I support horse slaughterhouses as an avenue to dispose of unwanted horses, I would hate to see horses factory farmed.

My other point is, I don't think they will be. Yes, horses and cattle are fed the same things, at least where you are. But cattle are ruminants, so they process their food more efficiently. Even so, that efficient meat production is why feed lot cattle are fed corn almost exclusively. Their bodies aren't particularly well designed to process it, but it puts on a lot of weight in a short time. I don't know that a horse could survive on an all corn diet, since their systems require a lot of roughage. Horses waste a tremendous amount of what they are fed, as you probably know from cleaning horse stalls. The more food it takes to produce a pound of flesh, the less economically viable for meat. Horses take a relatively large amount of food. So do cattle, when compared to some other animals.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 12/1/2011 9:33:18 AM   
LadyConstanze


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I can't imagine that horses can ever be raised for the value of the meat, the feeding costs are amazing, but it would be a way to not prolong the suffering of horses that are unwanted or neglected, If they'd be raised for consumption, they'd possibly would have to graze outside, stabling them and feeding them - the meat would be horrendously expensive.

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RE: Coming to a grocery store near you - filet of horse - 12/1/2011 10:05:14 AM   
needlesandpins


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I've seen the same thing, yes horses live in cruel conditions, sometimes. However, like you said, rescue groups step in and cruelty laws apply. If horses are raised commercially for food, the difference will be scale.

I doubt that horse meat will be particularly affordable as a protein source. They are not very efficient feeders.


As for feeding......most in my area are treated the exact same as the cattle on the farm. No difference in how they are fed. Primarily pasture and hay. Most horses are physically mature at 2-3 years, depending on breed even younger. Not much different than cattle.



no horse is physically mature at two years old and that is just a fact. even tb's will still continue to grow and add height. most of a horse's bulk is added between years three and 4+. it's a myth that race horses are physically mature at two and that is so that people don't have to feel guilty about running them into the ground. i've never had a youngster yet who hasn't added at least 3" in height from two onwards, and that is alot in horse terms. the largest horses may grow another 8" and continue to grow until 6-8yrs old. any horse that shoots up in height does not carry bulk weight as it's not possible to feed them to do so. mind you, a horse for meat won't need to have delicate joints and bone sheaths to take into consideration. let's face it, who cares if it can walk when it's soon going to be dead. i've worked for different studs as well as running my own, and worked in the racing industry. it's rare to find a horse that is his full height at two years old, let alone carrying the weight that the meat farmers will want.

i see the only way of getting a viable short term market going is by buying up horses that are going through the sale rings that don't have signed passports (although i'm not sure how that works in america). you'll probably find alot of the mustang round up horses in the market too.


here in the uk, mass produced cattle are fed extreemly high protein diets that horses can't eat. there are alot of factors to make horse meat a select product with the price tag to match. height for height, horses just don't carry the same muscle bulk that cattle do. with the prices of feed here there would have to be huge farms that are as self sufficient as possible.

still, i suppose it will give an avenue for all the over produces racehorses and large stud foals to go down.

needles
needles

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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